Eschatology - Luke 21:5-38

[Timtofly]

My point is, this are Herodian stones that he placed there before Jesus, because it is the Fort Antonia that he build from the foundation up. They were not destroyed because it is the Roman Fort Antonia, and not the Jewish temple. The only thing that wasn't destroyed in 70 A.D. was the Roman Fort Antonia that you see today, with Herodian Stones. The temple in the City of David was utterly removed and prophecy was fulfilled.

Since the fort and temple were the same complex and foundation walls, then the fort itself would have to come down if all the stones do. Herod made the temple greater. And all that Herod did is what Jesus was referring to. Not just the Second Temple built in 500 BC.

Jesus did not say, "See all this grand building. It shall all be taken away, except that fort over there."

 

[MatthewG]

Yeah I don’t know the history of the wall you guys are talking about I don’t know when it was made or anything. Is there encyclopedia or something on this wall you guys talk about?

I believe traditionally it is believed by the Jews to be of some significant benefactor.

 

[Daniel L.]

the fort and temple were the same complex

No they weren't, there is no way the pagans were in the temple complex. The temple was 600ft away from the Roman Fort.

So are you saying that the babies in the audience if lucky would live to 70AD to prove your point?

How do you know the crucifixion was in 30 A.D? If the devil is loosed, you can't trust neither times nor laws:

Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

All you know is that Jesus word's are true, so if He said the generation will not pass away until He comes, it means the generatinon will not pass away until He comes, and that is were you have to base your math, not in numbers given to you, but in His Word.

I believe traditionally it is believed by the Jews to be of some significant benefactor.

Yeah the Jews rejected Messiah and they were given to shame. They were left with a pagan wall of Fort Antonia, bacause they did not worship the True King of Kings, so He gave them over to their abominations.

 

[Timtofly]

No they weren't, there is no way the pagans were in the temple complex. The temple was 600ft away from the Roman Fort.

How do you know the crucifixion was in 30 A.D? If the devil is loosed, you can't trust neither times nor laws:

Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

All you know is that Jesus word's are true, so if He said the generation will not pass away until He comes, it means the generatinon will not pass away until He comes, and that is were you have to base your math, not in numbers given to you, but in His Word.

Yeah the Jews rejected Messiah and they were given to shame. They were left with a pagan wall of Fort Antonia, bacause they did not worship the True King of Kings, so He gave them over to their abominations.

You do realize your thoughts are based in human (pagan thought) more than mine?

But if you do not trust any calendar put together by man, how do you know anything happened in 70AD? It could have happened in 40AD for that matter.

Once again, Jesus was not referring to a single building, but the false glory of Herod's complex. Point to one verse that Jesus did not say "All these stones", but that Jesus was pointing out just one building in the entire complex. The whole point was the destruction of Herod's pagan complex, not a single building God had used as a tabernacle.

You turn Jesus' words around and claim God left them a pagan reminder. Now what logic would point out God wants them to remember paganism, and forget God? God wanted them to "grow up", and move into grace and leave the law behind. God said, He will be in all individuals, instead of a yearly visit to a single individual.

Now we have pagan thought that humans had to help God out in God's plans for mankind. If the Fortress was that pagan, then the AoD was already set up the whole time Jesus was growing up. Why was the point not made that the AoD would continue for decades?

 

[Daniel L.]

how do you know anything happened in 70AD?

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

-When Messiah the Prince was born that means the 69 weeks had already passed, the city was restored. Leaving Messiah with just one week which is 49 years, or a jubilee. He died in the year 49 after His birth, which was when He fulfilled Psalm 22 and the vinegar prophecy, then He said: it is finished, meaning the seventy weeks were completed and all vision and prophecy about Him was "seal up".

So, after this all we have is His Word, a generation could be anywhere between 30 to 80 years. Placing the destruction of the temple anywhere between 79 and 129 A.D. I just refer to it as 70 A.D. because is what everyone is familiar with and agrees upon, and there is really not a problem with that. As long as they know the temple was destroyed back then, prophecy was fulfilled or "sealed up" as written in Daniel.

The whole point was the destruction of Herod's pagan complex

-No, it was clearly the temple who was destroyed, there is no prophecy in Scripture about the destruction of Fort Antonia:

Matthew 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

 

[Timtofly]

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

-When Messiah the Prince was born that means the 69 weeks had already passed, the city was restored. Leaving Messiah with just one week which is 49 years, or a jubilee. He died in the year 49 after His birth, which was when He fulfilled Psalm 22 and the vinegar prophecy, then He said: it is finished, meaning the seventy weeks were completed and all vision and prophecy about Him was "seal up".

So, after this all we have is His Word, a generation could be anywhere between 30 to 80 years. Placing the destruction of the temple anywhere between 79 and 129 A.D. I just refer to it as 70 A.D. because is what everyone is familiar with and agrees upon, and there is really not a problem with that. As long as they know the temple was destroyed back then, prophecy was fulfilled or "sealed up" as written in Daniel.


-No, it was clearly the temple who was destroyed, there is no prophecy in Scripture about the destruction of Fort Antonia:

Matthew 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

The verse right there states "buildings", plural. The whole complex.

Jesus says, "all these things" all of Herod's complex.

You are not even going by Scripture, but your own musings.

Sorry, but until Christ is Prince in Jerusalem on His throne, per Matthew 25:31, the 70 weeks are not completed.

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:"

 

[ewq1938]

The verse right there states "buildings", plural. The whole complex.

Jesus says, "all these things" all of Herod's complex.

Yep.

Mar 13:1 And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here!
Mar 13:2 And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

 

[Daniel L.]

Yep.

"buildings", plural. The whole complex.

Yes, all the buildings of the temple were completely destroyed. There are buildings around the bigger building, where the Holy Place is.

Jesus says, "all these things" all of Herod's complex.

I get it, you are placing the temple on top of Roman Fort Antonia. But the temple was in the City of David:

2 Samuel 5:7 Nevertheless David took the strong hold of Zion: the same is the city of David.

Joel 3:21 For I will cleanse their blood that I have not cleansed: for the Lord dwelleth in Zion.

Psalm 132:13 For the Lord hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation.

Sorry, but until Christ is Prince in Jerusalem on His throne, per Matthew 25:31

Are you saying Jesus isn't Prince nor King as of right now? Because you think He hasn't come back yet.

-He was already Prince when Daniel received the revelation, because the angel called Him Messiah the Prince back then, but if you mean, "until He is King", He was born King:

Matthew 2:2 saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.

-He was anointed at His baptism, He didn't deny He was the King of the Jews, but confirmed it:

Luke 23:3 And Pilate asked him, saying, Art thou the King of the Jews? And he answered him and said, Thou sayest it.

-Sitting on His throne just means He was already King, it is not a requirement to be King, but rather a confirmation He is King.

the 70 weeks are not completed.

If the 70 weeks are not yet completed, tell me which of this ones are not yet fulfilled, and which are already done:

Daniel 9:1 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

Please read and consider everything before responding, thank you so much for your time and consideration.

In a short sum up. The whole reason Jesus told the Disciples about all this in Matt. 24 and Luke 21 was so that they would know ahead of time 1.) Jerusalem's fate 2.)n Their fate 3.) The worlds fate, all ahead of time. Thus gave them an advantage while facing life. The had years of looking forward to they fact that they knew they would become Martyrs for the Lord one day, hence every day that the testified of the Lord knowing what was coming, that gave them power over the fear of death. How many preachers today would stop preaching if told matter of factly, if you preach Jesus one day you will be killed?

So, Jesus wanted them to know the Temple would be destroyed in their lifetimes in most cases, and thus their preaching carried more weight when it came to pass. The also knew not to go back to Jerusalem in the mid 60s when wars and rumors of wars started. They knew the end was late on. The knew when the end would come, when the Gospel had been preached unto All The World, thus until China, India and far north tribes like the Scythians had been reached that Jesus could not return and thus the 70t week judgment (the end) could not come.

So, they knew not to rush back to Jerusalem and that they would die fir preaching Christ crucified. And the Synagouges they were killed in would be from the gods of Jupiter, Zeus and other false god priests etc. Jesus told them this to make them understand that had to endure until the [of their lives]. Just like Paul stated, we run a marathon, not a short race.

 

[ewq1938]

Yes, all the buildings of the temple were completely destroyed.

Most of them were but not all. The prophecy was not fulfilled by the Romans. It will be God using an earthquake more powerful than seen in all of human history. The strongest earthquake known to man was rated a 9.4. Image an earthquake that rates at 1000. No two stones will remain together anywhere.

 

[Daniel L.]

Most of them were but not all.

Do you have any Scripture at all to back this up? The only thing left standing there was the Roman Fort Antonia that you see today, everything else was totally destroyed, as Jesus foretold.

earthquake that rates at 1000

Do you have any Scripture at all to back this up?

 

[ewq1938]

Do you have any Scripture at all to back this up? The only thing left standing there was the Roman Fort Antonia that you see today, everything else was totally destroyed, as Jesus foretold.

He said all the buildings would not have a stone upon another. There remains at least one wall from a structure that was there in the first century. That wall will fall and no stones will be as they are now at the second coming.

Western Wall | Definition, History, & Facts

"Western Wall, Hebrew Ha-Kotel Ha-Maʿaravi, also called Wailing Wall, in the Old City of Jerusalem, a place of prayer and pilgrimage sacred to the Jewish people. It is the only remains of the retaining wall surrounding the Temple Mount, the site of the First and Second Temples of Jerusalem, held to be uniquely holy by the ancient Jews."

 

[Timtofly]

Yes, all the buildings of the temple were completely destroyed. There are buildings around the bigger building, where the Holy Place is.


I get it, you are placing the temple on top of Roman Fort Antonia. But the temple was in the City of David:

2 Samuel 5:7 Nevertheless David took the strong hold of Zion: the same is the city of David.

Joel 3:21 For I will cleanse their blood that I have not cleansed: for the Lord dwelleth in Zion.

Psalm 132:13 For the Lord hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation.


Are you saying Jesus isn't Prince nor King as of right now? Because you think He hasn't come back yet.

-He was already Prince when Daniel received the revelation, because the angel called Him Messiah the Prince back then, but if you mean, "until He is King", He was born King:

Matthew 2:2 saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.

-He was anointed at His baptism, He didn't deny He was the King of the Jews, but confirmed it:

Luke 23:3 And Pilate asked him, saying, Art thou the King of the Jews? And he answered him and said, Thou sayest it.

-Sitting on His throne just means He was already King, it is not a requirement to be King, but rather a confirmation He is King.


If the 70 weeks are not yet completed, tell me which of this ones are not yet fulfilled, and which are already done:

Daniel 9:1 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Are you saying that the majority view of where this Fortress was in reference to the Temple are wrong, and you in the minority view are correct?

My point is not about where you think David and Solomon built the Temple. It is what Herod built, and he built the fort on the same complex.

I am saying Jesus has not finished reigning on earth as Prince. The 70th week will not be complete until Jesus sets up His throne in Jerusalem. The point of Daniel is not about the current standing of Christ on the throne in heaven. Christ is seated on the right hand of God with all authority, waiting to return to reign as Prince on earth, when God the Father gives the Word. Currently we are still in the time known as the fulness of the Gentiles.

Daniel's 70th week will not be complete until the 7th Trumpet sounds. Revelation 10:5-7

"And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets."

So the 70th week, and all prophecy concerning the reign on earth will not be fulfilled until that point in time.

 

[Daniel L.]

There remains at least one wall from a structure that was there in the first century.

The remains are Herodian Stones of Fort Antonia that Herod built from foundation up before Jesus, and yes it was there in the 1st century. It was the only thing the Romans didn't destroyed, was their own Fort.

ancient Jews.

This Ancient Jews?

John 19:15 But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar.

Who reject Messiah, they now worship their king, Ceasar and his Roman Wall of Fort Antonia built by Herod.

Are you saying that the majority view of where this Fortress was in reference to the Temple are wrong, and you in the minority view are correct?

Yes, I don't know if it is majority or not, it is irrelevant for truth. The Jews and Muslisms both reject Messiah so wherever they say the temple is, you know for a fact it is not there:

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

My point is not about where you think David and Solomon built the Temple. It is what Herod built, and he built the fort on the same complex.

You have no Scripture to say the temple was on the complex of the Roman Fort, on the contrary, I showed you the Scripture David took Mount Zion, His Holy Mount, which is The City of David, and that is where the temple was built, in the City of David, Mount Zion. So, when the temple was rebuilt, it remained in the exact same spot which is the City of David.

 

[Daniel L.]

Daniel's 70th week will not be complete until the 7th Trumpet sounds

Messiah was cut off on the 70th week:

Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off [...]

 

[Behold]

The problem your not seeing is that Jesus wasn’t talking to become us he was talking to four of his deciples about what they needed to look for in there future.

They all died within 30 yrs of Christ saying those words.
So, obviously Christ's words were not for the "four".

So, lets look at Putin and the Ukraine.
This is turning into "the USA vs Russia", as usual, as these two empire building world bullies have been trying to have a WW3 for a very long time.

The good news, is that all this is just a fake "world" war being created by the Media that has denied you finding out that Russia has loaded up the neighboring countries that border Israel, with bombs and jets., as this is the real war that is coming.
This "ukraine" issue is just the fire starter that gets the real one going.
The best news, is that the born again will be watching the massacre from up above, while the world finds out that God is REAL.

Here is Christ when He comes back....

2 Thessalonians 1:8

 

[ewq1938]

The remains are Herodian Stones of Fort Antonia that Herod built from foundation up before Jesus, and yes it was there in the 1st century. It was the only thing the Romans didn't destroyed, was their own Fort.

They also did not destroy one wall that was part of a large wall that surrounded the temple. That wall still stands and it was built long before Herod using a building technology that the People of Herod time did not possess. The foundation stones are massive, far larger than any stones used in Herodian buildings.

 

[Timtofly]

You have no Scripture to say the temple was on the complex of the Roman Fort, on the contrary, I showed you the Scripture David took Mount Zion, His Holy Mount, which is The City of David, and that is where the temple was built, in the City of David, Mount Zion. So, when the temple was rebuilt, it remained in the exact same spot which is the City of David.

Look in any encyclopedia and you will see that Herod has all the credit for building up such a wonderful complex, and your small fort is part of it. Jesus was talking about Herod's buildings, not King Solomon's.

 

[Daniel L.]

They also did not destroy one wall

encyclopedia

Like I said, no Scripture. You speak out of your own understanding.

 

[ewq1938]

Like I said, no Scripture. You speak out of your own understanding.

Wrong. I have scripture and an actual wall of stone upon stone still standing. I also have the fact that the Romans did not possess the ability to move the size of stones that are at the bottom of the wall.