Do you believe that ALL babies that die go to Heaven or only "the elect"?

[ScottA]

Huh?

How did Jesus save Abraham if Jesus had yet to be born? I don't get your theory....

It is no theory but rather biblical fact that all who are saved, meaning born again of the spirit of God, are "in Christ" "the only begotten Son."

 

[Behold]

You are right Truther. It definitely doesn't say that. But Jesus said to baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Should we do what He told us to do?

You do realize that the Jews Peter was talking to didn't think it was silly. It made sense to them. For you see they were probably baptized under John the Baptist and NOT in the name of Jesus. Think of Acts 19 (With what then were you baptized? And they said, With John’s baptism) and how those Jews were baptized, but not baptized in the name of Jesus.

When those Jews did get baptized in the name of Jesus, they baptized them in the way Jesus TOLD them to do it in Matthew 28:19!!

Water has no magical power to wash away sin.

So, you can be baptized in Jesus Name or in the Name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit.. (or both).
Its all symbolic, and related to the fact that the person is born again, already.
The water follows salvation, it does not cause it.

Getting water baptized is like getting a UNIFORM< after you join the Army.
The uniform can be purchased by anyone, but its only to those who have JOINED the ARMY, that the uniform has significance.

This is water baptism, its only the uniform.......but its the Salvation, that is JOINING God and Christ as born again... that is essential.

Imagine the surprise of people who are water baptized and went to Hell today, instantly, after they died.
I wonder how they feel about The Pope right now....

They all were taught by a water cult that that city water supply "washed away your sin".

But Jesus on the Cross, says.... "im the way to the Father".."my BLOOD is the New Testament, the New COVENANT..... "not water".

 

[Truther]

You are right Truther. It definitely doesn't say that. But Jesus said to baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Should we do what He told us to do?

You do realize that the Jews Peter was talking to didn't think it was silly. It made sense to them. For you see they were probably baptized under John the Baptist and NOT in the name of Jesus. Think of Acts 19 (With what then were you baptized? And they said, With John’s baptism) and how those Jews were baptized, but not baptized in the name of Jesus.

When those Jews did get baptized in the name of Jesus, they baptized them in the way Jesus TOLD them to do it in Matthew 28:19!!

I can explain it here with my video if you got a few minutes...

 

[Truther]

Most definitely and you would too if you truly understand what is stipulated in verses 38-41.

To God Be The Glory

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

 

[JunChosen]

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

BUT DID YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'VE JUST READ???

I DOUBT IT!

To God Be The Glory

 

[Truther]

BUT DID YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'VE JUST READ???

I DOUBT IT!

To God Be The Glory

Yes, that 3000 souls were baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of their sins and thus were added.

 

[Wick Stick]

I think all babies that die to to Heaven, although I don't know that I can back that belief with scripture.

Might be argued that it would be better for all people if they all died as babies so that they would all go to Heaven rather than growing into adulthood and risking being condemned to Hell?

I think that the idea that all babies go to heaven is based mostly in a moral objection to the idea of babies going to hell.

 

[St. SteVen]

I think that the idea that all babies go to heaven is based mostly in a moral objection to the idea of babies going to hell.

Is God moral?
Or does he kill babies by the book?

I'm trying to imagine the judgement of an infant.

Parody time:
"Do you remember depriving your parents of sleep for weeks on end?"
Response: "Goo goo, gah gah."
"For the record, was that a 'Yes', or a 'No'?
Response: "Dah dah dah."
"So, you're blaming your father?"
Response: "Thhatttttz." (tongue noise)

 

[Wick Stick]

I'm trying to imagine the judgement of an infant.

Parody time:
"Do you remember depriving your parents of sleep for weeks on end?"
Response: "Goo goo, gah gah."
"For the record, was that a 'Yes', or a 'No'?
Response: "Dah dah dah."
"So, you're blaming your father?"
Response: "Thhatttttz." (tongue noise)

Is God moral?

Or does he kill babies by the book?

The Book (as I read it) has 4 judgments/rewards for the departed:

1) For Martyrs - a physical resurrection followed by an eternity with God in the hereafter
2) For Abraham's children (including those adopted in Christ) - an eternity with God in the hereafter
3) For those-outside-the-fold who were not evil - annihilation
4) For the Wicked - eternal punishment

Babies would fall into the 3rd category.

 

[St. SteVen]

Babies would fall into the 3rd category.

Wow. Annihilation for babies.

Are you familiar with Christian Universalism?
Sometimes known as UR. (Ultimate Redemption, Universal Restoration, Universal Reconciliation)

 

[Wick Stick]

Wow. Annihilation for babies.

For most people, probably. "Broad is the way that leads to..."

Are you familiar with Christian Universalism?
Sometimes known as UR. (Ultimate Redemption, Universal Restoration, Universal Reconciliation)

Kinda? I know the basic idea behind it, but I wouldn't say I've spent much time thinking about it or discussing it.

 

[St. SteVen]

Kinda? I know the basic idea behind it, but I wouldn't say I've spent much time thinking about it or discussing it.

I take the UR stance, As does the thread starter, who is no longer with us here.
Should you want to discuss it, I am available. Here are some previous threads to review and respond to if you like.
See if one of these titles catches your attention.

The Hell Doctrine - No doctrinal unity

What's your view on the final judgement? Here are the three popular biblical views: 1) Damnationism 2) Annihilationism 3) Universalism All three views are biblical, all three views are in DIRECT conflict.

www.christianityboard.com

Are you sending your neighbors to Hell?

Perhaps the best evidence that no one really believes in a forever-burning Hell. Or that no one really loves their neighbors. Take your pick. If you really loved your neighbors, and believed in a forever-burning Hell, you wouldn't send them there. I can hear the reply coming now. "I didn't...

www.christianityboard.com

Jesus talked about hell more than any other person in the Bible. - Seriously?

Brook Potter “When someone says that Jesus taught about Hell more than anything else in his earthly ministry, it’s obvious that person get’s their theology from Christian Television more so than from study.” One of the most common logical fallacies used by Christians is the fallacy of...

www.christianityboard.com

Open Discussion of UR Chapter Five - When Was Hell Invented?

GOOGLE question; "when was the word hell invented?" GOOGLE's answer; About 17,400,000 results (0.46 seconds) The modern English word hell is derived from Old English hel, helle (first attested around 725 AD to refer to a nether world of the dead) reaching into the Anglo-Saxon pagan period...

www.christianityboard.com

Open Discussion of UR Chapter Four - The Gates of Hell...

Jesus said, "... I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." - Matthew 16:18 NIV Question #1) What are the gates of hell? Question #2) What does it mean to not prevail? Question #3) How should the church (the Body of Christ) respond to this? Question #4) How...

www.christianityboard.com

Open Discussion of UR Chapter Three - God's character
Probably one of the most important aspects of Ultimate Redemption (UR) is God's character. cc: @GRACE ambassador --- but, all are invited to join the discussion. Ultimate Redemption focuses on the mercy of God in judgement. God's ultimate ministry of reconciliation. The restoration of all...

Open Discussion of UR Chapter Two
Welcome: This discussion was started in the topic titled: Open Discussion of UR Chapter One With a little help from the precious (honest, courteous, and kind) friend there, who drove Chapter One, he loaded my vehicle with these Scriptures to continue with here: "For He shall have judgment...

Open discussion about UR - Chapter One
This discussion was started in the topic titled: What is the affect on The Fall and The Atonement, if Adam was not the first human? I was answring some questions for @GRACE ambassador We decided to move the discussion to our own thread. This is where the discussion ended. GRACE Ambassador had...

 

[Wick Stick]

I take the UR stance, As does the thread starter, who is no longer with us here.
Should you want to discuss it, I am available. Here are some previous threads to review and respond to if you like.
See if one of these titles catches your attention.

The Hell Doctrine - No doctrinal unity

What's your view on the final judgement? Here are the three popular biblical views: 1) Damnationism 2) Annihilationism 3) Universalism All three views are biblical, all three views are in DIRECT conflict.

www.christianityboard.com

Are you sending your neighbors to Hell?

Perhaps the best evidence that no one really believes in a forever-burning Hell. Or that no one really loves their neighbors. Take your pick. If you really loved your neighbors, and believed in a forever-burning Hell, you wouldn't send them there. I can hear the reply coming now. "I didn't...

www.christianityboard.com

Jesus talked about hell more than any other person in the Bible. - Seriously?

Brook Potter “When someone says that Jesus taught about Hell more than anything else in his earthly ministry, it’s obvious that person get’s their theology from Christian Television more so than from study.” One of the most common logical fallacies used by Christians is the fallacy of...

www.christianityboard.com

Open Discussion of UR Chapter Five - When Was Hell Invented?

GOOGLE question; "when was the word hell invented?" GOOGLE's answer; About 17,400,000 results (0.46 seconds) The modern English word hell is derived from Old English hel, helle (first attested around 725 AD to refer to a nether world of the dead) reaching into the Anglo-Saxon pagan period...

www.christianityboard.com

Open Discussion of UR Chapter Four - The Gates of Hell...

Jesus said, "... I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." - Matthew 16:18 NIV Question #1) What are the gates of hell? Question #2) What does it mean to not prevail? Question #3) How should the church (the Body of Christ) respond to this? Question #4) How...

www.christianityboard.com

Open Discussion of UR Chapter Three - God's character
Probably one of the most important aspects of Ultimate Redemption (UR) is God's character. cc: @GRACE ambassador --- but, all are invited to join the discussion. Ultimate Redemption focuses on the mercy of God in judgement. God's ultimate ministry of reconciliation. The restoration of all...

Open Discussion of UR Chapter Two
Welcome: This discussion was started in the topic titled: Open Discussion of UR Chapter One With a little help from the precious (honest, courteous, and kind) friend there, who drove Chapter One, he loaded my vehicle with these Scriptures to continue with here: "For He shall have judgment...

Open discussion about UR - Chapter One
This discussion was started in the topic titled: What is the affect on The Fall and The Atonement, if Adam was not the first human? I was answring some questions for @GRACE ambassador We decided to move the discussion to our own thread. This is where the discussion ended. GRACE Ambassador had...

I'm open to talking about it, but I'm pretty happy with my current view. While it's irregular, it doesn't make God into a devil, and it doesn't require me to explain away some bits of Scripture in favor of others.

I guess I don't know where to start. Should I critique your view? Give my own? I don't really have a question to start from, but this has been a pleasant conversation, and I'd be happy to speak with you on other topics.

-Jarrod

 

[Truther]

The Book (as I read it) has 4 judgments/rewards for the departed:

1) For Martyrs - a physical resurrection followed by an eternity with God in the hereafter
2) For Abraham's children (including those adopted in Christ) - an eternity with God in the hereafter
3) For those-outside-the-fold who were not evil - annihilation
4) For the Wicked - eternal punishment

Babies would fall into the 3rd category.

Only Democrats believe in annihilating the babies

 

[St. SteVen]

I'm open to talking about it, but I'm pretty happy with my current view. While it's irregular, it doesn't make God into a devil, and it doesn't require me to explain away some bits of Scripture in favor of others.

I guess I don't know where to start. Should I critique your view? Give my own? I don't really have a question to start from, but this has been a pleasant conversation, and I'd be happy to speak with you on other topics.

-Jarrod

Here's a question to consider. No response required until you want to.

Question: Did Jesus die to save us from God?

 

[Wick Stick]

Here's a question to consider. No response required until you want to.

Question: Did Jesus die to save us from God?

No. Anselm was wrong. The satisfaction theory is a late-comer - part of Church Tradition, as I defined it in that other topic.

 

[Marymog]

Water has no magical power to wash away sin.

Hey Behold,

When did I say or The Church teach that water has magical power to wash away sin?

 

[Marymog]

So, you can be baptized in Jesus Name or in the Name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit.. (or both).

Hey Behold,

Jesus (Scripture) says baptize all in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit!!!

Behold says one can be baptized in Jesus Name OR in the Name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Which one should I follow.....

 

[Marymog]

Water has no magical power to wash away sin.

So, you can be baptized in Jesus Name or in the Name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit.. (or both).
Its all symbolic, and related to the fact that the person is born again, already.
The water follows salvation, it does not cause it.

Hello Behold,

Jesus told Nicodemus that one cannot enter the kingdom of God unless they are born again. Jesus then said that one is born again thru water and Spirit. But it seems you are suggesting that a person is born again BEFORE water and Spirit. For 2,000 years of Christianity water and Spirit has meant water baptism.

Does that mean you believe that being born of water and Spirit is not a water baptism????

Curious Mary

 

[Marymog]

They all were taught by a water cult that that city water supply "washed away your sin".

Yup, all of us in the "water cult" were taught that water washes away your sin. Luke, the leader of our cult, was the first one to teach it in Acts 22:16. We agree with Luke.

Who is it that you agree with that teaches opposite of that? Ellen G. White?Run far away from her if it is her....

Curious Mary