Everything God does is just including electing some and not others.forrestcupp said:The Bible says no sinner would even seek salvation. Romans 3:9-18There is a huge difference between foreknowing and forcing. God knows who are going to be His, but He lets us make the choice on our own. Choosing salvation doesn't create salvation. If I'm driving down the road and I see a McDonald's on one side and a Taco Bell on the other, and I pull into McDonald's to get a burger, I just chose the burger; I didn't cook and prepare it. We're saved by grace through faith. Grace is what saves us, but it requires our believing and accepting. Guess what? Rom. 12:3 says that God has allotted to each the measure of faith, not just to some elect group. Everyone has the ability to choose God's salvation.
If God is truly sovereign and omnipotent, then it's within His realm of possibility to make every person elect. If it's truly not our choice, then it's not our fault, but God's if we go to hell. If it's possible for God to make every person elect, but He doesn't, then wouldn't that make Him unjust? And on the other hand, if God is the one who chooses people's election status and 1 Timothy 2:4 is true, where it says that God desires all men to be saved, wouldn't that imply that God isn't all powerful? He wants all men to be saved, it's all up to Him who is saved, but obviously all men are not saved, so God must not be very powerful. This is a pretty low opinion of the creator of heaven and earth. It makes a lot more sense to me that God wants us all to be saved, but He doesn't want to force us to be His loving robots, so He leaves the choice up to us. We choose Him; He saves us.
The Bible clearly says God chooses us. We do not choose Him.
John 15:16
New King James Version (NKJV)
16 You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.
2 Thessalonians 2:13
New King James Version (NKJV)
13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by
the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through
sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth
About predestination, Abraham's seed is Christ.
Gal 3:16 Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, "And to seeds," as referring to many, but rather to one, "And to your seed," that is, Christ.
It's only when we are in Christ that we become Abraham's seed.
Gal 3:29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's descendants, heirs according to promise.
We are predestined through Christ.
Eph 1:5 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,
Christ is the one that is predestined, and whoever is in Him is predestined, too, by default. Jesus is like a ship that already has its destination set. Whoever gets on that ship is obviously going to that preset destination. Predestination is not an individual thing. It's the Body of Christ that is predestined. Whoever becomes a part of the Body of Christ becomes part of that predestination. Salvation comes only from God and His grace through the blood of Jesus, but we choose whether to accept it or not.
This sounds quite spiritual and logical but is just another perversion of grace. Making a choice means man can do a work to be saved on His own which is NOT grace. To say that God does not elect individuals is contrary to scripture:
Romans 9:11-13
New King James Version (NKJV)
11 (for the children
not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose
of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who
calls), 12 it was said to her, “The older shall serve the younger.”[a] 13 As it is written, “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.”