Doctrine as a god - bow down before the one you serve...

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St. SteVen

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St. SteVen

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Bruce-Leiter

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Doctrine as a god - bow down before the one you serve...​


There is no salvation in doctrine. Only God can save.

--- Agree or disagree? ---

Doctrinolatry (to coin a term)

Follow-up to several topics:

"My doctrinal opinion is true; you're doctrinal opinion is false." - Got it?

The (potential) Treachery of Doctrine > My way, or the highway >

What makes a doctrine false?

Choice of doctrine is driven by religious preconception - Spirituality is an individualized journey

Doctrine is not a bad thing as long as it arises out of the givens of the Scriptures. If it does, doctrines are good and certainly not anything to be proud of, since their source is God!
 

Randy Kluth

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Doctrine as a god - bow down before the one you serve...​


There is no salvation in doctrine. Only God can save.

--- Agree or disagree? ---

Doctrinolatry (to coin a term)

Follow-up to several topics:

"My doctrinal opinion is true; you're doctrinal opinion is false." - Got it?

The (potential) Treachery of Doctrine > My way, or the highway >

What makes a doctrine false?

Choice of doctrine is driven by religious preconception - Spirituality is an individualized journey

I don't wish to deman doctrine. But if you are attacking "doctrinalism," then I would agree. ;) We're inventing words, aren't we?

We may call this "churchianity" or "nominal Christianity." People go to church and recite doctrinal beliefs--all without experiencing a full spiritual transformation, all without a total commitment to Christ as our "way, truth, and life."

But doctrine is what the NT Scriptures is all about, and we should respect it in that sense. We cannot say we are "good Christians" and then completely reject the doctrine of Christ's Deity! Nor can we claim to be "Saved" while stating that Christ didn't really die on the cross for our sins.

But yes, God and Christ are at the center of our experience, and not 'head knowledge." The original sin in the garden of Eden was the pursuit of knowledge without faith. That remains true in what you appear to be saying.
 
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Justified

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I agree that doctrine is important.
But I caution that it makes a poor god and that not everyone agrees on their doctrine.
Putting doctrine on a pedestal leads to division not unity.

A religious cult is easy to identify. They attend the church across the street from yours.
And they feel the same way about you. Where does that get us?
This is precisely why doctrine is so important. There are beliefs that are necessary for followers of Christ to believe and that if denied, show that such a person or denomination do not belong to Christ.

Rom 16:17 I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them.
Rom 16:18 For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive. (ESV)

1Co 11:18 For, in the first place, when you come together as a church, I hear that there are divisions among you. And I believe it in part,
1Co 11:19 for there must be factions among you in order that those who are genuine among you may be recognized. (ESV)

1Ti 1:3 As I urged you when I was going to Macedonia, remain at Ephesus so that you may charge certain persons not to teach any different doctrine,
...
1Ti 1:10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, (ESV)

1Ti 6:3 If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that accords with godliness, (ESV)

Tit 1:9 He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it. (ESV)

Those and many more passages show the centrality of correct doctrine and what can result from incorrect doctrine. So, no, a religious cult isn't simply those who "attend the church across the street from yours."

Having said all that, we must all walk in humility:

1Co 13:9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part,
1Co 13:10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away.
1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways.
1Co 13:12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known. (ESV)

Doctrine as a god - bow down before the one you serve...​


There is no salvation in doctrine. Only God can save.

--- Agree or disagree? ---
It is true that it is God alone who saves, but what do you say to those who whose doctrine disagrees with your doctrine that "Only God can save"? Do you agree that correct doctrine of who God is and who Jesus is are necessary for salvation?

Believing in the necessity of correct doctrine does not mean that doctrine has become a god; it is something that is taught throughout the NT. It's a matter of knowing which doctrines are of central importance to salvation, that is, to believe as a follower of Christ, and which doctrines allow for freedom to have differing opinions.
 

Button

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Doctrine was invented first. Then Denominationalism. Denominationalism adjusts doctrine to be exclusive to the participant denomination.

And then members of the denomination are led to believe their ideology is exclusive and right with God.

And that's how you divide the body of Christ.


It's very simple really.

Jesus’ death was a unique, substitutionary sacrifice to save people from the destruction ,spiritual death ,separation , from God.

Believe that, the rift, separation is healed. God knows the heart. Enters in, and leads the believer to a change of life.Man,makes it difficult.
 
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St. SteVen

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It is true that it is God alone who saves, but what do you say to those who whose doctrine disagrees with your doctrine that "Only God can save"? Do you agree that correct doctrine of who God is and who Jesus is are necessary for salvation?

Believing in the necessity of correct doctrine does not mean that doctrine has become a god; it is something that is taught throughout the NT. It's a matter of knowing which doctrines are of central importance to salvation, that is, to believe as a follower of Christ, and which doctrines allow for freedom to have differing opinions.
 

Justified

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That's not a response. Are you going to answer my questions?
 

rockytopva

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Remembering two of our rules here...

[*]Do not state or imply that another member or group of members who have identified themselves as Christian are not Christians.
[*]Denominational Posts – Excessive posts either attempting to either push a single denomination (or group) or attacking another denomination are included in this rule.

And becoming a Christian is as easy as... If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. - Romans 10_9-10

There should be no threads here promoting a doctrine or organization who has the corner on everything. I would agree some movements are more righteous than others. And I would also agree some movements are more spiritual than others. There are two important things to remember here...

It is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: - Hebrews 9:7
Why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. - Romans 14:10

In that we are all destined for judgment ought to be a fearful thing.
 
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JohnDB

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Remembering two of our rules here...

[*]Do not state or imply that another member or group of members who have identified themselves as Christian are not Christians.
[*]Denominational Posts – Excessive posts either attempting to either push a single denomination (or group) or attacking another denomination are included in this rule.

And becoming a Christian is as easy as... If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. - Romans 10_9-10

There should be no threads here promoting a doctrine or organization who has the corner on everything. I would agree some movements are more righteous than others. And I would also agree some movements are more spiritual than others. There are two important things to remember here...

It is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: - Hebrews 9:7
Why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. - Romans 14:10

In that we are all destined for judgment ought to be a fearful thing.
And I'm out
Peace
 

St. SteVen

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It is true that it is God alone who saves, but what do you say to those who whose doctrine disagrees with your doctrine that "Only God can save"? Do you agree that correct doctrine of who God is and who Jesus is are necessary for salvation?
No. I do not agree that "correct doctrine of who God is and who Jesus is are necessary for salvation."
Here's why.

The person comi9ng to God in desperation (or not) has no training in correct doctrine.
All they know is that they need God to intervene in their life.
This is enough to establish a restored relationship. That's what counts.
Correct doctrine will come as a matter of discipleship training.

Perhaps the evangelist needs to have there doctrine correct, but not the seeker.
 

Justified

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No. I do not agree that "correct doctrine of who God is and who Jesus is are necessary for salvation."
Here's why.

The person comi9ng to God in desperation (or not) has no training in correct doctrine.
All they know is that they need God to intervene in their life.
This is enough to establish a restored relationship. That's what counts.
Correct doctrine will come as a matter of discipleship training.

Perhaps the evangelist needs to have there doctrine correct, but not the seeker.
What do you mean by "salvation"--justification, sanctification, glorification, or some combination of those?
 

Justified

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Remembering two of our rules here...

[*]Do not state or imply that another member or group of members who have identified themselves as Christian are not Christians.
[*]Denominational Posts – Excessive posts either attempting to either push a single denomination (or group) or attacking another denomination are included in this rule.

And becoming a Christian is as easy as... If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. - Romans 10_9-10

There should be no threads here promoting a doctrine or organization who has the corner on everything. I would agree some movements are more righteous than others. And I would also agree some movements are more spiritual than others.
While I agree that no denomination or organization "has the corner on everything," it isn't that "some movements are more righteous than others," whatever that means, or that "some movements are more spiritual than others," whatever that means. It's that some movements that claim to be Christian simply aren't--they've mixed truth with falsehood and so believe in and promote a Jesus and gospel that are not of the Bible.

Gal 1:6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel—
Gal 1:7 not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:9 As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.

There are two important things to remember here...

It is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: - Hebrews 9:7
Why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. - Romans 14:10
The context of Rom. 14:10 is in judging how weak believers are behaving.

In that we are all destined for judgment ought to be a fearful thing.
It is, which is why we are supposed to judge false teaching and teachers and false prophecies and prophets in the church. It is why we're not supposed to let error abound and so lead many astray. It is why we're supposed to "to contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints" (Jude 1:3).
 

St. SteVen

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What do you mean by "salvation"--justification, sanctification, glorification, or some combination of those?
Redemption from our fallen state. Justification and glorification, I suppose. (following restoration)