Do you believe the lie?

[marks]

The life God gave the first humans was conditional…..it would be “everlasting” or perpetual, as long as they obeyed his directive not to eat the fruit of just one tree. Death could only come through disobedience.

Actually, immortality was not based on that, it depended on whether they ate from the tree of life. Else why would it be written:

Genesis 3:22 KJV
And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Everlasting life would be supplied if they ate from the tree of life, even having eaten from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I don't think they're a real JW. Though I have agreed with a member that they do sound like one when they ignore the truth and try to obfuscate facts as pertains to that cult tradition.

You can never discuss Jesus with an actual JW.
Because they don't believe in the Jesus we know in scripture. Their Jesus is Archangel Michael who they think became Jesus.

They still call him Jesus, and act as though this is our same Jesus. It's part of their deceptiveness.

Much love!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I don't think they're a real JW. Though I have agreed with a member that they do sound like one when they ignore the truth and try to obfuscate facts as pertains to that cult tradition.

You can never discuss Jesus with an actual JW.
Because they don't believe in the Jesus we know in scripture. Their Jesus is Archangel Michael who they think became Jesus.

She is. It's part of their religion to pretend to be Christians in order to deceive people into thinking that there's no difference between what they believe and what Christians believe. But, Christians do not deny the deity of Christ as they do and do not try to claim that our deaths cover our sins instead of the blood of Christ like they do and so on.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Right. She's contradicting herself as Jehovah's Witnesses are known to do.

Please tell me how I am contradicting myself…..there are two different terms with two different meanings that apparently escape the comprehension of some of the responders here who think that they are all going to heaven and will therefore all become immortals. That was never God’s purpose for the human race. He already had a large family of spirit sons in heaven, so can you tell me why he needed to choose some mortal humans to rule with Christ in his kingdom? He has to raise them in a totally different body in order to exist there…..they are going to be kings and priests who are resurrected “first”…..so who will be their subjects?

 

[Aunty Jane]

She is. It's part of their religion to pretend to be Christians in order to deceive people into thinking that there's no difference between what they believe and what Christians believe. But, Christians do not deny the deity of Christ as they do and do not try to claim that our deaths cover our sins instead of the blood of Christ like they do and so on.

Good grief! Another expert on JW’s…..ignorance does not ever result in telling the truth.…just a twisted version of things to give a false impression. History repeats you know…..and for all the same reasons. Human nature loves to jump to their own conclusions to make themselves feel superior….they cannot be wrong because their whole world would crumble.
Jesus told his disciples to expect the same response as he received. (John 15:18-21)

When the Jews were clamoring for Jesus‘ death, they were so sure that he was a fake Messiah that they cursed themselves and their children with his blood. (Matt 27:25) Be careful of overconfidence. (1 Cor 10:12)

Those being saved are not in the confident majority. (Matt 7:13-14; 21-23)

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Please tell me how I am contradicting myself…..there are two different terms with two different meanings that apparently escape the comprehension of some of the responders here who think that they are all going to heaven and will therefore all become immortals. That was never God’s purpose for the human race. He already had a large family of spirit sons in heaven, so can you tell me why he needed to choose some mortal humans to rule with Christ in his kingdom? He has to raise them in a totally different body in order to exist there…..they are going to be kings and priests who are resurrected “first”…..so who will be their subjects?

Are you not following the discussion? What I said was in relation to what Hiddenthings said to you, which was this:

If those who are blessed with immortality (proven faith unto death) are said to be like the angels in nature, in fact, equal to them, as Scripture states; how can you justify the belief that angels can sin and be killed, as you’ve claimed?

In other words, the Lord is drawing a comparison between the reward of the saints (immortality) and the nature of the angels (also immortal beings)— their future state is likened to that of the angels.

So, you create a contradiction by saying that angels do not have immortality even though scripture says we will put on immortality (1 Cor 15:50-54) and will be like the angels in the sense of never dying (Luke 20:36).

 

[Aunty Jane]

Actually, immortality was not based on that, it depended on whether they ate from the tree of life. Else why would it be written:

Genesis 3:22 KJV
And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

You’re still not acknowledging the difference between the two terms…..they are not interchangeable.
You initially state that they (A&E) would become “immortal” if they ate from the tree of life, and yet these are mortal humans who rely on all the external means that God supplied on this earth to keep them living. A shortage of any one of those means would result in death. (Food water and oxygen) That is not immortality…..they were offered “everlasting (perpetual) life” conditionally.…based on their obedience.

Spirit beings have no such dependence. Their bodies do not require any external life support, but it doesn’t mean that they are immortal because they have free will like we do, otherwise satan could never have rebelled in the first place….and he would not have been able to recruit his fellow angels in that rebellion if they did not have free will.
If they break the commands of their Creator, they too can be eliminated from existence.

Jesus said they were bound for the lake of fire, where the “goats” already are. (Matt 25:41)
Immortals are not in the lake of fire because there are no immortal souls found in the Bible at all, and satan and his demons are not “souls”……they are “spirits” who can be “destroyed” in “Gehenna”.

Everlasting life would be supplied if they ate from the tree of life, even having eaten from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Yes, everlasting life (not immortality) was supplied by that provision….and once sin entered into the picture, God took away the possibility that any human rebel would live forever by accessing the fruit of that tree.

They still call him Jesus, and act as though this is our same Jesus. It's part of their deceptiveness.

There is only one Jesus, and he is not what Christendom claims him to be. The “deceptiveness” of Christendom’s teachings is much older than any of its many denominations…..your Jesus is an invention of fourth century Roman Catholicism…..inherited when her ‘daughters’ left home and continued to carve the savior up among themselves. The body of Christ exists in a dismembered state…..do you really think God would allow or approve of that?

There is a case for cleaning up your own backyard before you throw your garbage in ours….OK?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Good grief! Another expert on JW’s…..

Thank you, I appreciate you acknowledging that. It's not like what JWs believe is not freely available on their website or anything, so it's not hard to know what JWs believe.

ignorance does not ever result in telling the truth.…just a twisted version of things to give a false impression. History repeats you know…..and for all the same reasons. Human nature loves to jump to their own conclusions to make themselves feel superior….they cannot be wrong because their whole world would crumble.

I'm telling the truth about Jehovah's Witnesses, but you don't like it.

Jesus told his disciples to expect the same response as he received. (John 15:18-21)

You're not one of His disciples.

When the Jews were clamoring for Jesus‘ death, they were so sure that he was a fake Messiah that they cursed themselves and their children with his blood. (Matt 27:25) Be careful of overconfidence. (1 Cor 10:12)

Those being saved are not in the confident majority. (Matt 7:13-14; 21-23)

Tell us all about how you believe that your death will pay for your sins instead of the blood of Christ.

From the Jehovah's Witnesses official website:

"However, Paul also explains that a person “who has died has been acquitted from his sin.” (Romans 6:7) When a person dies, he is set free, or released, from any sins he has committed. That is why there is no reason to think that the dead continue to suffer somewhere because of their past mistakes."

Quoted from https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/bible-verses/romans-6-23/

 

[PS95]

Please tell me how I am contradicting myself…..there are two different terms with two different meanings that apparently escape the comprehension of some of the responders here who think that they are all going to heaven and will therefore all become immortals. That was never God’s purpose for the human race. He already had a large family of spirit sons in heaven, so can you tell me why he needed to choose some mortal humans to rule with Christ in his kingdom? He has to raise them in a totally different body in order to exist there…..they are going to be kings and priests who are resurrected “first”…..so who will be their subjects?

LOL Jane, not everyone shares your distorted view of Rev. Actually, only JWs have your view. So why don't you go to the JW forum and chat with them? Why are you here with us horrid antichrists? You do constantly contradict yourself. Here's one example
1. - our sins are all paid for by our dying. --therefore we will be auto resurrected.

Good grief! Another expert on JW’s…..ignorance does not ever result in telling the truth.…just a twisted version of things to give a false impression. History repeats you know…..and for all the same reasons. Human nature loves to jump to their own conclusions to make themselves feel superior….they cannot be wrong because their whole world would crumble.
Jesus told his disciples to expect the same response as he received. (John 15:18-21)

No. That's cute Jane and another favorite of jws. Let me see if I was ALLOWED on a JW forum would I be received kindly? should I throw out John 15 to them? How would that fly since you are the only poor persecuted one? I can't even get on a JW forum! lol
We are not wrong to call you out. You preach a different and new gospel! Your literature even admits is a new gospel and they are proud of it. Your brother, Keiw says our gospel was fulfilled so we needs yours. HA! Paul warned us 2x- let them be accursed!
There is no 1914 gospel of kingdom. There is only ONE gospel and it not the 1914 false prophet one. It is the Lord Jesus' gospel!
They kill Christians all over the globe for preaching Jesus. Please don't tell us how persecuted you are. It's a farce. I am the shunned by JW family because I preach Jesus Christ crucified for OUR sins, not you. Speak truth then we can talk about persecution.

When the Jews were clamoring for Jesus‘ death, they were so sure that he was a fake Messiah that they cursed themselves and their children with his blood. (Matt 27:25) Be careful of overconfidence. (1 Cor 10:12)

Look in a mirror woman. JWs teach on one hand
that physically dying pays for their sins so they will be auto- resurrected sinless!
On the other hand-- oh yeah well--- Jesus died for our sins.. I mean... uhh we would stay dead if it wasn't for him.
UTEER NONSENSE. A lie for the pit, Jane.
You see no problem there. it's absurd and terribly unbiblical to believe that your dead body is paying for a thing. The wages of sin is death- that means God pays you your wage which you have earned which is DEATH. You don't become auto-sinless by dying. Cut me a break lol It is what you earned. You are being paid your wage. You are not making a payment to God for a sin free ticket! You can't afford to pay your sin debt!! It is impossible. You've sinned- you are not blameless and spotless-
ONLY JESUS IS WORTHY! If you die in your sins tomorrow (without Jesus's blood washing your sins away) you will not have LIFE.
Jesus did not pay half so that you could die to pay for the other half. He did it all. Only He could.
Aside from wages of sin is death which you have so mixed up.. show me elsewhere in the scriptures anywhere where it say your sins are blotted out by dying! Nowhere! You know why?
IT's a lie, Jane-- and I really hope you can see that.
and freed from sins in Ro 6:7- try reading that in context please--- and check it with Ro 6:18 and Col 3:3 and Gal 2:20
You teach that you are not born again- and neither can we be-- maybe that's why you can not comprehend it. Paul is speaking about it there.
So please at least know what you are speaking about before speaking.

Those being saved are not in the confident majority. (Matt 7:13-14; 21-23)

Narrow is the gate yes. Jesus is the gate. There is no other way. Go to Him. You refuse. It would be idolatry to you.. What is there to say?
Few find it. Most are glued to their manmade RELIGION. JWs sure are a clear case of that.
and let's see last but not least we have the JW all time favorite-- READ context Jane. why do JWs insist on never reading in context??
He is speaking about....? hint..
(false prophets who come as wolves in sheep clothing)
Repent or go away.

 

[PS95]

Thank you, I appreciate you acknowledging that. It's not like what JWs believe is not freely available on their website or anything, so it's not hard to know what JWs believe.


I'm telling the truth about Jehovah's Witnesses, but you don't like it.


You're not one of His disciples.


Tell us all about how you believe that your death will pay for your sins instead of the blood of Christ.

From the Jehovah's Witnesses official website:

"However, Paul also explains that a person “who has died has been acquitted from his sin.” (Romans 6:7) When a person dies, he is set free, or released, from any sins he has committed. That is why there is no reason to think that the dead continue to suffer somewhere because of their past mistakes."

Quoted from https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/bible-verses/romans-6-23/

Bravo my brother! Only in the Lord!!!

 

[marks]

You initially state that they (A&E) would become “immortal” if they ate from the tree of life, and yet these are mortal humans who rely on all the external means that God supplied on this earth to keep them living.

I simply share with you what the Bible says. ". . . and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever . . ."

It sounds like you don't accept it. That's up to you.

Much love!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

There is only one Jesus, and he is not what Christendom claims him to be.

Define "Christendom". Do you define that as all who claim to be Christians besides Jehovah's Witnesses?

The “deceptiveness” of Christendom’s teachings is much older than any of its many denominations…..your Jesus is an invention of fourth century Roman Catholicism…..inherited when her ‘daughters’ left home and continued to carve the savior up among themselves. The body of Christ exists in a dismembered state…..do you really think God would allow or approve of that?

Is it deceptive to claim that Jesus is God when He claimed that Himself? No, of course not. It's deceptive to claim that He is not God.

John 8:58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”

Exodus 3:14 God said to Moses, “I am who I am. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I am has sent me to you.’”

John 20:28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

Philippians 2:5 In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;

Colossians 1:15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Genesis 1:26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

 

[PS95]

Define "Christendom". Do you define that as all who claim to be Christians besides Jehovah's Witnesses?


Is it deceptive to claim that Jesus is God when He claimed that Himself? No, of course not. It's deceptive to claim that He is not God.

John 8:58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”

Exodus 3:14 God said to Moses, “I am who I am. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I am has sent me to you.’”

John 20:28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

Philippians 2:5 In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;

Colossians 1:15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Genesis 1:26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

Rev 5 -
Then I looked, and I heard the voices of many angels around the throne and the living creatures and the elders; and the number of them was myriads of myriads, and thousands of thousands, 12saying with a loud voice,

“Worthy is the Lamb that was slaughtered to receive power, wealth, wisdom, might, honor, glory, and blessing.” 13And I heard every created thing which is in heaven, or on the earth, or under the earth, or on the sea, and all the things in them, saying,
“To Him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be the blessing, the honor, the glory, and the dominion forever and ever.” 14And the four living creatures were saying, “Amen.” And the elders fell down and worshiped.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Let me see if I can explain it more simply……?

First of all, who are the “saints”? These are Christ’s elect or chosen ones….so what role are they chosen for?

Rev 20:6 tells us….

“Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.” (ESV)

So those who experience the “first resurrection” are raised immortal…”the second (permanent) death” has no power over them. These are raised with spirit bodies like the angels so as to reign with Christ in heaven.

All the apostles and disciples believed that Christ would return visibly to the earth and establish the Kingdom of Israel from Jerusalem, as stated in Acts 1:6 and other passages. Scripture confirms this hope: “The Deliverer will come from Zion” (Romans 11), echoing Isaiah 59: “And a Redeemer will come to Zion, to those in Jacob who turn from transgression,” declares the Lord. — Isaiah 59:20

Given this, where does the idea of Christ reigning from heaven originate?

You’ve departed from the Lord’s teaching on the reward of the saints, that they will be equal to, or like, the angels. Christ was speaking specifically about the nature they will share: immortality.

They are genderless, so like the angels they do not marry. There is no actual gender in heaven because there is no reproduction. God and his spirit sons are portrayed as male, but there is no real gender in heaven. All who live there are created, not born. (Jesus is the exception of course, as he was born as a human on earth)

Angels are on earth and they have no gender, the Saints will be the same on earth.

And he dreamed, and behold, there was a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven. And behold, the angels of God were ascending and descending on it! Ge 28:12.

This proves the angels were on earth, ascending (first) and descending.

Where did you get the idea that the angels were created? Does God change?

And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him. Heb 11:6.

You must believe that God grants reward (immortality) without trial or testing?

My concern has gone up a notch.

As above…the saints are not subject to the second death but are resurrected with spirit bodies like other sons of God. Among those spirit sons there is rank and order, but these “joint-heirs with Christ“ will be of a higher standing than angels, but in the same form as they are.

Jesus's teaching is precise that the Saints and the Angels share immortality.

As Paul said in 1 Cor 6:1-3…
“Does any one of you who has a dispute with another dare to go to court before unrighteous men, and not before the holy ones? 2 Or do you not know that the holy ones will judge the world? And if the world is to be judged by you, are you not competent to try very trivial matters? 3 Do you not know that we will judge angels?”

So the “saints” or “holy ones” will judge the world, and even the angels…..they will rule with Jesus in his Kingdom.

You have used an interesting text. Paul's argument here is from tradition as he starts each part beginning with “Do you not know” and continuing with “If,” followed by a rhetorical question drawing out the implications of the information given in the tradition.

I believe you’ll find that in matters of law and judgment, it is the saints who will direct the angels, and this will take place on earth, not in heaven. This is not unlike Christ’s promise to the twelve apostles, that they would sit (on thrones) as judges over the twelve tribes of Israel in the Kingdom age.

What do you think satan and his demons were? Those once faithful angels will rue the day they chose to disobey their Creator. What is their destiny? Jesus tells us that they bound for “the lake of fire”. So even though spirit beings have no natural cause of death, they can still be destroyed by God for their crimes against him and against those who worship him in faith.

I can see where your narrative has taken you. More concern!

Yes, their state of being is like the angels….they are raised as Jesus was, ready for life in heaven….they are raised as spirits……humans cannot survive there. We mortals are confined to the earth that supplies our life support. We cannot survive outside of earth’s atmosphere….the higher you go the less oxygen there is.

The “saints” will be raised immortal, but the angels never were. They can be put to death only by God as will be deonstrated with satan and his demons….the lake of fire is their final destiny.

For they cannot die anymore, because they are equal to angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. Luke 20:36 (ESV)

We are told Angels are the Sons of God and they "behold His Face" always!

See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that in heaven their angels always behold the face of my Father who is in heaven.

Perhaps you could point to a place in the Gospel accounts where your view is supported, that angels were merely created beings and do not share in God's nature (immortal)?

 

[Aunty Jane]

Are you not following the discussion? What I said was in relation to what Hiddenthings said to you, which was this:

So, you create a contradiction by saying that angels do not have immortality even though scripture says we will put on immortality (1 Cor 15:50-54) and will be like the angels in the sense of never dying (Luke 20:36).

There are a few who are not “following the discussion”….

There is no contradiction. Once more….
How are the elect like the angels? They become spirit beings who are taken to an entirely different realm to take up the role of “kings and priests” in the heavenly kingdom. (Rev 20:6) Angels are spirits who have no external means of life support, which means that their lives are selfsustaining in ways we mere mortals cannot yet comprehend. But their Creator has the means to take their lives if they fail to obey him. All of God’s children have free will and can have their lives terminated if they break the laws of their Creator.

An immortal cannot die, which is why God withholds it from his servants until they have proven themselves faithful even in the face of death. Christ’s elect have done so, and will be rewarded accordingly at their resurrection.

Tell us all about how you believe that your death will pay for your sins instead of the blood of Christ.

From the Jehovah's Witnesses official website:

"However, Paul also explains that a person “who has died has been acquitted from his sin.” (Romans 6:7) When a person dies, he is set free, or released, from any sins he has committed. That is why there is no reason to think that the dead continue to suffer somewhere because of their past mistakes."

Let me demonstrate how people twist what we believe….

If Paul stated that at death we are “acquitted (“dikaioō”) from sin”, having paid sin’s wages, we have therefore served the stated sentence, and like all prisoners who have done so, are released with a clean slate from that day forward. You don’t go on punishing people who have served their time.

God does not sentence sinners to ECT because that is not the purpose of the resurrection. There are no “immortal souls” in the Bible….it is NOT a Bible teaching, so there is nowhere for “souls” to be tormented or to suffer in any way after death. Death is the penalty for any sin committed under the law, deserving of such a sentence. God’s law never required torture for any crime.

It is the blood of Christ that frees sinners from death…..it is not according to anything we have earned….Jesus came to rescue us from the death sentence we inherited from Adam. Those in their graves will be raised out of them by Jesus…..as he says….
John 5:28-29…
”Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.“ (ESV)
This is the majority of mankind who are still held captive in those graves.

The whole purpose of the resurrection, (as opposed to immortality of the soul), is to bring the dead back to life. Where are they? They are still in their graves (tombs). They haven’t gone anywhere, because a soul is not a disembodied spirit…..a “soul” is a living, breathing creature who has lost its ability to sustain its own life. Animals too are “souls” who die the same death that we do. (Eccl 3:19-20) The only superiority we have over them is the resurrection.

There are two resurrections indicated by Jesus speaking about “the first resurrection” of God’s elect (Rev 20:6) so another was to follow as he said in John 5, which is the general resurrection back to life on this earth where God put us humans in the first place.

When you study theology instead of the Bible, you are led down a path of lies invented by the sower of the “weeds” that Jesus warned us about. These weeds were not sown recently…..but were beginning to sprout even at the end of the first century….and the rest is a sad and sorry history of “the church”.

You want a definition of “Christendom”?….they are the “weeds” sown by the devil. They all teach the same basic lies, but are broken up into bickering factions that they call “denominations”, so that confusion reigns as to who is actually teaching the truth….I was raised in one of those…..but Jesus has never set foot in any those churches. His response to the false Christians is…. “I never knew you”…..”NEVER” means “not ever. (Matt 7:21-23)

 

[Nancy]

​

Ephesians 2:4-10​

The phrase "No good works, no rewards but the soul shall be saved" emphasizes that salvation is not achieved through human efforts or deeds "12. It is a gift from God received through faith2. The verse from Ephesians 2:4-10 states that we are God's handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do."​

No good works, no rewards but the soul shall be saved - Bing

Intelligent search from Bing makes it easier to quickly find what you’re looking for and rewards you.

www.bing.com

​

Romans 8:9-11​

"9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.​

10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.​

11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you."​

​

It seems as though there is confusion between good works and the fruit of the Spirit. ​

I thought it was that our "works" will be burned up if we have no good works, but the soul will be saved but, no rewards will be given. And if we be bear the 9 fruits of the Spirit, His life remains in us. So, the two cannot mean the same thing...I'm confused ​

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​

 

[Dan Clarkston]

We don't need to keep our Salvation.

Actually we do as we are called to abide IN Christ.

Those that don't are taken away according to Jesus in John 15.

Ever read what Jesus said in John 15?

 

[Aunty Jane]

Is it deceptive to claim that Jesus is God when He claimed that Himself? No, of course not. It's deceptive to claim that He is not God.

I have addressed all those verses so many times, but your ‘programming’ is worse than you think mine is.

None of them say what you think they do, as a thorough study of the Bible will reveal. Jesus never once said he was God with a capital “g”. Original language word studies will completely undo what you think those translations are saying.

I will give you just one short statement from the apostles as to whom they believed their God was…..
1 Cor 8:5-6…
”For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”— yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, AND one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.“ (ESV)

Were the apostles in any doubt about who was their “one God”? All were Jewish, so to suggest that Jesus was anything other than what he said about himself would have been blasphemy….and the Jews would have had a provable case.

Read John 10:31-36 and see that calling someone a “god” (theos) was not calling them Yahweh.
Calling them “Lord” is a title of respect. God himself called human judges in Israel “gods” because they represented him. Jesus said he was “the son of God”.….because that is what he was.

 

[Aunty Jane]

It seems as though there is confusion between good works and the fruit of the Spirit.
I thought it was that our "works" will be burned up if we have no good works, but the soul will be saved but, no rewards will be given. And if we be bare the 9 fruits of the Spirit, His life remains in us. So, the two cannot mean the same thing...I'm confused

No amount of good works can earn us life…..but OTOH our faith is proven by good works, as James stated….”faith without works is dead”…..just like works without faith is useless. We need both, and the motivation has to come from a heart filled with love for God and his son.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Is it deceptive to claim that Jesus is God when He claimed that Himself? No, of course not. It's deceptive to claim that He is not God.

John 8:58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”

Hey Spiritual, do you think there could be another way of interpreting this verse? Or only one way?