Did The Bible Or The Papacy Transfer The Sabbath Rest To Sunday?

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BreadOfLife

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Loyola's quotes are all over the internet...why on earth would you look for it just in this thread? Is this all of a sudden a Jesuit web site? Am I in the wrong place?
Because YOU said the following, Einstein:
"I already quoted Loyola, saying if that a superior, aka pope, says something is black, . . ."

Were you LYING again??
Would you mind showing me that quote - or or should I just expose your fraudulence once again??
 
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brakelite

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The rest I’m in is everyday is the sabbath
Is there a scriptural reference for that concept, or is it something people just say as an idea they like to avoid any idea of commitment? Like I said above, Jesus didn't
I don’t want to bring anyone under bondage. He says break every chain.
This is what I was referring to above...Jesus Himself said, the Sabbath is made for man...are you suggesting that Jesus made the Sabbath rest deliberately to be a burden? Or a chain to somehow restrict him? A chain for man? Do you believe I want to bring anyone under bondage? What is bondage? When I read the Ten Commandments from Exodus 20. the very first words we read is ...I am the Lord thy Godd, who hath brought the out of the house of bondage...surely you don't think God brought Israel out of the house of bondage to sin and slavery, to pit them into greater bondage to His law? Did He say or even intend that Israel be released from bondage and slavery to others, to be chained by observing a Sabbath rest 1 out of every 7 days and be servants to the living God, or is it as Jesus said...know the Truth and the Truth shall set you free?
Now while I agree that we rest in Christ for our salvation and well-being, that does not constitute nor is a replacement for remembering just one specific day that Jesus Himself made holy...sanctified...and blessed...for man. And on that one day, He asks us to cease from our ordinary everyday secular labour. Because it is holy. We don't make it holy, just as you cannot make every day holy; we are to keep it holy, by not working. Jesus never changed that one day to every day, nor did He take the day aside altogether.
 
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brakelite

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Because YOU said the following, Einstein:
"I already quoted Loyola, saying if that a superior, aka pope, says something is black, . . ."

Were you LYING again??
Would you mind showing me that quote - or or should I just expose your fraudulence once again??
Here is the original quote from Loyola...which I transcribed previously...from memory so maybe my 'quote' was somewhat transliterated or perhaps paraphrased....we ought even to hold as a fixed principle that what I see white I believe to be black, if the superior authorities define it to be so.
This 'fixed principle", has resulted in blind obedience to the Jesuit general who himself is 150% dedicated to the destruction of Protestantism throughout the earth...and the destruction of any government that supports it by not actively agitating against it. And don't bother asking for proof. Competent historians have written about the Jesuits over many centuries, and while attempts have been made to silence them, if one is genuinely interested in truth, there is ample evidence out there...do your own homework....my reluctance to transcribe screeds and creeds of information rom history books does not prove there is not any evidence ...it just means I have respect for the authors of those books and for the administrators of this site.
One has to ask, why is it that Jesuits (the order) has been banned from nearly every country on the planet, even banned by the Vatican itself at one stage. Whatever evil they perpetrated to warrant such reaction to their activities, is without doubt the fruit of Loyola's teachings.
 
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brakelite

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The rest I’m in is everyday is the sabbath. I don’t want to bring anyone under bondage. He says break every chain.
BTW, it was the Catholic church which changed the day from the 7th day to the first....it was not Jesus, none of the apostles, nor scripture in any form. Sunday was promoted by Rome, first as an institution of pagan Rome in their observance of Mithraism...sun god...then out of convenience and as a means by which to encourage pagans into the church, by the papal apostasy, adopted this child of paganism and baptised it. There are numerous sources that confirm this, and numerous sources even from Protestant sunday keepers which claim the Sabbath as still being the true Lord's Day.
 

mjrhealth

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Is there a scriptural reference for that concept, or is it something people just say as an idea they like to avoid any idea of commitment? Like I said above, Jesus didn't

Heb 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
Heb 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
Heb 4:5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
Heb 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Heb 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
Heb 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Heb 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

which is why many keep teh sabbath, because of unbelief.

the bit about

Rom_9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

and

Gal_3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident:
for, The just shall live by faith.
Gal 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
Gal 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

because the Jews

Gal_3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

for in teh end

Php_3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

but when a man believes his religion is from God when it is not because it is of man, what do you do, Mother and daughter duking it out, who is teh prettiest/ ugliest...
 
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brakelite

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Once again NO ANSWER. :(

I suspect you don't even know the history of how you got that light bible you quote from and what used to be considered scripture until the Catholic Church told you what was scripture.

Since you are unable to articulate a reason for your beliefs....I will move on.

Moving on Mary
While the pagan Constantine was institutionalising and politicizing the church in Rome, and thus contributing to its eventual apostate downfall through its adulterous relationships with the kings of the earth..while Jerome was translating the Hebrew and Greek scriptures into the Latin Vulgate and being influenced by Alexandrian Gnostics, where do you think people like Patricks forbears got their scriptures from, because the Celtic church existed before Jerome was around. Where do you think the church in Asia got their scriptures from, churches who had absolutely no contact ever with Rome, or Roman missionaries? Where did the scriptures come from the Waldensian churches in northern Italy and southern France and Spain used at a time when they were being persecuted by the Roman church for teaching doctrines that rejected Papal authority? Where did the scriptures come from that the churches in Assyria, India, Afghanistan, Persia, and China use...centuries before Rome even knew they existed? Answer...NOT ROME.
Long before Rome was established as a political entity the church was well established in places like Antioch. There in Antioch a man called Lucian, who Jerome hated because Lucian chose to translate the scriptures into the common language of the time...and these translations were copied and copied and spread across the face of the earth...Britain...Asia...and the far East...all without a single finger of any Roman prelate being offered in assistance. No Mary, Rome did not give us the Bible. The KJV came form that line of translations that originated in Antioch...not Rome...and were far more accurate than Jerome's Latin bible that was used only by the elites in the hierarchal church but which was over-ridden by tradition and superstition. Which is why Rome persecuted anyone not being governed by the same traditions...true righteousness has ever been opposed by true evil.
 
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brakelite

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Heb 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
Heb 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
Heb 4:5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
Heb 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Heb 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
Heb 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Heb 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

which is why many keep teh sabbath, because of unbelief.

the bit about

Rom_9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

and

Gal_3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident:
for, The just shall live by faith.
Gal 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
Gal 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

because the Jews

Gal_3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

for in teh end

Php_3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

but when a man believes his religion is from God when it is not because it is of man, what do you do, Mother and daughter duking it out, who is teh prettiest/ ugliest...
Yep, sure, one can place whatever connotation he wishes upon scripture to suit his own end. But what you are left with is something that simply is not going to go away, no matter how hard you reason against it. There is a seventh day that is still holy, sanctified, and blessed of its Creator. It is still a sacred day. No matter what you do with it, it is still there. Written in stone. No man can change that, nor can any man argue against it. No where in any of the quotes above...nor any other quote you could produce, suggests that the day itself is no longer holy.
What you do with that is of course up to you. I cannot make you change...I cannot make you decide on way or the other, and nor can my church...that is not my intent here, but merely to show you that there is more depth to understand scripture than the superficial and human reasoning that is the only foundation for rejecting obedience to God's laws. Antinomianism has no place in the Cristian faith.
 

mjrhealth

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Yep, sure, one can place whatever connotation he wishes upon scripture to suit his own end. But what you are left with is something that simply is not going to go away, no matter how hard you reason against it. There is a seventh day that is still holy, sanctified, and blessed of its Creator. It is still a sacred day. No matter what you do with it, it is still there. Written in stone. No man can change that, nor can any man argue against it. No where in any of the quotes above...nor any other quote you could produce, suggests that the day itself is no longer holy.
What you do with that is of course up to you. I cannot make you change...I cannot make you decide on way or the other, and nor can my church...that is not my intent here, but merely to show you that there is more depth to understand scripture than the superficial and human reasoning that is the only foundation for rejecting obedience to God's laws. Antinomianism has no place in the Cristian faith.
NO brakelite I dont have to reason anything, reason has nothing to do with truth, plainly and simply all you do is of the flesh, you seek to condemn the whole world by the law just as BOL seeks to condemn the whole world through His religion, and of course you yours.

..I cannot make you decide on way or the other, and nor can my church.

whole point, your church your man made religion filled with its own rules and doctrines. It is plainly as you have put it, By grace we are saved through faith, and teh law has nothing to do with salvation, just gives men the right to boast.

As for the sabbath, as Jesus put it,

Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Mat 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

that is why we who are in Him have no need for the sabbath, we rest in Him from our own works, the law is all about you working so you cant even keep the sabbath because you never rest.

Heb_4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Heb_4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
 

Waiting on him

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Is there a scriptural reference for that concept, or is it something people just say as an idea they like to avoid any idea of commitment? Like I said above, Jesus didn't

This is what I was referring to above...Jesus Himself said, the Sabbath is made for man...are you suggesting that Jesus made the Sabbath rest deliberately to be a burden? Or a chain to somehow restrict him? A chain for man? Do you believe I want to bring anyone under bondage? What is bondage? When I read the Ten Commandments from Exodus 20. the very first words we read is ...I am the Lord thy Godd, who hath brought the out of the house of bondage...surely you don't think God brought Israel out of the house of bondage to sin and slavery, to pit them into greater bondage to His law? Did He say or even intend that Israel be released from bondage and slavery to others, to be chained by observing a Sabbath rest 1 out of every 7 days and be servants to the living God, or is it as Jesus said...know the Truth and the Truth shall set you free?
Now while I agree that we rest in Christ for our salvation and well-being, that does not constitute nor is a replacement for remembering just one specific day that Jesus Himself made holy...sanctified...and blessed...for man. And on that one day, He asks us to cease from our ordinary everyday secular labour. Because it is holy. We don't make it holy, just as you cannot make every day holy; we are to keep it holy, by not working. Jesus never changed that one day to every day, nor did He take the day aside altogether.
If I observe sabbath I’m proclaiming salvation through works
 

epostle

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Everyone named in the Bible.
And to you, they are the ONLY "true believers" in any time and place, until 1517!!! Isn't that how you read history?
So there were no Christians on the planet after the death of the last person named in the Bible, but suddenly appeared for the so called "reformation. I know about your landmark Baptist remnant theory. You know, the theory of the remnant that no one has any names for.
 
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brakelite

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NO brakelite I dont have to reason anything, reason has nothing to do with truth, plainly and simply all you do is of the flesh, you seek to condemn the whole world by the law just as BOL seeks to condemn the whole world through His religion, and of course you yours.



whole point, your church your man made religion filled with its own rules and doctrines. It is plainly as you have put it, By grace we are saved through faith, and teh law has nothing to do with salvation, just gives men the right to boast.

As for the sabbath, as Jesus put it,

Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Mat 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

that is why we who are in Him have no need for the sabbath, we rest in Him from our own works, the law is all about you working so you cant even keep the sabbath because you never rest.

Heb_4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Heb_4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
I am bemused by this very common argument used against the observance of Sabbath; that is that ” Jesus is now my Sabbath rest” because this or that one has ceased from his own works. The insinuation is that those who do observe the Sabbath as a day of rest according to the commandment, have not ceased from their own works.
My question is this, though it seems obvious to me: how can anyone observe the day as a Sabbath, without ceasing from his/her own works? What Christian in his right mind would attempt to observe the Sabbath as a means by which to make an impression upon God, when scripture clearly says such a thing will not work? No one I know observes the day as a means to salvation, or to make a boast of his own righteousness.

As a corollary to this, can we observe any commandment without ceasing from our own works? Does not death to self and the infilling of the Holy Spirit create in us the image of Christ? Is this not called sanctification? And because we are transformed into the image of Christ, would it also not be in conformity to the law that Christ wrote on the tables of stone, and which He now writes on the tables of our hearts? We can’t accomplish this without surrender ; without ceasing from our own works. Sanctification is simply that. The changing of the life through the grace and power of God to make it conformable to God’s standards of righteousness. And Ezekiel tells us that by being willing to observe the Sabbath, the day, we are acknowledging that it is God Who is doing the sanctifying, and not we ourselves. (Ezek. 20:12) So by keeping the Sabbath, it is actually a sign we have indeed ceased from our own works, and trusting in Christ’s working in us His righteousness.
 
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brakelite

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If I observe sabbath I’m proclaiming salvation through works
Why? Do you resist adultery or pornography because you are proclaiming salvation by works? What if you are tempted to lie or cheat on your taxes and you choose to remain honest...working for salvation? Shunning idols...working for salvation? Working for a living instead of selling dope...working for salvation?
 

BreadOfLife

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Here is the original quote from Loyola...which I transcribed previously...from memory so maybe my 'quote' was somewhat transliterated or perhaps paraphrased....we ought even to hold as a fixed principle that what I see white I believe to be black, if the superior authorities define it to be so.
This 'fixed principle", has resulted in blind obedience to the Jesuit general who himself is 150% dedicated to the destruction of Protestantism throughout the earth...and the destruction of any government that supports it by not actively agitating against it. And don't bother asking for proof. Competent historians have written about the Jesuits over many centuries, and while attempts have been made to silence them, if one is genuinely interested in truth, there is ample evidence out there...do your own homework....my reluctance to transcribe screeds and creeds of information rom history books does not prove there is not any evidence ...it just means I have respect for the authors of those books and for the administrators of this site.
One has to ask, why is it that Jesuits (the order) has been banned from nearly every country on the planet, even banned by the Vatican itself at one stage. Whatever evil they perpetrated to warrant such reaction to their activities, is without doubt the fruit of Loyola's teachings.
If this is the actually quote from St. Ignatius of Loyola that you find so abhorrent - I can show you millions of solders who followed this rule into battle and SAVED the lives of their fellow comrades in arms. This is pretty much the STANDARD by which those in the military live.

Why is it "okay" for them to have this kind of allegiance when they are fighting for YOUR freedom??
Why are they not "evil"??
 

Jun2u

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I still say the answer to the OP is found in posts 18 & 19.

Below are two essential questions I would like to post to anyone but especially to @Brakelight who is a SDA.

Question 1 Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man. What is the significance?

Please don't say because it is commanded to keep it holy.

Question 2 Why is the punishment of death so severe just by picking up sticks on the Sabbath?

Please don't say because it is commanded not to do any kind of work.

HINT: These questions can only be answered and discerned spiritually.

I could be wrong, but it would really, really be a surprise if these questions can be answered by those who posts here at least in these forums.

To God Be The Glory
 

mjrhealth

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I am bemused by this very common argument used against the observance of Sabbath; that is that ” Jesus is now my Sabbath rest” because this or that one has ceased from his own works. The insinuation is that those who do observe the Sabbath as a day of rest according to the commandment, have not ceased from their own works.
My question is this, though it seems obvious to me: how can anyone observe the day as a Sabbath, without ceasing from his/her own works? What Christian in his right mind would attempt to observe the Sabbath as a means by which to make an impression upon God, when scripture clearly says such a thing will not work? No one I know observes the day as a means to salvation, or to make a boast of his own righteousness.

As a corollary to this, can we observe any commandment without ceasing from our own works? Does not death to self and the infilling of the Holy Spirit create in us the image of Christ? Is this not called sanctification? And because we are transformed into the image of Christ, would it also not be in conformity to the law that Christ wrote on the tables of stone, and which He now writes on the tables of our hearts? We can’t accomplish this without surrender ; without ceasing from our own works. Sanctification is simply that. The changing of the life through the grace and power of God to make it conformable to God’s standards of righteousness. And Ezekiel tells us that by being willing to observe the Sabbath, the day, we are acknowledging that it is God Who is doing the sanctifying, and not we ourselves. (Ezek. 20:12) So by keeping the Sabbath, it is actually a sign we have indeed ceased from our own works, and trusting in Christ’s working in us His righteousness.
But you havnt that is the whole thing because keeping the law is all your own works, it isnt of faith, so you see you dishonor God by you unbelief. Why do you think it says

1Ti_1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

because you have not put on the righteousness of Christ,, is the righteousness of Christ sin, will Christ lead a man to sin, does love cause a man to steal?? No that is why those in Christ dont need the law, but unbelievers and sinners do, but

Joh 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
Joh 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Joh 16:9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
 

Waiting on him

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Why? Do you resist adultery or pornography because you are proclaiming salvation by works? What if you are tempted to lie or cheat on your taxes and you choose to remain honest...working for salvation? Shunning idols...working for salvation? Working for a living instead of selling dope...working for salvation?
Your putting a fig leaf over his garment
 

marksman

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Actually, the very early Christians moved it to Sunday because they shared synagogues with Jews. But the Jews used them on Saturday so they were not available to them.
So untrue it is unbelievable. There is no mention ANYWHERE in scripture that it was moved to Sunday.

The New Testament church was made up of Jews and Jewish proselytes so meeting on Sunday would be a foreign concept to them. In addition, Jews worked on Sunday so they would not have had anytime to meet on that day.
 

marksman

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I believe that Heb. 4 shows us that every day is now the Sabbath as we rest in Christ's finished work on a daily basis. The "Sabbath" was a type for the reality.

No it doesn't. The Sabbath and the Sabbath rest of Hebrews four are two entirely different things.
 

marksman

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Well for once our papal apologist is correct. The first day of the week became the Christian sabbath while the apostles were alive, also called the Lord's Day in Revelation.
No it didn't. There is no mention of the Sabbath day being Sunday anywhere in the New Testament.
 

marksman

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And the reason was simple. The Christians met in synagogues. But the Jews use the synagogues on Saturday for Judaism.

No altar or symbols.

The early Christians wore the symbol of the fish, meaning fisher of men, to identify themselves to other Christians. Not as something holy or sacred.
So going from house to house meant going from synagogue to synagogue?