Discerning : The Water Cults

[Philip James]

Im the church

wow, just wow

 

[justbyfaith]

Thanks JBF,

Traditionally theologians have connected that passage from Ezekiel with water baptism in the NT. Once a person believes AND is baptized (sprinkled with clean water) they will do those things. It doesn't say once you start believing you will automatically do good work. The devil believes also (James 2:19). Does he do good works?

I am not sure how those passages from Philippians 2 proves that one will automatically do good works once they start believing. It doesn't say you will start doing good works as soon as you start believing...It simply is not there!

It says He works in you both to will and to do according to His good pleasure.

If He is working in you to will according to His good pleasure, then He is affecting your will so that you will be obedient. If He is working in you to do His good pleasure, then He is causing you to do according to His will.

That seems to me to say that you will be doing good works if you have faith in Jesus; for He is working in you both to will and to do according to His good pleasure.

 

[Marymog]

So do you believe it or not?

lets get to the bottom if the issue!

Your wrong, It is not initial salvation.

once again, DO you believe one can have true saving faith and never do any works? yes or no?

lets stick to our conversation and not go off on rabbit trails

Thanks EG,

Well, I asked you to give me the post# in which I said what you alleged I said. You didn't/couldn't do that sooooooo are you going to at least acknowledge that fact? I am not asking for an apology. Just an acknowledgment that I didn't say what you thought I said. It's hard to have a conversation with someone when they make false allegations.

No rabbit trail from this girl. I have made it very clear what Scripture teaches and what I believe. Truly though, it is not a matter of what you or I believe. It is a matter of what Scripture says. I believe Faith without works is DEAD! If all you have is faith, with no good works EG, how can you be saved with a dead faith?

Not everyone who says Lord, Lord, will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but rather he who does the will of my Father" (Matthew 7:21) That means doing the will of God is a necessary component of one's faith. Do you think it is Gods will that we do good works?

Having only faith, with no works, means giving God lip service. God demands actions from us, not just lip service. ("This generation honors me with their lips, while their heart is far from me", Matthew 15:18). For you see EG, a man is justified by works, and not by faith alone (James 2:24).

I hope you are now very clear on what Scripture teaches about faith AND works.

Bible Study Mary

 

[Marymog]

It says He works in you both to will and to do according to His good pleasure.

If He is working in you to will according to His good pleasure, then He is affecting your will so that you will be obedient. If He is working in you to do His good pleasure, then He is causing you to do according to His will.

That seems to me to say that you will be doing good works if you have faith in Jesus; for He is working in you both to will and to do according to His good pleasure.

Thanks JBF,

That makes sense. A person of faith should be doing good works. I know many Christians who have faith, believe in Him and regularly go to Church. They don't do good works. Do you know anyone like that?

I guess the difference is the one who does the good works has a true, deep abiding faith and the one who doesn't do the good works only has faith. Does that make sense?

I wonder if both will obtain salvation.....

 

[Marymog]

Im the church, and i dont teach water cult nonsense..

REALLY????? So you are the pillar and foundation of truth???

F a s c i n a t in g....

 

[justbyfaith]

Rom 4:1, What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
Rom 4:2, For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
Rom 4:3, For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Rom 4:4, Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Rom 4:5, But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 4:6, Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Rom 4:7, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Rom 4:8, Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Looking at verse 4, we find that God will not owe salvation to anyone; and that attempting to make Him owe you salvation by the good works that you do is an affront to Him.

In v.5, we find that faith is accounted as righteousness to him that worketh not but believeth in Him who justifieth the ungodly.

In v.6 we find that God imputes righteousness apart from works.

Here is another scripture.

Tit 3:3, For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
Tit 3:4, But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
Tit 3:5, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Tit 3:6, Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
Tit 3:7, That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

In v.5, we find that the Lord saved us according to His mercy and not by works of righteousness which we have done. This salvation is the regeneration and renewing in the Holy Ghost.

In v.3, we find that this regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost has an effect on the inward disposition of a man. He will not any longer be foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another.

Those things get eradicated when the Holy Spirit comes in with the kindness and love of God our Saviour (verse 4), which is also placed in the heart of the individual who has been redeemed by that kindness and love (Galatians 3:14, Romans 5:5).

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Thank you for admitting that I am right to believe Ezekiel's words.

Why don't you?


You are certainly welcome ....I believe the words of Anybody or any THING that is in the Bible....That would include anything from Ezekiel to Balaam’s Ass.......I just don’t believe YOU or your Confused interpretation of much of God's Word.....

In all honesty , these quotes of Ezekiel who you Turn to instead of Jesus or Paul? I really don’t understand what the hell you are trying to get across.....is it just me?

 

[BloodBought 1953]

All scripture is inspired of the Lord and is profitable for doctrine (2 Timothy 3:16).

If born again believers don't get their doctrine from the holy scriptures, where do they get it?


Duh.....gee thanks ....I never heard of that quote from 2 Timothy Before.......NOT! Please give me a break ....you know I don’t need to hear that......you probably got it from me, Truth be told.....you steal a lot of my other stuff....
It’s one thing to read and study and cherish a book in the Bible .....that does NOT mean you get your Doctrine from it to share with others and especially Newbies ......you wanna take a book like “ Leviticus” and use it for Doctrine ? How silly .You'd create a Jew trying to use that for Doctrine ....a legalist ..... a perverter Of The gospel Of Grace , like many we see in here daily.....Mixing Judaism with a sprinkling of Jesus added..... Juda-Anity I call it.....ring a bell ?

 

[justbyfaith]

Thank you for admitting that I am right to believe Ezekiel's words.

Why don't you?


You are certainly welcome ....I believe the words of Anybody or any THING that is in the Bible....That would include anything from Ezekiel to Balaam’s Ass.......I just don’t believe YOU or your Confused interpretation of much of God's Word.....

In all honesty , these quotes of Ezekiel who you Turn to instead of Jesus or Paul? I really don’t understand what the hell you are trying to get across.....is it just me?

I bring up Ezekiel 33:11-20 because it was instrumental in bringing me to repentance as concerning a specific besetting sin in my life.

That is how the Holy Spirit ministered to me...by showing me Ezekiel 33:11-20 in a moment when my heart would be open to what that scripture teaches us.

I think that the reason why you cannot receive the teaching of that scripture is because your heart isn't open to its teaching. Rather than receive the teaching, you would rather deflect; saying that it is to Israel and therefore it does not apply to you.

Well, "Israel" means "governed by God", so if you are governed by God it does apply to you.

It’s one thing to read and study and cherish a book in the Bible .....that does NOT mean you get your Doctrine from it

All scripture is inspired of the Lord and is profitable for doctrine (2 Timothy 3:16).

 

[justbyfaith]

Duh.....gee thanks ....I never heard of that quote from 2 Timothy Before.......NOT! Please give me a break

Heb 4:12, For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

I'm sure that you've heard of the above scripture too...

But there is a point to my process and a method to my madness.

You might be one of those who say that the word of God isn't sharp.

But my response to such a thing is not to argue over the sharpness of the sword but to stick you with it.

You obviously didn't like being "stuck" by 2 Timothy 3:16...

I think that it did its job.

 

[Behold]

Lol.....OK...I know nothing about Catholic Theology. You crack me up kiddo.

Let me once again educate you since you refuse to educate yourself.

1. We are talking about "traditional teaching from Christianity" not the 1950 Assumption dogma.
2. There were widespread “Transitus Stories” that date from the sixth century that teach Mary’s Assumption.

Like all who are involved with the cult of mary, you have only "traditions" and "fragments" found in non-accepted texts.

 

[Behold]

2 Peter 3:16

"Doctrines of Devils"..

= Galatians 1:8

= "cult of the Virgin".

 

[Behold]

wow, just wow

The "body of Christ", is the "Bride of Christ", is the "Temple of the Holy Spirit".

This is not the "Catholic Church".

Its the BORN AGAIN.

 

[Behold]

REALLY????? So you are the pillar and foundation of truth???

F a s c i n a t in g....

You said i consider myself the "pillar of Truth">
I didnt say that..

I said that im the "church", which is the "bride of Christ"< .. which is the "Temple of the Holy Spirit""".

Who is this that i am?.......= Born again.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Thanks JBF,

Traditionally theologians have connected that passage from Ezekiel with water baptism in the NT. Once a person believes AND is baptized (sprinkled with clean water) they will do those things. It doesn't say once you start believing you will automatically do good work. The devil believes also (James 2:19). Does he do good works?

I am not sure how those passages from Philippians 2 proves that one will automatically do good works once they start believing. It doesn't say you will start doing good works as soon as you start believing...It simply is not there!

So one is changed from a dog to a prince, made a new creature in Christ, but will keep acting like a Dog?

it saddens me when people who are part of a religious organization can not grasp retain aspects of what those born of God have in Christ,

It does not mean they are going to be super christians. The corinthian church proves not everyone will change immediately in all areas. But to keep insisting no change will happen. Well that just religion speaking, not God

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Thanks EG,

Well, I asked you to give me the post# in which I said what you alleged I said. You didn't/couldn't do that sooooooo are you going to at least acknowledge that fact? I am not asking for an apology. Just an acknowledgment that I didn't say what you thought I said. It's hard to have a conversation with someone when they make false allegations.

No rabbit trail from this girl.

So once again we have a discussion in where you will not answer me, is your faith in what you believe that weak that you are afraid to answer questions?

you asked me to show you where a believer will do good works, I tried to show you and you mocked me, so I changed and instead wanted to have you show you believe it also by saying yes or no to answer the question do you believe a child of faith can never have works,

but time and time again here we are, no answer, beat around the bush, demand I answer your question,

I have made it very clear what Scripture teaches and what I believe. Truly though, it is not a matter of what you or I believe. It is a matter of what Scripture says. I believe Faith without works is DEAD! If all you have is faith, with no good works EG, how can you be saved with a dead faith?

I believe it also. But you are so out to prove me wrong you can not grasp that fact,

if I trust someone,I am going to tend to do what they say, if I NEVER do anything they say, I am decieving myself and not being honest in claiming I have faith in them, I have lied, my faith is dead (non existent)

I have said this so many times in this chatroom I have lost count,

Not everyone who says Lord, Lord, will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but rather he who does the will of my Father

" (Matthew 7:21) That means doing the will of God is a necessary component of one's faith. Do you think it is Gods will that we do good works?

This is descriptive, not prescriptive, Gods people do his will, he who is born of God can not sin, because they have been born of God, he who sins has never seen or known god, the apostle John makes this clear.
It is not a necessary component, we are saved by faith, not works, true faith produces works, I pray so hard you realise this soon,

Having only faith, with no works, means giving God lip service. God demands actions from us, not just lip service. ("This generation honors me with their lips, while their heart is far from me", Matthew 15:18). For you see EG, a man is justified by works, and not by faith alone (James 2:24).

I hope you are now very clear on what Scripture teaches about faith AND works.

Bible Study Mary

there is no such thing as true living faith that has no works.

on e again, put your money where your mouth is,

put it out there for us all to hear,

do you believe someone can have faith and never do any works period?

please answer,,

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Thanks JBF,

That makes sense. A person of faith should be doing good works. I know many Christians who have faith, believe in Him and regularly go to Church. They don't do good works. Do you know anyone like that?

I guess the difference is the one who does the good works has a true, deep abiding faith and the one who doesn't do the good works only has faith. Does that make sense?

I wonder if both will obtain salvation.....

The people in James went to church yet he called some of them out for not doing any work at all

the problem is what is works?

evidently it is not going to church specifically. It has to be more than that

 

[Marymog]

do you believe someone can have faith and never do any works period?

please answer,,

I have answered. I thought you read post’s #486 #515 #523 #524. That’s four times. How many more times would you like me to say it?

 

[Marymog]

So once again we have a discussion in where you will not answer me, is your faith in what you believe that weak that you are afraid to answer questions?

Dear EG,

Hmmmm.....I don’t know if you are lying to make yourself feel better or if you are trying to make me look bad. You made a false allegation against me. I called you out on it and THIS is your response???? Another lie (that I didn’t answer you). Deeply concerning...

Praying for you.......Mary

 

[Marymog]

You said i consider myself the "pillar of Truth">
I didnt say that..

I said that im the "church", which is the "bride of Christ"< .. which is the "Temple of the Holy Spirit""".

Who is this that i am?.......= Born again.

Dear Dear Behold,

Please read what Scripture has to say The Church is instead of what your Protestant men have taught you. You are not The Church. You are a member of it but you are not The Church.