End times eschatology and the hatred for it

[MatthewG]

Indeed, Jesus laid it all out and that generation to whom He spoke (without a 2,000 year gap) failed to track with Him just as He foretold...as the spirit of anti-Christ was even then already at work. Then, just as it was foretold, "false teachers" entered the church teaching "destructive doctrines" by which the church of today has learned to believe the foretold "lie" causing "strong delusion." And those who have believed the "lie" even now deny all of these things which were foretold.

And here we are.

Not all of that generation, part of that generation was part of the bride of Christ.

Now what people do and teach today, is due to traditions of man - and to follow those things are up to the person, and the only way to negate that mentality is with truth at least as close one can get... and that is by reading and seeking God, by the spirit desiring truth ya know?

Not every single church out there is bad, or not feeding the flock ... to fortify faith. Some can be terrible but not everyone of them is bad, there are some really devout people out there who just wanna help fortify people in faith and in truth and also let them decide for themselves.

 

[ScottA]

Not all of that generation, part of that generation was part of the bride of Christ.

Now what people do and teach today, is due to traditions of man - and to follow those things are up to the person, and the only way to negate that mentality is with truth at least as close one can get... and that is by reading and seeking God, by the spirit desiring truth ya know?

Not every single church out there is bad, or not feeding the flock ... to fortify faith. Some can be terrible but not everyone of them is bad, there are some really devout people out there who just wanna help fortify people in faith and in truth and also let them decide for themselves.

This is true and you are gracious to say so, however what is written does not stop there but goes on to include brother against brother and children against parents, etc..

So yes, even many teaching the false gospel and anti-Christ "lie" of false teachers from that time of church beginnings, will be told "good and faithful servant." Not because they taught the truth, but because their faith in God and Christ was not deterred by the false teaching of others or the slumber allowed by God until the times of the gentiles is fulfilled, which time is now upon us.

Even that [gap theory] generation will have their day, which now is. Which is not to say they were correct, but rather to reveal that they were not. This is the time of the finish of the mystery of God which He revealed unto His servants the prophets that was to occur before the sounding of the seventh angel. Which I say again, is now. Then comes the end.

 

[Marty fox]

It had to have happened, my friend, the people in Thessalonica had been promised, that was gonna happen from Paul.

That is what I am trying to nail in the coffin of the people who don't realize this stuff, but its okay if they wanna disagree you know?

What it it to me if people wanna continue to have hope that Jesus Christ is coming back? That is all fine and okay with me, and I love them.

Ya know? It's just ... when hope is continued to preach and it doesn't seem like Jesus still hasn't come back after 40 years of preaching it, that begs to question...

Did he already, and is now on the throne?

A question unanswered for me - but for it is faith, that Jesus came back, those who were waiting, seen and saw him. They were taken away, after the tribulation of those days, and gathered just as Jesus promised... It had to have happened.

How about He came back in Judgement in 70AD?

 

[Rockerduck]

Eschatology is all about Israel. In fact the world always has been about Israel when you think about it.

 

[MatthewG]

Here is the point that gets to me VIJ,

While I believe Jesus Christ did come in faith, right? That is just a personal subjective belief.

There is nothing greater than a person who starts to believe and faith, and die, and be buried, and rise again with Christ, by the spirit of God that raised him up from the dead and to walk in faith, not by sight, and to walk in step with the spirit. See, I made this thread, because it an encouragement... as the first post helps in giving some insights on where to look on the occasion of what is being talked about via secular history, but some will hate that is even something mention "oh man this guy suggest you read something secular!" Burn him at the stake, you know type of mentality.

I love you, your husband, all these members on the board... and don't hate any of them. They are unique and are all viable people who believe in the death, burial, and resurrection and even acension of Christ, and not everyone believes he came back and that is fine.

You can find all sorts of spiritual principles laid out with-in the bible, while I am at work, the notion is to try to give 100% every day that I am there regardless of the pain. Some people look at me and probably wonder why, and a lot of the times, i just say I am working as though I am working for the LORD. Cause there is nothing wrong in desiring to work hard, or to work well... ya know? And that also comes down to the notion of, denying the self and being kind and saying hello to others, stopping to see how they are and their families are, maybe even give a prayer with the person... All I know is that it is okay, to believe Jesus Christ came, and to continue to walk in faith and in the spirit and build up - spiritual treasures... as you go about this life, and honor God by and through dying to self, picking up the cross, burying the old person, and raising again to newness of life.

Thank you for considering.

 

[Marty fox]

How about He came back in Judgement in 70AD?

Eschatology is all about Israel. In fact the world always has been about Israel when you think about it.

How was the first half of the book of Genesis about Israel?

What the bible is about is true Israel spiritual Israel the faithful church before and after the cross.

 

[jeffweeder]

@jeffweeder

I love you no matter what.

Really good move

Do you wanna even touch the questions I asked of you?

I did try...not very well apparently.

Did Jesus lie to those four apostles when he told them about all things should happen to the people of that generation?

Of course not

Did Paul lie to timothy about all the hope they had of seeing Jesus appear

No. You are implying that it should be obvious that he meant within their lifetimes, right?.

That is clearly not the case. Paul spoke of his departure from this world before a future day when all who have believed from the foundation of the world will be gathered together at his coming appearing to receive their final reward (crown).


2tim 4
6 For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure [from this world] is at hand and I will soon go free. 7 I have fought the good and worthy and noble fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith [firmly guarding the gospel against error]. 8 In the future there is reserved for me the [victor’s] crown of righteousness [for being right with God and doing right], which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that [great] day—and not to me only, but also to all those who have loved and longed for and welcomed His appearing.







Jesus made it very clear what is to happen when he comes again. The unGodly are caught up in it just as the righteous are.
see 2thess 1.



The world will never be the same again thank God. Welcome back to the pure foundation of the world.
Thanks be to Jesus for consummating and restoring his own work of redemption through his glorious appearing in the glory of his Father.

The Glory he had with the Father from the FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD.


This should be our go to place when it comes to the truth about his second coming and rapture to him.
If people prefer to rely on their own understanding OT Scripture instead then your situation is completely hopeless.
Fix your eyes on Jesus .

 

[MatthewG]

Always, @jeffweeder.

There is nothing wrong in this day in life in following, looking, and abiding in the Lord Yeshua if one so chooses.

Just having read some of the book of Judges, it is amazing what the angel of the LORD came to proclaim to the people of Israel.

The idols in which the people around them in which they decide to live with, would become a snare to them, and that is something that happens today in this life, people become snared by idols, and worshiping other things besides Yahava himself, who sent Yeshua.

Just the other day, I listen to a woman say "That person is my idol husband," its so strange to hear that, but it's possible for people to idolize false conceptions of the way people are... and creates a false reality. Another person also told me two days ago about how "It's hard to believe that grow men in their 30s and 40s, live in a fantasy world" what the conversations he heard I do not know but there is issues with people in their lives.


The only solution to overcome the world and its problems, and face the reality is coming to the Lord... and the thing about coming to Him it is a constant, every day relationship, with the Father, and eating and drinking the eternal waters and eternal bread.

 

[jeffweeder]

Always, @jeffweeder.

There is nothing wrong in this day in life in following, looking, and abiding in the Lord Yeshua if one so chooses.

Just having read some of the book of Judges, it is amazing what the angel of the LORD came to proclaim to the people of Israel.

The idols in which the people around them in which they decide to live with, would become a snare to them, and that is something that happens today in this life, people become snared by idols, and worshiping other things besides Yahava himself, who sent Yeshua.

Just the other day, I listen to a woman say "That person is my idol husband," its so strange to hear that, but it's possible for people to idolize false conceptions of the way people are... and creates a false reality. Another person also told me two days ago about how "It's hard to believe that grow men in their 30s and 40s, live in a fantasy world" what the conversations he heard I do not know but there is issues with people in their lives.


The only solution to overcome the world and its problems, and face the reality is coming to the Lord... and the thing about coming to Him it is a constant, every day relationship, with the Father, and eating and drinking the eternal waters and eternal bread.

Thats all well and good Matthew, but I would love you to actually respond to my last post and keep this thread on topic.
You want to discuss the second coming?,... then lets have a look at NT scriptures that lay the foundation for it..

 

[MatthewG]

I think I am done past your presentations @jeffweeder.

I will contiously disagree. It would be pointless to continue, and no reason is needed to persue, you can choose what you will believe, that is up to you.

Thank you for willingly particapating.

 

[Rockerduck]

How was the first half of the book of Genesis about Israel?

What the bible is about is true Israel spiritual Israel the faithful church before and after the cross.

Moses was a Levite. He wrote Genesis.

 

[Marty fox]

Moses was a Levite. He wrote Genesis.

And?

 

[MatthewG]

@ewq1938,

There is also Hebrews,

Hebrews 9:28 So Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

Here is a scripture that confirms my earlier statement of those who were faithful, would see him.

While I do believe that there is writings of the promises of Jesus Christ coming in and through non-believer secular writers to confirm that his promises where true, the whole opening in general is a revelation which is brought for to "his servants" who are "blessed to have read and seen" in a time that was going to happen "soon / quickly." Bible Gateway passage: Revelation 1 - New American Standard Bible



Jesus promised these things to come about, through the Gospels. Matthew 26:64 - Bible Gateway


Promises even to James, John and Andrew. Bible Gateway passage: Mark 13 - New American Standard Bible



It's possible that those who pierced Christ - started to turn and believe, when all this destruction had come about. Lukes record in acts, shows that it was, the Jewish people, God's chosen people that put him to death, and perhaps they started to turn and believe as the tribulations started to come upon them, just as you see in Egypt, there was time for people to return towards the Living God - it seems like to me anyway. Bible Gateway passage: Acts 5:30-32 - King James Version



A generation - was relatable to 40 years. However many people disregard this notion. And the sun will be darkened and the moon filled with blood, all that can be found recorded is the records of Jospehus. Josephus: The Complete Works 9780785214267 | eBay

 

[ewq1938]

@ewq1938,

There is also Hebrews,

Hebrews 9:28 So Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

Here is a scripture that confirms my earlier statement of those who were faithful, would see him.

People are still waiting to see him return. History confirms this whether world history or church history.

 

[MatthewG]

Yes, you are right @ewq1938.

It's because it is a tradition that is taught, but I don't knock those who continue to wait, I hope that I am wrong and they will see his return. However, it's a personal subject that my belief is just simply different, than what most common beliefs are, and that is okay.

Nothing but love to you, just wanted to point those things out to be considered.

Personally, when we all die, I suspect we will meet Jesus face to face, as he is, that is the hope that is had anyway.

 

[ewq1938]

Yes, you are right @ewq1938.

It's because it is a tradition that is taught, but I don't knock those who continue to wait, I hope that I am wrong and they will see his return. However, it's a personal subject that my belief is just simply different, than what most common beliefs are, and that is okay.

It's interesting to me how that all the false doctrines share something in common. No concern at all for a false christ (also called the antichrist).

Pre-trib: Church is gone before Ac comes.
Full preterism: Ac came in the past.
Amillennialism: Ac came in the past.

Only Post-trib Premill teaches that the AC is still yet to come, and comes before Jesus does. Basically a false jesus comes and tries to fool Christians and the world that he is God. That is directly related to the Apostasy. Post-trib Premill is the only theological position that teaches this that i am aware of.

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.


the GT, false christs you should not believe any of them are the real Christ returned, then finally the real return of Christ. Paul spoke the same that the return of Christ and our gathering to him would not happen until the Apostasy and the revealing of the man of sin took place. That happens in the GT Christ mentioned in the above passage.

 

[MatthewG]

There are people who may claim that they are Christ today, however it was nothing like back in the Apostle's day... That was what Jesus was warning his four apostles listening - if you see people saying here is the christ, don't believe them. (Because in that day they went out and taught after the holy spirit, to also watch out for false Christs, and some people could have been deceived but not all of them.)

That is the difference, @ewq1938.

It is still an active deception that can still viably happen today... You know? The signs you show, where for them to watch out and look for. Though people can actively deceive other people. Therefore I am not against "things that Jesus said" coming up in todays time, and perhaps that is the confusion with you not understanding me 100%.

 

[ewq1938]

It is still an active deception that can still viably happen today... You know?

As is clear from my post.

 

[MatthewG]

Amen, I agree with you @ewq1938 that no one should believe anyone that claims to be the christ.

Christ has set up his kingdom, and because of this you and all those who believe have access to God already, by the kingdom of God being in your heart.

Anyone that says, come meet the messiah might be a curious phrase, and a wonderment, of like... uh? What? The Messiah is already on the throne of my heart, I do not need to go and see some person you claims to be the messiah, are you okay? Do you know that person is lying to you?

You can see weird things on youtube about that stuff, but I haven't yet had anyone actively come up to me asking me to go meet the messiah: but there are cults and things like that, which have, so you are right.

You have some exceptional discernment, and thank you for commenting you thoughts.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

It's because it is a tradition that is taught, but I don't knock those who continue to wait, I hope that I am wrong and they will see his return.

“I hope that I am wrong and they will see his return.” To me that is something to hope for. But then you’ll be wrong for that hope that they will see His return. To me that is a good example of esteeming others better than yourself. I did pay attention to you said “however”…then (if I understood correctly) you don’t think you are wrong. But preferring to be wrong so they see His return is worth mentioning I think.