Do you support Black Lives Matter?

[Grailhunter]

Let's not forget that one of the original Thirteen Colonies - Maryland, was envisioned as a haven for Catholics who were persecuted in England.

Have not forgotten that

 

[Prayer Warrior]

@Grailhunter @BreadOfLife @Yehren and anyone else interested!!

Since we're off topic discussing American's founding on this thread, I started a new thread for this topic. You can find it here:

Did America Have a Christian Founding?

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Oops.

 

[Brakelite]

Lumen Gentium made very clear that the Church regards Christians outside the Roman Catholic Church, as brothers in Christ.

The Church recognizes that in many ways she is linked with those who, being baptized, are honored with the name of Christian, though they do not profess the faith in its entirety or do not preserve unity of communion with the successor of Peter. (14*) For there are many who honor Sacred Scripture, taking it as a norm of belief and a pattern of life, and who show a sincere zeal. They lovingly believe in God the Father Almighty and in Christ, the Son of God and Saviour. (15*) They are consecrated by baptism, in which they are united with Christ. They also recognize and accept other sacraments within their own Churches or ecclesiastical communities. Many of them rejoice in the episcopate, celebrate the Holy Eucharist and cultivate devotion toward the Virgin Mother of God.(16*) They also share with us in prayer and other spiritual benefits. Likewise we can say that in some real way they are joined with us in the Holy Spirit, for to them too He gives His gifts and graces whereby He is operative among them with His sanctifying power. Some indeed He has strengthened to the extent of the shedding of their blood.
DOGMATIC CONSTITUTION ON THE CHURCH
LUMEN GENTIUM
SOLEMNLY PROMULGATED BY HIS HOLINESS
POPE PAUL VI
ON NOVEMBER 21, 1964

This Vatican Council declares that the human person has a right to religious freedom. This freedom means that all men are to be immune from coercion on the part of individuals or of social groups and of any human power, in such wise that no one is to be forced to act in a manner contrary to his own beliefs, whether privately or publicly, whether alone or in association with others, within due limits.
DECLARATION ON RELIGIOUS FREEDOM
DIGNITATIS HUMANAE
ON THE RIGHT OF THE PERSON AND OF COMMUNITIES
TO SOCIAL AND CIVIL FREEDOM IN MATTERS RELIGIOUS
PROMULGATED BY HIS HOLINESS
POPE PAUL VI
ON DECEMBER 7, 1965

"Due limits" has to do with imposing one's own religious beliefs on others. Human sacrifice, for example, would be outside the "due limits." So would religiously-sanctioned theft of property, and so on.

The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men. Indeed, she proclaims, and ever must proclaim Christ "the way, the truth, and the life" (John 14:6), in whom men may find the fullness of religious life, in whom God has reconciled all things to Himself.
DECLARATION ON
THE RELATION OF THE CHURCH TO NON-CHRISTIAN RELIGIONS
NOSTRA AETATE
PROCLAIMED BY HIS HOLINESS
POPE PAUL VI
ON OCTOBER 28, 1965

Now you may think that because that pope wrote a few letters to the effect that religious freedom is now all the go in Vatican circles, 1500 years of war, persecution, hated and bigotry against anything not of Rome, suggests to me that the leopard has not, and despite protestations to the contrary, can not change her spots..

 

[Brakelite]

Again, most people are not historians. If you knew history, you would know that the founding fathers or anyone close to them were not thinking of atheism. If you follow the time period there is no one there that classified anything outside of Christianity as a religion. The author of the first religious freedom laws in the US had some thoughts on that:

"The bill for establishing religious freedom, the principles of which had, to a certain degree, been enacted before, I had drawn in all the latitude of reason and right. It still met with opposition; but, with some mutilations in the preamble, it was finally passed; and a singular proposition proved that its protection of opinion was meant to be universal. Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed, by inserting the word "Jesus Christ," so that it should read, "a departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by a great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mahometan, the Hindoo, and Infidel of every denomination."
Thomas Jefferson, Autobiograpy\


I keep telling people that you cannot read the Bible like it is the most recent edition of the local Sunday Paper. The same is true of history…you kinda got to figure out what is going on in their heads….Some of the people that came over from Europe were fleeing religious persecutions and the humorous side of that is that some of them were not tolerant of other religions. Then the Founding Father were looking at it from a different angle. They knew the history of Europe which was full of religious wars by governments that were controlled by religious factions. Although the writing (Constitution) looks like they were down playing God somewhat and it looks like they are concerned with keeping God out of government, actually it is not that and could not be further from the truth. They are not concerned with the government warming up to Christian religions, they are concerned with one Christian religion taking over the government….as in Europe. But even at that, as it relates to most of the founding fathers Christian religion permeated most of their actions in thoughts, governing, and their family life..their wives their children....

Catholicism was barely considered a religion in their thoughts at the time. Certainly Islam, Voodoo, Hinduism were not considered religions. Separation of Church and state is referring to the state showing preferences between Christian religions.

Not according to the Founders, who intended it to cover all religions, and even none at all.

Lol….again you have to consider what they are thinking. Straining to be fair but the Catholics were responsible for most of the terror and wars in Europe, and the founding fathers did not what that in America, nor the civil unrest between the Catholics and the Protestants. A lot of the Protestants and Catholics did not like each other….look on the forum here.,

And you are wrong to the extreme about an intent to cover all religions….lol known and unknown.

You can walk through history if you wish and show us how the constitutional statements have been used in the past to separate the United States from its Christian roots. Let's hear it. People have a tendency to re-interpret things and lately anything goes! Man-boy love... Voodoo... and a host of other religions....but as far as the thoughts of our founding fathers and most of American history, not a chance.

I suppose the Founders were less open about sexual freedom than we are, and I'm really sure that exploiting children was something they'd criminalize. But they clearly wanted freedom for any and all religious ideas; they explicitly said so.

Again wrong. And what is the point of sexual freedom? The only religion on the founding father’s minds were Christian religions. Produce a document that came from Congress where the founding fathers are discussing Voodoo...Islam.....Hinduism....or any religion that is not Christians.

And you will have to show me the document that specifically says, "freedom from religion" from the founding fathers.

The religious freedom clause has two parts.

Amendment I ****The topic is not about amendments*** Not concerned with Amendments.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. (my highlighting of the relevant clause)

The first prohibits government-imposed religion, and the second prohibits any restriction on religion by government. It doesn't say "freedom of religion", either. But the first part means we are free from imposed religion, and the second part means we are free of government interference in religion.

That's why Jefferson and Madison wanted both freedoms in the First Amendment.

The 14th Amendment required states to also observe our Constitutional rights. After that, no government could abuse our freedoms. In practice, most states, like Virginia, had constitutions that observed our rights, but not all of them did.

In the late 1800s it took an impassioned and erudite plea from Seventh Day Adventist, AT Jones before the US congressional sub committee to help defeat a proposal to introduce Sunday laws in Washington DC.
Interestingly, Sunday blue laws have been defended by the USSC on several occasions... Which does give rise to debate on how far certain freedoms are to be extended.

 

[Brakelite]

"things got better" with the influx into the usa of massive idolatrous and abominable practices , 'hidden' so to speak , few warning about that ?
more souls destroyed daily, as worldwide has been for many centuries ....
and "things got better" ? !

When Jesus Returns, yes, then things will be better.

Until then, nope. (except individually , in spirit and in truth, for those who the Father in heaven finds serving Him in Spirit and in Truth) ..... none of the leaven of the religious teachers thank you....

One thing you must remember when demanding freedom of religion for yourself. To only allow certain sects into your community and you having the final say as to who those should be, regardless of the numbers and diversity in the end result, is not religious freedom. That is religious toleration. And if one group is to tolerate the presence of another group, that whole concept allows, even presupposes the right to not tolerate that group, for whatever reason, next week.
The fact that Catholics were allowed into the country at all, was controversial and didn't come without opposition... Memories didn't have to be that long to remember the St. Bartholomew Day massacre and other atrocities of recent history... But in the principles of those most brilliant documents forged by mostly Protestant men, lay the foundation for the very real and blessed religious freedom now enjoyed by much of the western world. Sadly, Revelation 13 informs us that such a state of affairs will not last. I suggest you enjoy those freedoms, and make full use of them now, while they last.

 

[Brakelite]

@Grailhunter @BreadOfLife @Yehren and anyone else interested!!

Since we're off topic discussing American's founding on this thread, I started a new thread for this topic. You can find it here:

Did America Have a Christian Founding?

Hahahaha. I just realised.. Yes, it is off topic. Way off. Or is it?

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Hahahaha. I just realised.. Yes, it is off topic. Way off. Or is it?

I would be interested to know what you think of the article in the new thread.

 

[Yehren]

Now you may think that because that pope wrote a few letters to the effect that religious freedom is now all the go in Vatican circles,

It's the official doctrine of the Church, attested to by the Pope and the Bishops in council. Yes, both Catholics and Protestants did some horrible things in the past. But if you look at Protestant churches, most of them have equally libertarian stands on freedom of conscience. In fact, only some corrupted Protestant denominations have had hissy fits over the Catholic assertion that all people ,regardless of their religion, must be free to practice it, subject only to not imposing on the freedom of others.

And some of those went completely off the rails when The Church asserted that while homosexual behavior is intrinsically disordered and cannot be approved, homosexuals must not be unjustly discriminated against in any way.

 

[Candidus]

 

[Candidus]

 

[Candidus]

It's the official doctrine of the Church, attested to by the Pope and the Bishops in council. Yes, both Catholics and Protestants did some horrible things in the past. But if you look at Protestant churches, most of them have equally libertarian stands on freedom of conscience. In fact, only some corrupted Protestant denominations have had hissy fits over the Catholic assertion that all people ,regardless of their religion, must be free to practice it, subject only to not imposing on the freedom of others.

And some of those went completely off the rails when The Church asserted that while homosexual behavior is intrinsically disordered and cannot be approved, homosexuals must not be unjustly discriminated against in any way.

Homosexuals have an equal opportunity to repent and be saved.

 

[Yehren]

Homosexuals have an equal opportunity to repent and be saved.

That's the Catholic position. The Church is for sinners who are trying to do better. So they're welcome in the Church. Christians aren't members of the "my sins are nicer than your sins" club.

 

[Yehren]

And who's dumb enough to believe Democrats are offering free food, free housing, and free medical care? Black voters are a lot smarter than you think they are. It's why only about 7 percent of them support Trump.

We were constantly getting a refreshed list of who was going to be in the room. I will say that we were happy when we saw that Trump was going to be there. I think our best joke about him being a racist that night was: “Donald Trump said recently he has a great relationship with the blacks, but unless the Blacks are a family of white people, I bet he is mistaken.”
Seth Meyers

 

[Joseph77]

....

 

[Joseph77]

and never riot nor hurt anyone.

 

[Joseph77]

nvm

 

[Yehren]

No.
or yes?
It is for those who are not saved then ?

Jesus' Church is for sinners trying to do better. If you have no sin,you have no need of His Church.

 

[Joseph77]

from Leonard Ravenhill Quotes
'I don't raise the dead,

I preach to them....'

 

[Jacob Marley]

BLM are a marxist organization by their own decree. A few years ago they even called our PM Justin Trudeau a "White Supremacist Terrorist" ....Trudeau of all people. There are BLM protests in some of our most peaceful cities. No surprise they're in bed with Antifa.