Eschatology - Luke 21:5-38

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MatthewG

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Please read and consider everything before responding, thank you so much for your time and consideration.

Having internet with a computer to use, there was something that I would like to bring forth from what Jesus had to say about the coming signs of the end times that he explained privately to four of his disciples, John, Andrew, Peter, and James.

It will be just about all the account you will be able to read and see here, what are your thoughts?
It is a consideration for you to consider, you do not have to believe it.

The Destruction of the Temple and Signs of the End Times
5 Some of his disciples were remarking about how the temple was adorned with beautiful stones and with gifts dedicated to God. But Jesus said, 6 “As for what you see here, the time will come when not one stone will be left on another; every one of them will be thrown down.”
7 “Teacher,” they asked, “when will these things happen? And what will be the sign that they are about to take place?”

Here you have a description: About how the disciples were remarking about how the temple was adorned with beautiful stones and with gifts dedicated to God.

Jesus said however, as for what you see here - this temple standing (They were in Jerusalem, I believe) with the beautiful stones, and gifts dedicated to God - the time will come when not one stone will be left on another, everyone of them will be thrown down. Was Jesus lying to them?

You have in verse 7: Teacher the disciples asked, when will these things happen? And what will be the sign that they are about the take place?

8 He replied: “Watch out that you are not deceived. For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘The time is near.’ Do not follow them. 9 When you hear of wars and uprisings, do not be frightened. These things must happen first, but the end will not come right away.”
10 Then he said to them: “Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. 11 There will be great earthquakes, famines and pestilences in various places, and fearful events and great signs from heaven.

Jesus answering the question of the disciples which in the account of (Mark 13:3 - Peter, James, John, Andrew). He made sure to tell them everything to their question that they had asked, and he was not going to lie to his disciples... You also have the account of (Matthew 22-24) about these same events you are reading. Those they are different Gospel takes, they can add some detail looking at them all. He tells them wars, and uprising was going to start, when Jesus had died, was buried, raised again and left onward. They were warned about how great earthquakes would happen, gamines, pestilences, and fearful event, and great signs from heaven.

One of the first things that happened when Jesus Christ died on the cross, was a great earthquake that had rose.

12 “But before all this, they will seize you and persecute you. They will hand you over to synagogues and put you in prison, and you will be brought before kings and governors, and all on account of my name. 13 And so you will bear testimony to me. 14 But make up your mind not to worry beforehand how you will defend yourselves.15 For I will give you words and wisdom that none of your adversaries will be able to resist or contradict. 16 You will be betrayed even by parents, brothers and sisters, relatives and friends, and they will put some of you to death. 17 Everyone will hate you because of me. 18 But not a hair of your head will perish.19 Stand firm, and you will win life.

Jesus is heavily explicit again when talking to his disciples: They would end up being persecute the disciples, they will hand them in to synagogues, and placed in prison, going before kings, and governors (of the surrounding land) - For Jesus is talk to his disciples privately answering them the question that they had for him. Jesus told them they will have the words and wisdom for whenever adversaries had came up and about, also that they would be betrayed by others as they continue to stand firm in their trust for Jesus, and that they would win life.

20 “When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. 22 For this is the time of punishmentin fulfillment of all that has been written. 23 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people. 24 They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

Jesus is heavily explicit when talking to his disciples. Have you ever seen or noticed these things He had said?

25 “There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea. 26 People will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is coming on the world, for the heavenly bodies will be shaken. 27 At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.”

Jesus said that there will be signs in the sun, moon, and stars.
Jesus said on the earth, nations will be in anguish, and perplexity at the roaring and the tossing of the Sea (molten sea?).
Jesus said people will faint from terror, of what is coming on the world.
Jesus said that the heavenly bodies will be shaken.
Jesus said: At that time you will see the Son of Man - coming in a c loud with power and great glory.
Jesus said When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads.
Jesus said because your redemption is drawing near.

These are all the things Jesus states in 25-28.

29 He told them this parable: “Look at the fig tree and all the trees.30 When they sprout leaves, you can see for yourselves and know that summer is near. 31 Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the kingdom of God is near.

Jesus then told them this parable: Look at the fig tree and all the trees.
Jesus says when they sprout leaves, you can see for yourselves and know that summer is near.
Jesus says even so when you see these things happening, you know that the Kingdom of God is near.

(This could be taking about - the outpouring of the Holy Spirit)

32 “Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 33 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

Jesus says this (one of the most debated words ever) - Truly - I tell you disciples who are with me standing in front of me listening to the answer to your question you asked: Truly I, Jesus tell you, this

generation - 38 years to 40 years worth of time - though many people may say nope. Day like a 1000, and 1000, like a day.

When Jesus says this I believe that he is talking about a living and breathing generation in that time and day that - This generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

Jesus said Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. - Heaven and Earth is well known to the Jewish people for they lived in their own World they understood having been the choice nation God had choose to bring out of Egypt.

What Jesus is saying here is that their - heaven and earth (World - Age they understood) would pass away. However the words of Jesus Christ will never go away - for He is the one who bringing forth freedom and reconciliation to all people by paying for Sins of all people.

34 “Be careful, or your hearts will be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness and the anxieties of life, and that day will close on you suddenly like a trap. 35 For it will come on all those who live on the face of the whole earth. 36 Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man.”

Jesus said to John, Andrew, James, Peter - for them to be careful and to focus on God, For the worries and cares of the world, will come on all those who live on the face of the whole earth.

Jesus said Be always on the watch, pray, that they may be able to escape all that is about happen,
Jesus said that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man.
37 Each day Jesus was teaching at the temple, and each evening he went out to spend the night on the hill called the Mount of Olives, 38 and all the people came early in the morning to hear him at the temple.
In Christ,
Matthew Gallagher
 

Taken

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(MatthewG) LUKE 21: 5-38
It will be just about all the account you will be able to read and see here, what are your thoughts?

Inanutshell ~

God is Supreme Creator and Maker of ALL Things.
God Desires ALL of His Creations TO CHOOSE HIM Above ALL things.
God Foretells His Creations WHAT shall come to Pass.
God Foretells His Creations He shall give SIGNS BEFORE things Come to Pass.
God Foretells AS the SIGNS are reveled, take NOTICE, and CHOOSE.
God Foretells IF you missed the SIGNS, then take NOTICE, AS things ARE coming INTO FRUITION, and CHOOSE immediately.
God Foretells IF you FAIL to CHOOSE, expect to SUBJECT TO that which IS being MANIFESTED.
God Foretells AS things ARE coming INTO FRUITION and Being MANIFESTED in YOUR sight, and you STILL FAIL to CHOOSE:
expect to FIND the DOOR of Opportunity TO CHOOSE..... CLOSED.
Ones FAILURE TO CHOOSE God....IS Gods ANSWER that individual IS AGAINST HIM.

Foretold:
Matt 12:
[30] He that is not with me is against me...

Glory to God,
Taken
 

GISMYS_7

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This generation ( is the generation that will see ALL the signs Jesus spoke about)will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.
 

MatthewG

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Taken,

Thank you for sharing.

in Christ,
Matthew Gallagher

GISMYS_7,

Thank you for sharing,

in Christ,
Matthew Gallagher
 

Davy

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....
The Destruction of the Temple and Signs of the End Times
5 Some of his disciples were remarking about how the temple was adorned with beautiful stones and with gifts dedicated to God. But Jesus said, 6 “As for what you see here, the time will come when not one stone will be left on another; every one of them will be thrown down.”
7 “Teacher,” they asked, “when will these things happen? And what will be the sign that they are about to take place?”

Here you have a description: About how the disciples were remarking about how the temple was adorned with beautiful stones and with gifts dedicated to God.
....

There are 3 versions of Christ's Olivet discourse, and understanding will depend upon interpreting all three, because like you said there's often given small details between the versions.

Luke 21:6-7
6 "As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."
7 And they asked Him, saying, "Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?"

KJV

Mark 13:2-4
2 And Jesus answering said unto him, "Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."
3 And as He sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked Him privately,
4 "Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?"

KJV

Matt 24:2-3
2 And Jesus said unto them, "See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."
3 And as He sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of Thy coming, and of the end of the world?"

KJV

As can be seen in the 1st version one comes to in The New Testament, in Matthew 24, His disciples asked Him specifically what would be the sign of His coming, and of the end of the world.

That means... we are to KEEP that part in mind when reading the next two Mark 13 and Luke 21 versions.

Some brethren may simply just follow preachers that try to 'use' the Luke 21 version, bypassing Matthew 24 and Mark 13, which is error. Many of those do that in order to deceive, because they want us to believe most of Luke 21 was fulfilled in 70 A.D. when the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and the temple. They preach that because their interpretation is being influenced by men's doctrines, and in that case the seminary doctrines called Preterism and Historicism, which holds to the theory from men that most of Christ's Olivet discourse was history, and fulfilled in 70 A.D. But that simply is not true.

(Yet the Romans did not destroy the Wailing Wall of huge stones STILL one atop another in Jerusalem at that temple mount area. Those stones are still standing there today, showing 70 A.D. was not really the time Jesus was pointing to with not one stone atop another there.)
 

GISMYS_7

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Yes! The Romans destroyed the temple but not the wall around the temple.
 

GISMYS_7

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Please read and consider everything before responding, thank you so much for your time and consideration.

Having internet with a computer to use, there was something that I would like to bring forth from what Jesus had to say about the coming signs of the end times that he explained privately to four of his disciples, John, Andrew, Peter, and James.

It will be just about all the account you will be able to read and see here, what are your thoughts?
It is a consideration for you to consider, you do not have to believe it.

The Destruction of the Temple and Signs of the End Times
5 Some of his disciples were remarking about how the temple was adorned with beautiful stones and with gifts dedicated to God. But Jesus said, 6 “As for what you see here, the time will come when not one stone will be left on another; every one of them will be thrown down.”
7 “Teacher,” they asked, “when will these things happen? And what will be the sign that they are about to take place?”

Here you have a description: About how the disciples were remarking about how the temple was adorned with beautiful stones and with gifts dedicated to God.

Jesus said however, as for what you see here - this temple standing (They were in Jerusalem, I believe) with the beautiful stones, and gifts dedicated to God - the time will come when not one stone will be left on another, everyone of them will be thrown down. Was Jesus lying to them?

You have in verse 7: Teacher the disciples asked, when will these things happen? And what will be the sign that they are about the take place?

8 He replied: “Watch out that you are not deceived. For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘The time is near.’ Do not follow them. 9 When you hear of wars and uprisings, do not be frightened. These things must happen first, but the end will not come right away.”
10 Then he said to them: “Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. 11 There will be great earthquakes, famines and pestilences in various places, and fearful events and great signs from heaven.

Jesus answering the question of the disciples which in the account of (Mark 13:3 - Peter, James, John, Andrew). He made sure to tell them everything to their question that they had asked, and he was not going to lie to his disciples... You also have the account of (Matthew 22-24) about these same events you are reading. Those they are different Gospel takes, they can add some detail looking at them all. He tells them wars, and uprising was going to start, when Jesus had died, was buried, raised again and left onward. They were warned about how great earthquakes would happen, gamines, pestilences, and fearful event, and great signs from heaven.

One of the first things that happened when Jesus Christ died on the cross, was a great earthquake that had rose.

12 “But before all this, they will seize you and persecute you. They will hand you over to synagogues and put you in prison, and you will be brought before kings and governors, and all on account of my name. 13 And so you will bear testimony to me. 14 But make up your mind not to worry beforehand how you will defend yourselves.15 For I will give you words and wisdom that none of your adversaries will be able to resist or contradict. 16 You will be betrayed even by parents, brothers and sisters, relatives and friends, and they will put some of you to death. 17 Everyone will hate you because of me. 18 But not a hair of your head will perish.19 Stand firm, and you will win life.

Jesus is heavily explicit again when talking to his disciples: They would end up being persecute the disciples, they will hand them in to synagogues, and placed in prison, going before kings, and governors (of the surrounding land) - For Jesus is talk to his disciples privately answering them the question that they had for him. Jesus told them they will have the words and wisdom for whenever adversaries had came up and about, also that they would be betrayed by others as they continue to stand firm in their trust for Jesus, and that they would win life.

20 “When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. 22 For this is the time of punishmentin fulfillment of all that has been written. 23 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people. 24 They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

Jesus is heavily explicit when talking to his disciples. Have you ever seen or noticed these things He had said?

25 “There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea. 26 People will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is coming on the world, for the heavenly bodies will be shaken. 27 At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.”

Jesus said that there will be signs in the sun, moon, and stars.
Jesus said on the earth, nations will be in anguish, and perplexity at the roaring and the tossing of the Sea (molten sea?).
Jesus said people will faint from terror, of what is coming on the world.
Jesus said that the heavenly bodies will be shaken.
Jesus said: At that time you will see the Son of Man - coming in a c loud with power and great glory.
Jesus said When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads.
Jesus said because your redemption is drawing near.

These are all the things Jesus states in 25-28.

29 He told them this parable: “Look at the fig tree and all the trees.30 When they sprout leaves, you can see for yourselves and know that summer is near. 31 Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the kingdom of God is near.

Jesus then told them this parable: Look at the fig tree and all the trees.
Jesus says when they sprout leaves, you can see for yourselves and know that summer is near.
Jesus says even so when you see these things happening, you know that the Kingdom of God is near.

(This could be taking about - the outpouring of the Holy Spirit)

32 “Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 33 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

Jesus says this (one of the most debated words ever) - Truly - I tell you disciples who are with me standing in front of me listening to the answer to your question you asked: Truly I, Jesus tell you, this

generation - 38 years to 40 years worth of time - though many people may say nope. Day like a 1000, and 1000, like a day.

When Jesus says this I believe that he is talking about a living and breathing generation in that time and day that - This generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

Jesus said Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. - Heaven and Earth is well known to the Jewish people for they lived in their own World they understood having been the choice nation God had choose to bring out of Egypt.

What Jesus is saying here is that their - heaven and earth (World - Age they understood) would pass away. However the words of Jesus Christ will never go away - for He is the one who bringing forth freedom and reconciliation to all people by paying for Sins of all people.

34 “Be careful, or your hearts will be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness and the anxieties of life, and that day will close on you suddenly like a trap. 35 For it will come on all those who live on the face of the whole earth. 36 Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man.”

Jesus said to John, Andrew, James, Peter - for them to be careful and to focus on God, For the worries and cares of the world, will come on all those who live on the face of the whole earth.

Jesus said Be always on the watch, pray, that they may be able to escape all that is about happen,
Jesus said that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man.
37 Each day Jesus was teaching at the temple, and each evening he went out to spend the night on the hill called the Mount of Olives, 38 and all the people came early in the morning to hear him at the temple.
In Christ,
Matthew Gallagher

What are you saying here??? 100 words or less
 

MatthewG

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Hello Davy,

Thank you for sharing your viewpoint. I believe the scripture is highly indicative of what was going to happen, and it was very clear for it has been mentioned in the Gospel accounts of Matthew, Mark, and Luke. You put the whole account side by side it helps get greater detail, and you can see in Luke: Jesus clearly talks about armies surrounding Jerusalem, and you have documentation of the Temple being destroyed, in 70ad.

Whatever a person believes is up to them.

I will love anyone either way it goes.

in Christ,
Matthew Gallagher
 

Davy

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Hello Davy,

Thank you for sharing your viewpoint. I believe the scripture is highly indicative of what was going to happen, and it was very clear for it has been mentioned in the Gospel accounts of Matthew, Mark, and Luke. You put the whole account side by side it helps get greater detail, and you can see in Luke: Jesus clearly talks about armies surrounding Jerusalem, and you have documentation of the Temple being destroyed, in 70ad.

Whatever a person believes is up to them.

I will love anyone either way it goes.

in Christ,
Matthew Gallagher

I'm not knocking what you believe, only suggesting to you that there is more there.

There are prophecies in God's Word that have 'types', like a dual fulfillment, with the first one usually lacking in fulfillment some way. I believe the Luke 21 versions serves in this way, pointing to both the 70 A.D. destruction that would come, but ALSO... to the 'final' destruction there on the "day of the Lord" with Jesus' 2nd coming.

In 1 Corinthians 10, Apostle Paul remarked how events in the Old Testament histories serve as "ensamples" for us upon whom the ends of the world have come. So that's kind of what I'm pointing to.

For example, back in 165-170 B.C., Antiochus Epiphanes almost fulfilled to a tee the "abomination of desolation" prophecy from the Book of Daniel. Yet about 200 years later, we find Lord Jesus warning about the AOD from the Book of Daniel as part of His Signs for the very end of this world. Antiochus didn't quite meet all the prophetic parameters of the Daniel prophecy, but enough to serve as a type of blueprint for those living at the very end of this world. Likewise in Christ's Revelation, the idea of Babylon is used again, even the quote about Babylon fallen is fallen, from Isaiah 21. So even that's a 'type'. In this way, God saves a lot of time and space with pointing back to a previous historical event in His Word used as a guideline for prophecy at the end. So we aren't only to study Old Testament history like we would man's history course, but actually compare the OT histories with prophecies for the end of this world.

In the case with the not one stone atop another, the still existing Wailing Wall of huge... stones is an example that the 70 A.D. destruction serves only as a 'type', for the final destruction on the day of Christ's future return. Per Zechariah 14, we know when His feet touch down upon the Mount of Olives east of Jerusalem, where His disciples saw the buildings of the temple mount, whatever is on that temple mount will be completely destroyed like He said, not one stone atop another, literally.

Zech 14:4
4 And His feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
KJV


The Mount of Olives where Jesus and His disciples were, overlooking the temple mount to the west, means when the above happens at His return, the earth at the point of the Mount of Olives is going be parted running east and west, half the earth shifted to the north and the other half shifted to the south.

The temple mount is to the west of the Mount of Olives, so that means whatever is upon that temple mount, it will be completely destroyed by that above event, not even any old wall still standing. If we weren't given this prophetic event about Christ's 2nd coming there, then we might could say He was only pointing to the 70 A.D. destruction in His Olivet discourse. Yet, here is the other evidence that must... be included.
 

Marty fox

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There are 3 versions of Christ's Olivet discourse, and understanding will depend upon interpreting all three, because like you said there's often given small details between the versions.

Luke 21:6-7
6 "As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."
7 And they asked Him, saying, "Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?"

KJV

Mark 13:2-4
2 And Jesus answering said unto him, "Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."
3 And as He sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked Him privately,
4 "Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?"

KJV

Matt 24:2-3
2 And Jesus said unto them, "See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."
3 And as He sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of Thy coming, and of the end of the world?"

KJV

As can be seen in the 1st version one comes to in The New Testament, in Matthew 24, His disciples asked Him specifically what would be the sign of His coming, and of the end of the world.

That means... we are to KEEP that part in mind when reading the next two Mark 13 and Luke 21 versions.

Some brethren may simply just follow preachers that try to 'use' the Luke 21 version, bypassing Matthew 24 and Mark 13, which is error. Many of those do that in order to deceive, because they want us to believe most of Luke 21 was fulfilled in 70 A.D. when the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and the temple. They preach that because their interpretation is being influenced by men's doctrines, and in that case the seminary doctrines called Preterism and Historicism, which holds to the theory from men that most of Christ's Olivet discourse was history, and fulfilled in 70 A.D. But that simply is not true.

(Yet the Romans did not destroy the Wailing Wall of huge stones STILL one atop another in Jerusalem at that temple mount area. Those stones are still standing there today, showing 70 A.D. was not really the time Jesus was pointing to with not one stone atop another there.)

Some of it is also in Luke 17:20-37 too but some believe and so do I that some of the book of revelation is John’s version of the Olivit discourse.

John was the only gospel writer to actually hear the Olivit discourse do you ever wonder why he didn’t record it in his gospel?
 
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Davy

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Some of it is also in Luke 17:20:37 too but some believe and so do I that some the book of revelation is John’s version of the Olivit discourse.

Yes, the Luke 17:24-37 part is about that same timing about the end as His Olivet discourse, but He spoke that during His trip through Samaria and Galilee. It has a bit of additional information, like His warning to NOT be among the first one 'taken', which he reveals with the final 37th verse (the parallel being Matthew 24:28).

John was the only gospel writer to actually hear the Olivit discourse do you ever wonder why he didn’t record it in his gospel?

You mean since John was on the Mount of Olives with Jesus too, why didn't John write about the Olivet discourse? I don't know, but Jesus through John did reveal a lot of deeper things not revealed in the other Gospels.

Here is one of the few references that Apostle John did include from Jesus which is related to the coming pseudo-Christ that Lord Jesus warned about...

John 5:43
43 I am come in My Father's name, and ye receive Me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
KJV
 
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MatthewG

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Cool Davy, Marty, thank you for sharing.

Ive heard of people saying there sometimes a double prophecy though I’m not so sure how that works out.

I was trying to talk to someone about these things in a Taco Bell, and he started talking about dual prophecy: this was when Hilary and Donald trump were running for president.

I just don’t wanna go to far out of scripture when it comes to the what if’s, I desire to know what would be true.

Ive done stated the case for a lot of things said in the original post, and there could be more added with the other accounts.

In Christ,
Matthew Gallagher
 
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Davy

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Cool Davy, Marty, thank you for sharing.

Ive heard of people saying there sometimes a double prophecy though I’m not so sure how that works out.

I was trying to talk to someone about these things in a Taco Bell, and he started talking about dual prophecy: this was when Hilary and Donald trump were running for president.

I just don’t wanna go to far out of scripture when it comes to the what if’s, I desire to know what would be true.

Ive done stated the case for a lot of things said in the original post, and there could be more added with the other accounts.

In Christ,
Matthew Gallagher

It's important that you understand that the dual prophetic principle in God's written Word is not a "what if" type of thing. God uses it quite a bit, and to miss it means not understanding quite a bit of prophecy He showed His Church. That is why Apostle Paul mentioned this principle in the 1 Corinthians 10:11 Scripture with the idea of "ensamples" (meaning examples). I just wish you would try and remember this specific point, because it will help you in Bible study.
 

Dave Watchman

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I wish I could help you old boys out with this one.

The only way to do it is to be blunt, pull the bandaide off fast. And it might click with you latter on. This is how I started to figure it out after reading a mean guy at Worthy.

"But before all this."

What I say will fly in the face of the early Church Fathers and all the "isms, to this very day.

Jesus said Be always on the watch, pray, that they may be able to escape all that is about happen,
Jesus said that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man.

But when, at the first century destruction of Jerusalem, did Christians stand before the Son of Man?

37 Each day Jesus was teaching at the temple, and each evening he went out to spend the night on the hill called the Mount of Olives, 38 and all the people came early in the morning to hear him at the temple.

These verses are the key in understanding the Olivet Discourse. And sorry, Luke 21 is not the Olivet Discourse. Luke 21 was the morning and the daytime BEFORE the Olivet Discourse, which took place at NIGHT on the mount called Olivet.

100% of the Olivet Discourse has to do with our end times now. From WW1 and WW2, the Fig Tree and all the trees, until "all is fulfilled.

John was the only gospel writer to actually hear the Olivit discourse do you ever wonder why he didn’t record it in his gospel?

He did. He directed us to the key. He directed us to the legend on the treasure map:

"And early in the morning He came again into the temple area, and all the people were coming to Him; and He sat down and began teaching them. - John 8:2​

Luke 21 was not, is not, the Olivet Discourse. Luke 21 was early in the morning, and the day BEFORE the Olivet. Luke 21 was INSIDE the temple. Jesus sat as He "looked up" and saw a poor widow put money in the treasury. The treasury consisted of various sized jars placed around the women's court INSIDE the temple. There were a plethora of people positioned around Him: "where all the people gathered around him. All eyes were fixed on Him. There were all kinds of people all over the place INSIDE the temple. The chief priests, the teachers of the law and the leaders among the people, disciples, and poor old widows putting coins in the treasury. And all the people came early in the morning to hear Him at the temple.

And as you've noticed, Luke moved the end time's Abomination of Desolation to Chapter 17, after a mention of the "days of Noah, and the "days of Lot:

30so will it be on the day when the Son of Man is revealed. 31On that day, let the one who is on the housetop, with his goods in the house, not come down to take them away, and likewise let the one who is in the field not turn back. 32Remember Lot’s wife. - Luke 17​

The True Olivet Discourse.

"Every day I was with you in the temple courts, and you did not lay a hand on Me. - Luke 22:53

"Every day he was teaching at the temple. But the chief priests, the teachers of the law and the leaders among the people were trying to kill him. - Luke 19:47​

"And every day he was teaching in the temple, but at night he went out and lodged on the mount called Olivet. - Luke 21:37​

The true Olivet Discourse, the last of the Five Discourses of Matthew, begins with "Jesus leaving the temple and walking away. At the end of the day, "for at night He lodged on the Mount called Olivet.

It was a hike that takes a fit person 20 minutes to this very day. Tourists are still doing it. Down the temple mount, across the Kidron Valley, and up to the Mount called Olivet. A Sabbath Day's journey.

"Jesus answered him, “I have spoken openly to the world; I always taught in synagogues and in the temple, where all the Jews come together; and I spoke nothing in secret.
- John 18:20​

Up until here Jesus always taught INSIDE the temple, or "openly to the world", where all the Jews come together.

And He spoke nothing in secret.

But the Olivet Discourse WAS a secret meeting. A PRIVATE meeting. A private meeting at NIGHT. It was not, as Jesus said,: "spoken openly to the world."

"And as he sat on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately, “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign when all these things are about to be accomplished?” - Mark 13:3-4​

Four out of twelve. If this ratio holds true, only a third of the disciples today would have the ability to understand this material. Even to this very day.

And as he sat on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple it was night. There were no chief priests, no teachers of the law, no leaders among the people, no poor old widows putting coins in the treasury, and none of the people which came early in the morning to hear him at the temple. They were all gone home, ate supper, and went to sleep.

Only Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately.

Let The Reader Understand.
Peaceful Sabbath.
 
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MatthewG

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Hello Davy

But when, at the first century destruction of Jerusalem, did Christians stand before the Son of Man?

Probably when they passed away, and were resurrected. At the destruction of Jerusalem in 70ad, there was a total of 1,100,000 deaths.

They also stood before Jesus after his resurrection in his son of man (fleshly body), before being taken up and received onward to God where he was placed at the right hand of God until all things were placed underneath his feet.

In Christ,
Matthew Gallagher
 

Dave Watchman

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Hello Matt.

Probably when they passed away, and were resurrected. At the destruction of Jerusalem in 70ad, there was a total of 1,100,000 deaths.

That's not too bad an idea.

I was probably thinking it would be a time when people were still alive like in Revelation 6:

"for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?”.​

They also stood before Jesus after his resurrection in his son of man (fleshly body), before being taken up and received onward to God where he was placed at the right hand of God until all things were placed underneath his feet.

This would be my better pick of your two. My favourite. This time Jesus has left the Mount called Olivet. I could just see it like the scene from a movie. All the men of Galilee standing there with their faces turned up to the sky.

Then the two men clothed in white raiment pop up.

"Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.​

And a cloud received him out of their sight. So that means He will be coming again in a cloud. Back to the Mount called Olivet? In the middle of the 70th heptad, + 40 days?

In the like manner as they have seen Him go into heaven, we shall see Him come again.

I bet it's getting closer than we think.

Take care.
Dave Wayne.
 
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MatthewG

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There are many answers in the Bible,
There are also some secular historical accounts that help out, with Revelation.
(Josephus, Cassio Dio, Tacticus, Suetonius)
Of course the letters of the apostle themselves.
Be encouraged to seek out,
God bless you, and thank you for commenting,
Dave

in Christ,
Matthew Gallagher
 

Daniel L.

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Romans did not destroy the Wailing Wall

If you call this a temple:

Templemount1.jpg


What do you call a Roman Fort ?

fort2.jpg


The Romans didn't destroy their own Fort, it was about the only thing they didn't destroy, really.
 

Davy

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If you call this a temple:

Templemount1.jpg


What do you call a Roman Fort ?

fort2.jpg


The Romans didn't destroy their own Fort, it was about the only thing they didn't destroy, really.


Not one stone atop another, is what Jesus said.