Discerning : The Water Cults

[Marymog]

Like all who are involved with the cult of mary, you have only "traditions" and "fragments" found in non-accepted texts.

You reject tradition. Scripture says to hold fast to them.

YOU have some explaining to do kiddo.....

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I have answered. I thought you read post’s #486 #515 #523 #524. That’s four times. How many more times would you like me to say it?

Post 486

Scripture doesn’t say “the doing will come” after you start believing. If it does say that then please show me since I can’t find it.

So what happens to the person when the doing doesn’t come? Scripture makes that clear; faith without works is dead. You can’t have one or the other. If you don’t do the works, the faith means nothing; it’s a DEAD faith.

no answer

Post 515

Dear EG,

Hold, hold on cowgirl. Pull your horses back!! I never said that one can have faith and NEVER do any work. If I said that please give me the post# its in and I will correct myself.

What we are discussing is your teaching that one will automatically start doing good works once they start believing. That teaching CAN NOT be found in Scripture. What can be found in Scripture is that one SHOULD do good works once they start believing because "faith without (the) works is dead". If they DON'T do the good works, their faith is useless, gone, DEAD!!!

You mentioned Paul and Ephesians 2 as your proof text. In other passages Paul states that salvation also has present and future aspects! So the kind of salvation Paul is discussing in Ephesians 2:8-9 is initial salvation. It is the kind which we received when we first came to God and were justified, not the kind of salvation we are now receiving (1 Peter 1:8-9, Phil. 2:12) or the kind we will one day receive (Rom. 13:11, 1 Cor. 3:15, 5:5).

no answer

post 523

Thanks EG,

Well, I asked you to give me the post# in which I said what you alleged I said. You didn't/couldn't do that sooooooo are you going to at least acknowledge that fact? I am not asking for an apology. Just an acknowledgment that I didn't say what you thought I said. It's hard to have a conversation with someone when they make false allegations.

No rabbit trail from this girl. I have made it very clear what Scripture teaches and what I believe. Truly though, it is not a matter of what you or I believe. It is a matter of what Scripture says. I believe Faith without works is DEAD! If all you have is faith, with no good works EG, how can you be saved with a dead faith?

Not everyone who says Lord, Lord, will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but rather he who does the will of my Father" (Matthew 7:21) That means doing the will of God is a necessary component of one's faith. Do you think it is Gods will that we do good works?

Having only faith, with no works, means giving God lip service. God demands actions from us, not just lip service. ("This generation honors me with their lips, while their heart is far from me", Matthew 15:18). For you see EG, a man is justified by works, and not by faith alone (James 2:24).

I hope you are now very clear on what Scripture teaches about faith AND works.

Bible Study Mary

No answer

post 524

Thanks JBF,

That makes sense. A person of faith should be doing good works. I know many Christians who have faith, believe in Him and regularly go to Church. They don't do good works. Do you know anyone like that?

I guess the difference is the one who does the good works has a true, deep abiding faith and the one who doesn't do the good works only has faith. Does that make sense?

I wonder if both will obtain salvation.....

Once again no answer

I challenge anyone to show where you said yes or no to my question

once again, do you believe anyone can have true faith and never do a work?

is it to hard to say yes or no?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Dear EG,

Hmmmm.....I don’t know if you are lying to make yourself feel better or if you are trying to make me look bad. You made a false allegation against me. I called you out on it and THIS is your response???? Another lie (that I didn’t answer you). Deeply concerning...

Praying for you.......Mary

I am just trying to get you to answer a simple question

your the one trying to fight it not me

you declaired I can not find something in scripture, if you would answer my question you would prove you believe the same way I do, and hence your charge against me would be false.

actually, I think the issue is your afraid you may have to prove I am right, and you were wrong

unless you believe someone CAN have faith and never do a work, in which case it is worse than I thought

 

[Marymog]

Post 486


no answer

Post 515



no answer

post 523

No answer

post 524

Once again no answer

I challenge anyone to show where you said yes or no to my question

once again, do you believe anyone can have true faith and never do a work?

is it to hard to say yes or no?

EG.....your killing me here.

I can only repeat what I have said in all those posts of which you accuse me of “no answer”. I can only repeat what Scripture says: FAITH without works is dead. Since you do not understand what that means I will teach you. One can have faith but if they don’t do works that faith is dead. I will repeat this once again also: One can honor and worship Him with their lips but their heart can be far away from Him. Recognize that passage? Do you understand what it means?

How much clearer can I be????

What you have artfully dodged this entire time is your theory that if someone has faith they will automatically do good works. That teaching is not in Scripture. Scripture teaches opposite of that: When a person has FAITH and they don’t do works, that faith is dead. Even though a person honors and worships Him with their mouth their heart can still be far away from Him.

Sooooo are you ever going to apologize for your false allegation? Or are you going to pretend it didn’t happen?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

EG.....your killing me here.

I can only repeat what I have said in all those posts of which you accuse me of “no answer”. I can only repeat what Scripture says: FAITH without works is dead. Since you do not understand what that means I will teach you. One can have faith but if they don’t do works that faith is dead. I will repeat this once again also: One can honor and worship Him with their lips but their heart can be far away from Him. Recognize that passage? Do you understand what it means?

How much clearer can I be????

What you have artfully dodged this entire time is your theory that if someone has faith they will automatically do good works. That teaching is not in Scripture. Scripture teaches opposite of that: When a person has FAITH and they don’t do works, that faith is dead. Even though a person honors and worships Him with their mouth their heart can still be far away from Him.

Sooooo are you ever going to apologize for your false allegation? Or are you going to pretend it didn’t happen?

So you do not believe one can have true living faith and never have works?

Am I correct?

 

[Marymog]

So you do not believe one can have true living faith and never have works?

Am I correct?

Scripture doesn’t say “true living faith”! I don’t feel comfortable adding to Scripture and then commenting on what it doesn’t say. It only says faith without works is dead.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Scripture doesn’t say “true living faith”! I don’t feel comfortable adding to Scripture and then commenting on what it doesn’t say. It only says faith without works is dead.

So once again. You can not answer my question

a dead faith is no faith mary,

true living faith is a faith that works, ie it is not dead

You keep talking about dead faith, well the opposite of dead faith would be living faith

the word trinity is not in scripture yet you and your church claim it is truth even though it does not say the worda

so you trying to find exact words in scripture only to prove me wrong is quite amazing,

once again

do you believe one can have living faith (the opposite of dead faith) and never do one work.

 

[Marymog]

So once again. You can not answer my question

a dead faith is no faith mary,

true living faith is a faith that works, ie it is not dead

You keep talking about dead faith, well the opposite of dead faith would be living faith

the word trinity is not in scripture yet you and your church claim it is truth even though it does not say the worda

so you trying to find exact words in scripture only to prove me wrong is quite amazing,

once again

do you believe one can have living faith (the opposite of dead faith) and never do one work.

I have answered your question MULTIPLE times.

AND

You keep dodging the fact that you falsely accused me of something and have failed to make it right.

Based on those two facts I have no desire to continue with this conversation.

Praying for you...Mary

 

[justbyfaith]

unless you believe someone CAN have faith and never do a work, in which case it is worse than I thought

Why is it worse than you thought? Paul the apostle taught that someone can have faith and never do a work, in Romans 4:5-6.

Also, the thief on the cross is a prime example of someone who went to heaven because of faith and yet never did one good work.

What you have artfully dodged this entire time is your theory that if someone has faith they will automatically do good works. That teaching is not in Scripture.

Actually, it is (Ezekiel 36:27, Philippians 2:13).

Scripture teaches opposite of that: When a person has FAITH and they don’t do works, that faith is dead.

No, someone can have a living faith and yet not have works; in a situation where they receive Christ on their deathbed for example and never have the opportunity to do any good works; or, how about a situation where they are disabled and therefore have no ability to do certain good works? If someone has limited time I don't think God requires that a person do good works in order to obtain salvation.

Scripture doesn’t say “true living faith”!

It talks about a dead faith and the opposite of that is a living faith. If I have a faith that is not a dead faith, then I have a living faith. It is biblical terminology just as we say that "Trinity" is biblical terminology even though the word is not mentioned in the Bible, because the teaching is there.

 

[Marymog]

Why is it worse than you thought? Paul the apostle taught that someone can have faith and never do a work, in Romans 4:5-6.

Also, the thief on the cross is a prime example of someone who went to heaven because of faith and yet never did one good work.



Actually, it is (Ezekiel 36:27, Philippians 2:13).



No, someone can have a living faith and yet not have works; in a situation where they receive Christ on their deathbed for example and never have the opportunity to do any good works; or, how about a situation where they are disabled and therefore have no ability to do certain good works? If someone has limited time I don't think God requires that a person do good works in order to obtain salvation.



It talks about a dead faith and the opposite of that is a living faith. If I have a faith that is not a dead faith, then I have a living faith. It is biblical terminology just as we say that "Trinity" is biblical terminology even though the word is not mentioned in the Bible, because the teaching is there.

You do keep me entertained JBF......Thank you.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I have answered your question MULTIPLE times.

AND

You keep dodging the fact that you falsely accused me of something and have failed to make it right.

Based on those two facts I have no desire to continue with this conversation.

Praying for you...Mary

1 I never accused you of anything. You accused me
2 you have responded to my question like you always do. I asked a yes or no question. Not once have you said yes or
No. Like always you beat around the bush and never come straight out and answer. They cry that you did

thanks for another fun filled discussion that led to no where. I have been praying for you since I met you. I know one day God will break through

 

[justbyfaith]

You do keep me entertained JBF......Thank you.

My pleasure.

 

[Marymog]

1 I never accused you of anything. You accused me....

Here is what you accused me of saying: “That one can have faith and NEVER do any work“

That is a LIE. I never said that and you still haven’t owned up to it or apologized for it. Instead you attack. this is why I can’t go on communicating with you kiddo.

How sad for you. It shows your character.

Praying for you.....Mary

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Here is what you accused me of saying: “That one can have faith and NEVER do any work“

That is a LIE. I never said that and you still haven’t owned up to it or apologized for it. Instead you attack. this is why I can’t go on communicating with you kiddo.

How sad for you. It shows your character.

Praying for you.....Mary

Yet I have asked you that very same question how many times now, and you refuse to answer

don’t accuse me of saying things, then when I try to call you out and yourun away

I will try one more time

do you believe that one can have true faith and never work. Yes or no

if you continue to refuse to answer, you have basically proved you have falsely accused me. Because how can I false accuse you of something if you will NT even admit you don’t believe it or not?

 

[Marymog]

thanks for another fun filled discussion that led to no where. I have been praying for you since I met you. I know one day God will break through

Good morning EG,

God broke thru to me several years ago. I joined The Church and left the Protestant way of reading the Bible behind.

You know the Protestant way of reading the Bible: Anyone can read scripture and as long as they feel like the Holy Ghost guided them to the truth then it IS the truth....even though every Protestant denomination has a different truth from the same passage.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Good morning EG,

God broke thru to me several years ago. I joined The Church and left the Protestant way of reading the Bible behind.

You know the Protestant way of reading the Bible: Anyone can read scripture and as long as they feel like the Holy Ghost guided them to the truth then it IS the truth....even though every Protestant denomination has a different truth from the same passage.

is this why you will not answer my yes or no question? Because your afraid to think for yourself?

 

[BloodBought 1953]

I bring up Ezekiel 33:11-20 because it was instrumental in bringing me to repentance as concerning a specific besetting sin in my life.

That is how the Holy Spirit ministered to me...by showing me Ezekiel 33:11-20 in a moment when my heart would be open to what that scripture teaches us.

I think that the reason why you cannot receive the teaching of that scripture is because your heart isn't open to its teaching. Rather than receive the teaching, you would rather deflect; saying that it is to Israel and therefore it does not apply to you.

Well, "Israel" means "governed by God", so if you are governed by God it does apply to you.



All scripture is inspired of the Lord and is profitable for doctrine (2 Timothy 3:16).

True, of course.......much of New Testament Scripture is “profitable” because it shows how much of the Old Testament was stood on its head by the “ New and Better Promises Of God . The Cross changed almost everything.....”Inspired Scripture” shows how the Doctrines Of The Bible have changed for the better
Our Doctrines for today should be viewed through a lens of Grace—- NOT the lens Of Law .We no longer live in the “ Age Of Law” and it’s impossible demands......we live in the new , marvelous “Age Of Grace”
It is VERY “ Profitable” to compare Old Doctrines with New Doctrines.......like these—— we don’t give to God because we are FORCED to ( the old tithing system for example) ....we give because we WANT to .Its also a change of Doctrine , revealed by “ profitable Scripture” that we no longer have to forgive others to be forgiven ourselves......we are ALREADY FORGIVEN and “ that” is the New Doctrine thinking that is the impetus for forgiving others....we forgive because we WANT to , not because we HAVE to.....
It seems like the value of much Scripture is to show how that even though God does not change...His methods of dealing with Mankind have....

 

[Marymog]

is this why you will not answer my yes or no question? Because your afraid to think for yourself?

I did think for myself several years ago instead of believeing the every changing teachings of Protestantism. That is how I found The Church.

You think for yourself.....Joe at the Protestant church down the road thinks for himself.....Michelle who gathers with 5-7 of her best friends in her basement at her house church thinks for herself.....and all of you think you are guided by the Holy Spirit even though Holy Spirit told all of you different things. How is that 'thinking for yourself' theory working out for ya' EG?

Scripture makes it clear that there are false teachers and false doctrines and sound doctrine taught by men chosen by the Holy Spirit . We are to follow the men who teach sound doctrine for they are worthy of double honor. You follow what you think is sound doctrine! You follow YOU!! How is that working out for ya' EG?

 

[BloodBought 1953]

You obviously didn't like being "stuck" by 2 Timothy 3:16...

I think that it did its job.


Think again, Gospel perverter.....you “ stuck” me with nothing......oh, but how you would Love to ! What a burden it must be to preach true scripture at times but have to hide your Core Doctrine Of “ Lucky Repentance” That pollutes your Heart, because every true verse you bring up is blown out of the water by the way you Trample the Blood Of Jesus....
You Trample that Blood by saying that even though it is Essential for Salvation, it just ain’t ADEQUATE for Salvation.....that Blood will not cover any forgotten sins that you did not have the “ super memory” or “ Good Luck” to Repent from .....
If anybody has gotten “ stuck” with a verse of Scripture it’s YOU! You are “ Fallen from Grace” as c,ear.y described in Galatians 5 with your False, Perverted Addition to Paul’s Simple Gospel Of Grace Plus Nothing......and you are Blind to that fact ....
Let’s hope for your sake and the sake of others that want to add to the Gospel with “ Holy-Sounding” stuff such as “Repenting from Sins” that the description Of “ Falling from Grace” does not refer to Damnation....
For the sake of Newbies out there that may be susceptible to your Hog Wash......To Repent means literally to “ change your mind” ......Anybody that did not believe the Gospel Of 1Cor15:1-4 and “ changed their mind” and came to believe it, has accomplished All the Repentance that they will ever need in order to be Saved.......a daily “ repentance Of Sins” will occur Naturally —-AFTER you have become a New Creation in Christ Jesus and have the Holy Spirit within you......
JBF is the one truly “ struck” by Scripture .....he constantly tries to turn the tables on me because I call him out and “ rebuke” him as Paul has ordered us to do with all that would “ Pervert” his Gospel....nice try, JBF.....your accusations do not “ Stick”...... for you it’s “ back to the Drawing Board”....good luck.....

 

[justbyfaith]

True, of course.......much of New Testament Scripture is “profitable” because it shows how much of the Old Testament was stood on its head by the “ New and Better Promises Of God .

When Paul wrote 2 Timothy 3:16, the New Testament scriptures were not fully written or described as being the word of the Lord. So, he was referring to primarily the Old Testament when he said that all scripture is inspired of the Lord and profitable for doctrine.

The Cross changed almost everything.....”Inspired Scripture” shows how the Doctrines Of The Bible have changed for the better
Our Doctrines for today should be viewed through a lens of Grace—- NOT the lens Of Law .

Of course, the law has its place in Christian preaching...for it is a schoolmaster to lead men to Christ (Galatians 3:24, Romans 3:20, Psalms 19:7 (kjv)).

We no longer live in the “ Age Of Law” and it’s impossible demands......we live in the new , marvelous “Age Of Grace”

Now, grace enables us to fulfill the law (Romans 8:4, Romans 8:7, Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16; Romans 5:5, 1 john 5:3, 2 John 1:6).

It is VERY “ Profitable” to compare Old Doctrines with New Doctrines.......like these—— we don’t give to God because we are FORCED to ( the old tithing system for example)...we give because we WANT to .

I see the Old Testament tithing system as being on a strictly voluntary basis. While a man is cursed with a curse if he does not tithe, salvation is not affected in that system by not tithing. But a man will be blessed with a blessing if he does tithe; and the Lord will open the windows of heaven for him.

Its also a change of Doctrine , revealed by “ profitable Scripture” that we no longer have to forgive others to be forgiven ourselves...

So, you are saying that because Jesus died on the Cross, everything that Jesus said is no longer valid?

I simply do not believe that.

...we are ALREADY FORGIVEN and “ that” is the New Doctrine thinking that is the impetus for forgiving others....we forgive because we WANT to , not because we HAVE to...

Heb 1:1, God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Heb 1:2, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Mat 6:14, For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
Mat 6:15, But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Mar 11:25, And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
Mar 11:26, But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.

I would say to you that Jesus is the Son of God and that His word is authoritative.

You think for yourself.....Joe at the Protestant church down the road thinks for himself.....Michelle who gathers with 5-7 of her best friends in her basement at her house church thinks for herself.....and all of you think you are guided by the Holy Spirit even though Holy Spirit told all of you different things.

Eph 4:11, And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12, For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13, Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Eph 4:14, That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
Eph 4:15, But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
Eph 4:16, From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

What makes you think that it is only Catholic ministers who can speak forth things that are sound doctrine and will therefore bring the hearers into the unity of the faith?

I would say that even when people speak different things as Protestants, that as long as it is not false doctrine, it will contribute to the understanding of the faith that will eventually come about as the result of a relevant discussion of all things scriptural.