Do you think only people aged 25 should be allowed to use and own guns?

[bluedragon]

This is a prime example of the reason for private ownership in America ....in fact two reasons.

1. We got our belief in private gun ownership by way of the British Empire. The right to keep and bear arms is British law.

2. Two years after WW2. Two Admirals are sitting at dinner. Years earlier they were mortal enemies. The American Admiral asked his Japanese counterpart ....."You had us on the ropes. The fleet could not defend the West Coast. Why didn't you invade?" The Japanese Admiral responded "We knew that every other home in America had a gun. Americans use and practice with their guns. We were certain that behind every other blade of grass, there would be an American with his gun, defending his homeland. We could not win that war."

We can't help that the Europeans have given up their soverinty for globalism. Can't help the fact that Europe started their surrender two years before we did. Can't help the fact that Europe will suffer at the hands of the elites this winter ...Choose your new Nazi Gerany or the Empire of Japan ..... we'll rise up once again and beat back those who want to crush and destroy Chrisitanity and Democracy ...As long as we can overcome the socialists ....we'll be there to save you from yourselves.

 

[GEN2REV]

There has been a massive surge in gun violence over the past year or so, and in truth, I found the incident with the elementary school deaths particularly harrowing and disturbing.

Some Democrats have been loudly calling for the legal age to be raised to 25, in order to help "prevent" future deaths. I don't know how I feel towards this, exactly. I do think young people should be taught life skills and personal responsibility from early on if possible, but today's generation is so immature and sheltered and attached to their parents well after college that perhaps they aren't mature enough to use lethal weapons. I was discussing this with a friend of mine a while ago, over whether teenagers should be allowed to use weapons or not.

I know that in the U.S. and Europe, for example, it was very common even 30 or 40 years ago, for lots of teenagers to move out, get a job and start a family after basic education, but it seems much less commonplace today. And I do think that America has one of the higher drinking ages at the age of 21, while Europeans are much more lenient in that regard.
The Invention of Adolescence
'Boys Will Be Boys'? No, Adolescence Is A 20th Century Invention

And yet, we still allow young men to join the military even at age 17, and still try teenagers as adults for very serious crimes, including very recently. And 30 states permit children before they are teenagers to use guns:
"In 30 states, it’s legal for a child to possess a rifle or shotgun, which advocates say teaches them to use guns responsibly – but critics see it laying a path for danger."
My first rifle: how young is too young to operate a gun?

So my point is, American laws and norms seem to be all the over the place, and are extremely confusing and contradictory sometimes. So regarding this specific issue, do you think the Democrats are correct, guys? I mean, should the age be increased to 25 or not? Would that help prevent future deaths by gun violence?

Only one question comes to mind.

Do you honestly and sincerely believe it would make a difference?

 

[Scott Downey]

If you're old enough to fight and die for your country using a weapon provided to you thereby, you're old enough to also own a weapon outside of the military.

I am thinking exactly the same thing.
This country gives high tech weaponry to 18 yr olds in the military. If they bind gun ownerships to age 25, that sets up a strange double standard. The answer is then set military age at 25! No way that will fly.

 

[Scott Downey]

Some people should not be allowed gun ownership at any age. But you don't know they have criminal minds until they do criminal acts.

Just the way it is, and we are supposedly innocent until proven guilty.

 

[GEN2REV]

Perhaps...it seems like such a complex issue for lots of different people. Some Democrats seem to want to allow teenagers the right to vote as well as girls to get abortions without parental approval - but they seem to also want to increase the drinking and the gun ages.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/policy-2020/voting-changes/lower-voting-age/

I fight that kind of contradictory, but I don't pretend to understand the conflicting morals and constantly changing views and opinions of the American left.

Do you think that young adults have become too sheltered and nihilistic, that perhaps that is partly why so many teenagers today commit such violent mass shootings? Mental illness is increasing rapidly, and society is starting to break down. I heard that in the past, most American men left home immediately after completing high school, got a decent job, and started a family shortly afterwards.

Do you realize how much severe damage media, of every kind, is doing to society?

From Facebook to News to video games and movies. We are sending messages to the citizens of the world that are destroying people's minds and morals at a deplorable rate.

We wage wars against drugs and alcohol while advertising both in every single show and movie there is. Start noticing how many characters in movies never put down a cigarette or a beer/liquor drink. We sell alcohol in every bar and restaurant and on almost all of the rest of the street corners, but how dare you drink a few and drive.

We are constantly sending mixed signals to our youth that lead their subconscious minds to believe one thing while their conscious minds claim otherwise.

This world is so evil right under the very surface that it would take a complete renovation of our entire infrastructure to put things right again. And do you know what the very first thing that would need to be done is?

GET RID OF YOUR TELEVISION AND ALL YOUR DEVICES WITH SCREENS!!

(Yes, I'm using one now because that's the ocean I'm stuck in.)

If that were to happen, the societies of the world would literally change for the better over night.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Well you're not from the USA, we have a citizen and military oath that includes domestic enemies of the constitution. We are currently seeing enemies of the constitution:

I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion

No Christian can take an oath like that. Our first loyalty and obedience is to God, not any nation.
We are to be model citizens of the nation we live in so as not to bring reproach on our God, but no government can tell us to break God’s law. “Thou shalt not murder” is part of the Ten Commandments.

Christians have no sanction from God to kill anyone....if the world wants to slaughter one another, that is up to them....Jesus told us not to be part of that world. (John 17:14; John 18:36)

At present, Russia and the Ukraine are at war, yet both claim to be “Christian” nations. The Russian Orthodox church are supporting the killing of their own brothers of the Ukraine Orthodox church.....1 John 4:20-21 has no meaning for them.

Obedience to God has to take first place because the devil loves nothing more than divided loyalties.

 

[bluedragon]

Some people should not be allowed gun ownership at any age. But you don't know they have criminal minds until they do criminal acts.

Just the way it is, and we are supposedly innocent until proven guilty.

I took my Stepson to the range once. ONCE
Before we left, I had him apologize to every person on the range ...

Heading home ...."The next time I tell you to not touch anything, listen carefully to what I say. Bullets have no mind of their own ....they go where they are pointed toward" .... We had a long talk about gun safety and why you don't point a gun at everyone on the range. You might get shot at in return ....He doesn't own a gun to this day ...

 

[bluedragon]

No Christian can take an oath like that. Our first loyalty and obedience is to God, not any nation.
We are to be model citizens of the nation we live in so as not to bring reproach on our God, but no government can tell us to break God’s law. “Thou shalt not murder” is part of the Ten Commandments.

Christians have no sanction from God to kill anyone....if the world wants to slaughter one another, that is up to them....Jesus told us not to be part of that world. (John 17:14; John 18:36)

At present, Russia and the Ukraine are at war, yet both claim to be “Christian” nations. The Russian Orthodox church are supporting the killing of their own brothers of the Ukraine Orthodox church.....1 John 4:20-21 has no meaning for them.

Obedience to God has to take first place because the devil loves nothing more than divided loyalties.

There are plenty of Christians that have taken that oath and are the very reason, you are not speaking Japanese to this day ....I bet Jesus has dismissed all charges .....regardless of the Holier than thou attitude ....

 

[dev553344]

No Christian can take an oath like that. Our first loyalty and obedience is to God, not any nation.
We are to be model citizens of the nation we live in so as not to bring reproach on our God, but no government can tell us to break God’s law. “Thou shalt not murder” is part of the Ten Commandments.

Christians have no sanction from God to kill anyone....if the world wants to slaughter one another, that is up to them....Jesus told us not to be part of that world. (John 17:14; John 18:36)

At present, Russia and the Ukraine are at war, yet both claim to be “Christian” nations. The Russian Orthodox church are supporting the killing of their own brothers of the Ukraine Orthodox church.....1 John 4:20-21 has no meaning for them.

Obedience to God has to take first place because the devil loves nothing more than divided loyalties.

As if military personnel cannot be good Christians, or police for that matter. And the oath is a good Christian oath to protect freedom of religion. You're arguments are invalid. The bible teaches us to carry our swords. What you're trying to teach is unrighteous dominion by some false god country. Which would have happened in any of the wars that the USA was involved in to defend this free land so we can worship the true God.

Luke 22:36-38
36 Then He said to them, “But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one. 37 For I say to you that this which is written must still be accomplished in Me: ‘And He was numbered with the transgressors.’ For the things concerning Me have an end.”

38 So they said, “Lord, look, here are two swords.”

And He said to them, “It is enough.”

 

[Grailhunter]

Wrong thinking and right thinking!
No one likes to see children hurt or killed in school. But what is the solution? There is no 100% guarantee. Ever heard that you can't fix stupid....well you can't fix what is going on in these guy's minds. And that is the point....we cannot control their minds and gun control is not the answer....only mindless political rhetoric.

God, Guns, and Guts....part of America. There are enough guns in the US to arm every citizen, maybe twice. Gun confiscation would start a well armed civil war. We already have enough gun control....but Guns are not trying to shoot people. The problem is the people, dealing with mental health, and inadequate security in a crazy drug legalized world.

Schools need adequate security with armed people....trained teachers or armed guards. With signs that read SCHOOL SECURITY PREASENT---DEADLY FORCE AUTHORIZED! It is sad thing that we need to do this....but it is a sad and crazy world...and we are not going to fix that, but we can protect our children. Not just from guns! The internet will provide the information needed to make bombs out of household products....sharpened butter knives....they going to try to register butter knives?

With a sign like that, parents of children that have emotional or mental issues might consider another alternative. Also those parent that know their children have issues should be held responsible, like prison time.

Schools that observe young adults with emotional or mental issues should remove these children and require other alternatives.

We have nearly condoned this sort of thing for years....by not addressing it. Grocery stores can be sued for negligence....wet spot on the floor....Children's lives.....negligence? Not enough security. We have nearly condoned this sort of thing for years....child molesters and people that harm children.....need a swift stroll to the electric chair.

Now with Covid 19 there are systems in place for home schooling.....Children that do not get along with others won't be stressed out at home and the school is safe from them.

The problem is people....you can punish a gun....beat a gun....not an effective focus of attention.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Wrong thinking and right thinking!
No one likes to see children hurt or killed in school. But what is the solution? There is no 100% guarantee. Ever heard that you can't fix stupid....well you can't fix what is going on in these guy's minds. And that is the point....we cannot control their minds and gun control is not the answer....only mindless political rhetoric.

God, Guns, and Guts....part of America. There are enough guns in the US to arm every citizen, maybe twice. Gun confiscation would start a well armed civil war. We already have enough gun control....but Guns are not trying to shoot people. The problem is the people, dealing with mental health, and inadequate security in a crazy drug legalized world.

Schools need adequate security with armed people....trained teachers or armed guards. With signs that read SCHOOL SECURITY PREASENT---DEADLY FORCE AUTHORIZED! It is sad thing that we need to do this....but it is a sad and crazy world...and we are not going to fix that, but we can protect or children. Not just from guns! The internet will provide the information needed to make bombs out of household products....sharpened butter knives....they going to try to register butter knives?

With a sign like that, parents of children that have emotional or mental issues might consider another alternative. Also those parent that know their children have issues should be held responsible, like prison time.

Schools that observe young adults with emotional or mental issues should remove these children and require other alternatives.

We have nearly condoned this sort of thing for years....by not addressing it. Grocery stores can be sued for negligence....wet spot on the floor....Children's lives.....negligence? Not enough security. We have nearly condoned this sort of thing for years....child molesters and people that harm children.....need a swift stroll to the electric chair.

Now with Covid 19 there are systems in place for home schooling.....Children that do not get along with others won't be stressed out at home and the school is safe from them.

The problem is people....you can punish a gun....beat a gun....not an effective focus of attention.

Agreed. The next option would be pipe bombs or something similar...and if that was to happen would we have to ban all materials a bomb could be made of? Oh mercy....
I was just discussing this yesterday with a friend. I said that every public school should have every child take a mental exam given every 3 years...just to measure where their thought process is.
And those who display aggressive and rebellious attitudes (or even those who have serious social issues) tested and even offered counseling if needed.
This would be preventative action and perhaps change any possible outcome had they not took these steps.

 

[Grailhunter]

Agreed. The next option would be pipe bombs or something similar...and if that was to happen would we have to ban all materials a bomb could be made of? Oh mercy....
I was just discussing this yesterday with a friend. I said that every public school should have every child take a mental exam given every 3 years...just to measure where their thought process is.
And those who display aggressive and rebellious attitudes (or even those who have serious social issues) tested and even offered counseling if needed.
This would be preventative action and perhaps change any possible outcome had they not took these steps.

Ya said a mouthful there sister! Totally agree.
And you know giving the teachers some basic training in psychology would not be that hard, for one thing I think some have that training anyway, they just need the authority to act on it.

 

[Wrangler]

Why do you need to carry guns in the first place?

"Need" is about communism. Rights are about liberty, which is freedom in a social context. The question is why do we have the right to carry guns in the first place?

A Republic is when the government fears the people and Tyranny is when the people fear their government. So, the basic reason to have firearms is to guard against a tyrannical government.

The right to firearms is the manifestation of the ancient right to appeal to heaven, the right to revolution. Consent does not submit to any moral authority beyond one's own conscience. Sometimes, this shows itself in civil disobedience. Other times in violence, e.g., war of independence, revolution or sedition (civil war). Have you ever considered the difference between a revolutionary war and a civil war?

For civilization is predicated on the Rule of Law supported by the consent of the governed and it rests on the Law of the Jungle - the recognition that the world always was and always will be ruled by the effective use of force. The civilized must always be willing to be more violent than the barbarian and history shows this is never more true than when government trades their just powers for tyrannical barbarism. For instance, in America, we are highly divided on the morality of slaughtering babies for convenience, the cause of more American death over the last half century than any other cause. The boxes that safeguard liberty:

1. Soap Box
2. Voting Box
3. Jury Box
4. Cartridge Box

To secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
Thomas Jefferson, Declaration of Independence

 

[Wrangler]

I said that every public school should have every child take a mental exam given every 3 years...just to measure where their thought process is.

I shutter at the parallels to Soviet Russia who put their political opponents into mental institutions, aka "re-education" indoctrination camps.

No, I think there ought to be Separation of Education and State as there is Church and for the same reason. Reclaiming prayer, corporal punishment, the Bible, failing and expelling would make a world of difference.

Schools not having the power to fail students is a perversion of equality that all students are equally capable.

And those who display aggressive and rebellious attitudes (or even those who have serious social issues) tested and even offered counseling if needed.

No. Schools ought to reclaim the power to expel students. If they have psychological problems, we as a society have to recognize dealing with such problems is outside the purview of education. It's a health issue not an education issue. The scope of education has to return to it's proper place for success to be possible.

 

[Triumph1300]

And yet, we still allow young men to join the military even at age 17, and still try teenagers as adults for very serious crimes, including very recently.

Exactly.
Democrats are hypocrites.
Socialists are destroying the country.
Same story in Canada.
An ungodly bunch, promoting abortions, same sex relationships, and messing up de public school system.
And of course messing up the justice system.

 

[LouisWilliams]

Only one question comes to mind.

Do you honestly and sincerely believe it would make a difference?

As I have stated, I'm honestly not sure. I'm a younger guy myself, and I can tell you, the narcissism and self-absorption and anger of the future generation of Americans is frankly quite incredible. Lots of them hate religion and spirituality, and think atheism is trendy or the future of America, that is their right of course, but they have nothing to fill that emptiness inside of them except popular entertainment or drugs and alcohol - they lack any sense of higher meaning and purpose.

The question would be whether today, the right to gun own a gun should remain a gun...or rather a privilege. Nor can we deny any longer that many, perhaps even MOST, of the most of these mass shootings over the past several decades were committed by very young Americans in high school or college.

A Disturbing New Pattern in Mass Shootings: Young Assailants
Mass Shootings, Young Men, and What Can Be Done
The U.S. is uniquely terrible at protecting children from gun violence

"Six of the nine deadliest mass shootings in the United States since 2018 were by people who were 21 or younger, a shift from earlier decades."

"In 2020, 45,222 people died from gun-related injuries, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention — about 124 people each day. Of those, 54% were suicides, and 43% were murders, according to a Pew Research Center analysis. Other firearm-related deaths were unintentional, involved law enforcement or had undetermined circumstances, according to Pew.
According to the Brady Campaign to End Gun Violence, nearly 8,000 children and teens on average were shot and more than 1,600 died each year between 2015 and 2019. Of those who died, 52% were murdered, 40% died from gun suicide and 5% were killed unintentionally."

The horrible atrocity in Texas only months ago literally killed 19 elementary school children. Regardless of Democrat and Republican, yes, we MUST do "something" to stop this violence. Perhaps it is also related to drug addiction or the worsening mental and emotional health crisis, I'm not sure. But we can't just pretend "it's part of our lives, whatever" and shrug at this point. As responsible Christians, I think we must try to change something, at least make some effort.

 

[GEN2REV]

As I have stated, I'm honestly not sure. I'm a younger guy myself, and I can tell you, the narcissism and self-absorption and anger of the future generation of Americans is frankly quite incredible. Lots of them hate religion and spirituality, and think atheism is trendy or the future of America, that is their right of course, but they have nothing to fill that emptiness inside of them except popular entertainment or drugs and alcohol - they lack any sense of higher meaning and purpose.

The question would be whether today, the right to gun own a gun should remain a gun...or rather a privilege. Nor can we deny any longer that many, perhaps even MOST, of the most of these mass shootings over the past several decades were committed by very young Americans in high school or college.

A Disturbing New Pattern in Mass Shootings: Young Assailants
Mass Shootings, Young Men, and What Can Be Done
The U.S. is uniquely terrible at protecting children from gun violence

"Six of the nine deadliest mass shootings in the United States since 2018 were by people who were 21 or younger, a shift from earlier decades."

"In 2020, 45,222 people died from gun-related injuries, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention — about 124 people each day. Of those, 54% were suicides, and 43% were murders, according to a Pew Research Center analysis. Other firearm-related deaths were unintentional, involved law enforcement or had undetermined circumstances, according to Pew.
According to the Brady Campaign to End Gun Violence, nearly 8,000 children and teens on average were shot and more than 1,600 died each year between 2015 and 2019. Of those who died, 52% were murdered, 40% died from gun suicide and 5% were killed unintentionally."

The horrible atrocity in Texas only months ago literally killed 19 elementary school children. Regardless of Democrat and Republican, yes, we MUST do "something" to stop this violence. Perhaps it is also related to drug addiction or the worsening mental and emotional health crisis, I'm not sure. But we can't just pretend "it's part of our lives, whatever" and shrug at this point. As responsible Christians, I think we must try to change something, at least make some effort.

I think the vast majority agree something must be done, but the official theories, and efforts, are nowhere near sufficient.

Like I said, taking every single gun off the face of the earth is not going to solve the problem at all. It's as bad as modern medicine treating a symptom instead of the root cause of illness. The root problem will only rear its ugly head in a different way.

There is also the very real scenario that many of these mass shootings are being perpetuated by those who intend to change the laws and outlaw firearms. For that reason, it is pointless to consider changing laws, or anything else, to try and keep anybody from getting firearms; because it becomes clear that it is not the public at large that is the true problem.

It is the Political and Corporate powers that are at the heart of the problem.

Because they run everything, the only real opportunity we have as citizens to protect ourselves and our loved ones is to surrender our lives to God Almighty and pray for His help against Giants that we cannot possibly overcome by our own strength or will.

 

[LouisWilliams]

I think the vast majority agree something must be done, but the official theories, and efforts, are nowhere near sufficient.

Like I said, taking every single gun off the face of the earth is not going to solve the problem at all. It's as bad as modern medicine treating a symptom instead of the root cause of illness. The root problem will only rear its ugly head in a different way.

There is also the very real scenario that many of these mass shootings are being perpetuated by those who intend to change the laws and outlaw firearms. For that reason, it is pointless to consider changing laws, or anything else, to try and keep anybody from getting firearms; because it becomes clear that it is not the public at large that is the true problem.

It is the Political and Corporate powers that are at the heart of the problem.

Because they run everything, the only real opportunity we have as citizens to protect ourselves and our loved ones is to surrender our lives to God Almighty and pray for His help against Giants that we cannot possibly overcome by our own strength or will.

I do think that the worsening mental health crisis, and the popularity of drugs in today's society, have certainly been major contributing factors. I am not saying anything should be "banned", per se, but just that we must start to have a very serious conversation about these kinds of sensitive issues. It's NOT normal or acceptable that high school and college-aged men frequently attack and murder 8-year-olds in a modern democratic society. I am just weary and saddened of this whole mess. What we are today was never what we are meant to be.

And frankly, these vicious repeated incidents are destroying America's international image in the eyes of our European, Asian and Australian friends. Lots of them probably feel too scared to even visit America because they think we're so unstable and dangerous, nowadays.

I do think the American left has a weird double standard also. It's not old white conservatives from rural areas who are shooting up schools, it's disturbed young men in mostly suburban or urban places who are "supposed" to be much more "tolerant" and "liberal" than older Americans. And I mean, they've glamorized casual death and killings in Hollywood for decades. Remember The Basketball Diaries, in which the main character literally got a gun and killed his classmates and teacher in a graphic dream sequence scene? There are thousands of movies with extremely gory and bloody scenes, children killing other children, children being killed by adults, and lots of Democrats have no issue showing them to their children whatsoever. And lots of non-Americans watch those things also. It just reeks of hypocrisy.

They smile and shrug at things like that, and at the amount of sheer violence in video games where you shoot and kill people (even some people in my own family are into those games unfortunately) - yet they seem to think that it has no connection whatsoever to the behavior of today's young adults. They are hardening and desensitizing them to all kinds of violent and immoral things, with popular culture being increasingly bloody and graphic, in ways that can probably never be reversed.

 

[LouisWilliams]

I took my Stepson to the range once. ONCE
Before we left, I had him apologize to every person on the range ...

Heading home ...."The next time I tell you to not touch anything, listen carefully to what I say. Bullets have no mind of their own ....they go where they are pointed toward" .... We had a long talk about gun safety and why you don't point a gun at everyone on the range. You might get shot at in return ....He doesn't own a gun to this day ...

I mean, I wouldn't let my son or daughter use a gun until they were at least almost done with high school, and even then I'd be pretty careful. And our teenagers and young adults are easily influenced by peer pressure and bullying and hateful messages; I think none of us want to be responsible for our son / daughter suddenly going all Rambo all their classmates if something suddenly snaps someday. And yet, some families today think it's perfectly okay for 10-year-old girls to casually use and fire shotguns, which is a bit extreme for me.
My first rifle: how young is too young to operate a gun?

As Tulsi Gabbard said, we are truly facing a deep "spiritual crisis" in this nation, and I am not sure how it can be resolved.

 

[BeyondET]

No Christian can take an oath like that. Our first loyalty and obedience is to God, not any nation.
We are to be model citizens of the nation we live in so as not to bring reproach on our God, but no government can tell us to break God’s law. “Thou shalt not murder” is part of the Ten Commandments.

Christians have no sanction from God to kill anyone....if the world wants to slaughter one another, that is up to them....Jesus told us not to be part of that world. (John 17:14; John 18:36)

At present, Russia and the Ukraine are at war, yet both claim to be “Christian” nations. The Russian Orthodox church are supporting the killing of their own brothers of the Ukraine Orthodox church.....1 John 4:20-21 has no meaning for them.

Obedience to God has to take first place because the devil loves nothing more than divided loyalties.

Yet they both claim to be Christian what should they have done the Ukrainians, never defend their land let the Russians ride on in take over the country change everything. laid down their weapons and become russian or else. Imagine your country your house being taken over.