Discussion vs. Debate

[Strat]

Strat,



I did reason people are bias sometimes, the commands are useful.



Delivered to who ? Those who need to hear it,the lost who need to be saved and put on the "narrow" path



I did reason some people believe knowledge doesn't exist and they have stated knowledge doesn't exist which I reason is wrong because in that they have shown they believe they know something.

Sometimes being silent to someone is beneficial to them and you and all of us.

I agree,but here that would make for a pretty boring experience.

I think the Word defends itself as we speak it, but to keep going on and on about something turns into something ugly and often futile...at that point I just release the person to the Holy Spirit's convicting power...that's just my take on it.

True

 

[dragonfly]

To aspen2,

I believe discussions are an exercise in vulnerability - which is important because it is the foundation of perspective taking ...'

Hello brother,

[I was going to post this after a post with some Bible quotes and other comments. That first post was lost through my not noticing that my line had dropped, so I need to find out if the mods can recover it or not.]

I agree that discussion is an exercise in vulnerability - particularly the vulnerability of our minds, which is also the doorway the Lord uses for ministering His word to us. That's important to remember. Our minds are to be a filter, not a sponge - except when God is speaking to us.

Your phrase 'persepctive-taking' is interesting. Do you mean by this that through listening to others, we begin to learn what and how they think and reason?

Or, do you mean something about your own perspective being changed by the thoughts and opinions of others? Perhaps both, in a measure?

- sympathy, empathy, love, forgiveness, and finally, unconditional love - all the skills of our redemption.

Hmm. Where to start.... Okay: 'sympathy'; it very much depends whether the kind of sympathy you have in mind, is the kind the Bible allows - or not. The same goes for 'empathy'. Both have a limited application, according to Paul. I say this because the kind of compassion which Jesus exhibited, and which we are exhorted to minister, is full of power and love and a sound mind. It does not pander to sin. It is hot for the restoration of the sinner to spiritual health at least. This is part of unconditional love, which wants only God's best for the other person.

Your inclusion of 'forgiveness', I can understand (being here on CyB), but do remember that not every word which hurts, is to one's detriment. The truth will sting like crazy, but it brings with it both healthy conviction, and hope. To protect a person from whole truth, in order not to hurt their feelings or their long-held views, is not necessarily Godly kindness or love. God knows we all need our minds renewed by His word through His Spirit, and we really must embrace that with as much enthusiasm as possible, if necessary, asking Him to cause us to forget the things our fallen minds held dear, so that we can hear Him clearly, and become familiar with His attitudes to everything.

Therefore, participation in a discussion is practicing our sanctification

You have another interesting turn of phrase here, 'practicing our sanctification'. Are you thinking that 'participation in a discussion', will make you holier? Is that what you mean?

Or, do you mean that the exercise of the fruit of the Spirit (John 15:4; Gal 5:22) and the exercise of 'the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [to] the doctrine which is according to godliness', are part of the purification process of which John speaks in his first epistle, 1 John 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. 2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure,' by which one will become more like Him?


(This could be a discussion all on its own, so I'm not seeking to distract the thread, only a little clarification?)

 

[Thomas Kelly guessed]

aspen2,

Matthew 21:12

Thanks.

You may look at parts of documents below of one known as a Church Father of ancient time and known as St John Chrysostom for reasons such similar actions happened.

Parts of

Homily XXIII.

John ii. 11

“This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee.”

[2.] Another Evangelist writes, that as He cast them out, He said, Make not my Father’s house “a den of thieves,” but this one,
Ver. 16. (“Make not My Father’s house) an house of merchandise.”
They do not in this contradict each other, but show that he did this a second time, and that both these expressions were not used on the same occasion, but that He acted thus once at the beginning of His ministry, and again when He had come to the very time of His Passion. Therefore, (on the latter occasion,) employing more strong expressions, He spoke of it as (being made) “a den of thieves,” but here at the commencement of His miracles He does not so, but uses a more gentle rebuke; from
which it is probable that this took place a second time.
“And wherefore,” says one, “did Christ do this same, and use such severity against these men, a thing which He is nowhere else seen to do, even when insulted and reviled, and called by them ‘Samaritan’ and ‘demoniac’? for He was not even satisfied with words only, but took a scourge, and so cast them out.” Yes, but it was when others were receiving benefit, that the Jews accused and raged against Him; when it was probable that they would have been made savage by His rebukes, they showed no such disposition towards Him, for they neither accused nor reviled Him. What say they?
Ver. 18. “What sign showest Thou unto us, seeing that Thou doest these things?”
Seest thou their excessive malice, and how the benefits done to others incensed them more (than reproofs)?
At one time then He said, that the Temple was made by them “a den of thieves,” showing that what they sold was gotten by theft, and rapine, and covetousness, and that they were rich through other men’s calamities; at another, “a house of merchandise,” pointing to their shameless traffickings. “But wherefore did He this?” Since he was about to heal on the Sabbath day, and to do many such things which were thought by them transgressions of the Law, in order that He might not seem to do this as though He had come to be some rival God and opponent of His Father, He takes occasion hence to correct any such suspicion of theirs. For One who had exhibited so much zeal for the House was not likely to oppose Him who was Lord of the House, and who was worshiped in it. No doubt even the former years during which He lived according to the Law, were sufficient to show His reverence for the Legislator, and that He came not to give contrary laws; yet since it was likely that those years were forgotten through lapse of time, as not having been known to all because He was brought up in a poor and mean dwelling, He afterwards does this in the presence of all, (for many were present because the feast was nigh at hand,) and at great risk. For he did not merely “cast them out,” but also “overturned the tables,” and “poured out the money,” giving them by this to understand, that He who threw Himself into danger for the good order of the House could never despise his Master. Had He acted as He did from hypocrisy, He should only have advised them; but to place Himself in danger was very daring. For it was no light thing to offer Himself to the anger of so many market-folk, to excite against Himself a most brutal mob of petty dealers by His reproaches and His blows, this was not the action of a pretender, but of one choosing to suffer everything for the order of the House.
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Strat,

I did reason people are bias sometimes, the commands are useful.

Delivered to who ?

Those who need to hear it,the lost who need to be saved and put on the "narrow" path

I reasoned people need God's Word before I asked. Delivered to who ?

I did reason some people believe knowledge doesn't exist and they have stated knowledge doesn't exist which I reason is wrong because in that they have shown they believe they know something.

Sometimes being silent to someone is beneficial to them and you and all of us.

I agree,but here that would make for a pretty boring experience

So you reason this is like being a spectator or performer in a theatre or ancient roman stadium ? Do you want to look great in reasoning of yourself ? Is that the sign of The Holy Spirit or vanity ?