Did people receive the Holy Spirit and speak in tongues? Or did they speak in tongues ....?

[CoreIssue]

Simultaneous with the new birth, John 3. (An exception would be the disciples of John in Acts who had repented but had not heard all the glorious facts of the Gospel.)

Agree. They knew John's message for were not sure if Jesus was the one he was talking about.

After Pentecost in the short time after things changed rapidly. Tongues as proof declined in the gospel in faith became the standard.

Remember, Jews demand signs and Gentiles evidence.

 

[101G]

So everyone including Hitler and Al Capone had the Holy Spirit of which Faith is the fruit thereof?

yes, in needs, just like he allow his sun to shine on the good, the Just, as well as the bad, the unjust. he even let it shine on you.... (smile). (see matthews 5:45). he clothes the good and the bad. if not then he is not the CREATOR.

 

[Enoch111]

Right, the disciples spoke in tongues, and the devout Jews listening each HEARD what the disciples were saying in their own tongue. That in no way implies that the tongues were, in fact, those languages, but it was what they HEARD.

So it was merely an illusion, or a sleight-of-hand? Or a mis-reporting by Luke to be finally corrected in the 21st century by a so-called 1st century lady?

How can anyone come up with such bizarre interpretations, when Acts 2 tells us plainly that the apostles and disciples were speaking foreign languages supernaturally, and the foreigners gathered in Jerusalem were hearing their own specific languages from the mouths of unlearned Galileans? Or should we print out the entire second chapter of Acts again?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

So it was merely an illusion, or a sleight-of-hand? Or a mis-reporting by Luke to be finally corrected in the 21st century by a so-called 1st century lady?

How can anyone come up with such bizarre interpretations, when Acts 2 tells us plainly that the apostles and disciples were speaking foreign languages supernaturally, and the foreigners gathered in Jerusalem were hearing their own specific languages from the mouths of unlearned Galileans? Or should we print out the entire second chapter of Acts again?

It was what scripture says it was. 1 Corinthians 14:2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.

So how could they understand? By the supernatural gift of interpretation of tongues.

There was NO contradiction of scripture, but is as you have interpreted.

 

[Dave L]

yes, in needs, just like he allow his sun to shine on the good, the Just, as well as the bad, the unjust. he even let it shine on you.... (smile). (see matthews 5:45). he clothes the good and the bad. if not then he is not the CREATOR.

“and that we may be delivered from perverse and evil people. For not all have faith.” (2 Thessalonians 3:2) (NET)

 

[Dave L]

How many times is it necessary for Jesus to touch us in order to receive a complete healing and revelation from God?

"And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought.
And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.
After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly." Mark 8:23-25

This corresponds to what Paul also wrote here:

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." I Cor 13:12

This is the here a little, there a little also written about by the prophet Isaiah:

"But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken." Isaiah 28:13

One of the big differences between us is that I have faith according to scripture that I do not see through a glass darkly. But have that which is perfect, the complete word of God that Paul said would replace the revelatory gifts. And that I'm thoroughly furnished by scripture, as stated in 2 Timothy 3:16–17.

 

[Dave L]

If they do , then many of them are successful at quenching the Spirit even though the Apostle Paul has warned us:

"Quench not the Spirit." I Thess 5:19

Are we quenching the Spirit by ignoring scripture and chasing after extra-biblical revelations? As Charismatics are wont to do?

 

[Dave L]

so I can take this as you cannot give scripture.

Scripture is right in front of you. The apostles spoke in tongues to God alone, not to men. Paul tells us this. And the devout Jews heard them speak in their own native tongues which can only mean they too received the Holy Spirit and the gift of tongues interpretation.

 

[amadeus]

One of the big differences between us is that I have faith according to scripture that I do not see through a glass darkly. But have that which is perfect, the complete word of God that Paul said would replace the revelatory gifts. And that I'm thoroughly furnished by scripture, as stated in 2 Timothy 3:16–17.

I am glad that you have such confidence that you never stumble or misunderstand. I won't judge you on what you have claimed. That ultimately is between you and God.

 

[Dave L]

I am glad that you have such confidence that you never stumble or misunderstand. I won't judge you on what you have claimed. That ultimately is between you and God.

Scripture is the complete revelation that tongues and prophecy were only the fragments of. You need to spend more time in your bible and see for yourself.

 

[amadeus]

Are we quenching the Spirit by ignoring scripture and chasing after extra-biblical revelations? As Charismatics are wont to do?

If a person purposely ignores scripture when he knows it is supposed to apply to him, then quenching the Spirit is likely involved. As to extra-biblical revelations, in spite of your alleged personal experience, you can only definitely speak for yourself and if you are wrong in that you are also in trouble. I know that I have heard from God. You might call that extra-biblical but I would say it is good when it came from God.

Charismatics and/or Pentecostals make mistakes as do people who strive to follow the letter of scripture precisely. When anyone takes his eyes off of the Lord and/or stops seeking His face, he will makes mistakes as I see it in the eyes of God. As he approaches God his mistakes will diminish while God in him will increase:

"He must increase, but I must decrease." John 3:30

 

[amadeus]

Scripture is the complete revelation that tongues and prophecy were only the fragments of. You need to spend more time in your bible and see for yourself.

Time in the Bible can be a good thing, but in the wrong spirit, it will kill in the sense of murder which is not good:

"Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life
But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:" II Cor 3:7-8

The wrong spirit is what leads a person who is not seeking God's face is not led by the Holy Spirit. If more time were spent in the scriptures by me or by any one without the proper drinking of the Blood death would be the result. Murder it is called:

"Thou shalt not kill." Exodus 20:13

Murder that is...! Sometimes a person kills himself even though his body of flesh and bone and blood continues to walk and talk. People call them zombies.

 

[Dave L]

If a person purposely ignores scripture when he knows it is supposed to apply to him, then quenching the Spirit is likely involved. As to extra-biblical revelations, in spite of your alleged personal experience, you can only definitely speak for yourself and if you are wrong in that you are also in trouble. I know that I have heard from God. You might call that extra-biblical but I would say it is good when it came from God.

Charismatics and/or Pentecostals make mistakes as do people who strive to follow the letter of scripture precisely. When anyone takes his eyes off of the Lord and/or stops seeking His face, he will makes mistakes as I see it in the eyes of God. As he approaches God his mistakes will diminish while God in him will increase:

"He must increase, but I must decrease." John 3:30

Why the division between charismatics and the rest of the church?

 

[Dave L]

Time in the Bible can be a good thing, but in the wrong spirit, it will kill in the sense of murder which is not good:

"Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life
But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:" II Cor 3:7-8

The wrong spirit is what leads a person who is not seeking God's face is not led by the Holy Spirit. If more time were spent in the scriptures by me or by any one without the proper drinking of the Blood death would be the result. Murder it is called:

"Thou shalt not kill." Exodus 20:13

Murder that is...! Sometimes a person kills himself even though his body of flesh and bone and blood continues to walk and talk. People call them zombies.

But the letter of what killeth? It's the letter of the written word. Not solved by extra biblical revelations taking it's place.

 

[amadeus]

Why the division between charismatics and the rest of the church?

If there is a division, God did not cause it. Men did. Those who cause division from God are in error, but until we know God's position we should all have a care in being too critical of others.

 

[farouk]

Scripture is the complete revelation that tongues and prophecy were only the fragments of. You need to spend more time in your bible and see for yourself.

Going back to the partial and provisional when one already has the fulness of revelation does not make sense.

 

[amadeus]

But the letter of what killeth? It's the letter of the written word. Not solved by extra biblical revelations taking it's place.

The unquickened scripture is NOT the Word of God no mattered what man wrote it down even if he was under God's inspiration when he wrote it.

 

[Dave L]

If there is a division, God did not cause it. Men did. Those who cause division from God are in error, but until we know God's position we should all have a care in being too critical of others.

I don't understand if the charismatic experience is valid, why it didn't happen spontaneously to all of Christendom as it did in Acts. But instead, it was conjured up by a couple of questionable fringe groups in the early 1900s.

 

[Dave L]

The unquickened scripture is NOT the Word of God no mattered what man wrote it down even if he was under God's inspiration when he wrote it.

It's the letter of the word Paul speaks of. The Spirit brings life to the written word. He doesn't circumvent it as you see today.

 

[mjrhealth]

Scripture is the complete revelation that tongues and prophecy were only the fragments of. You need to spend more time in your bible and see for yourself.

you should spend more time in Christ, than you might be set free..