Eschatology - Luke 21:5-38

[Daniel L.]

I have scripture

Why wouldn't you quote it?

Romans did not possess the ability to move the size of stones that are at the bottom of the wall.

I already showed you those are Herodian Stones, they had to be placed by Herod before Christ.

 

[ewq1938]

Why wouldn't you quote it?

I have and so have others. All the buildings were to be knocked down. IF any weren't, the prophecy was not fulfilled in 70AD

I already showed you those are Herodian Stones, they had to be placed by Herod before Christ.

You didn't show anything. No one knows when the foundation was laid. There are stones down there that were too large to be Roman and so deep down it's far further back in time than Herod.

 

[Daniel L.]

All the buildings were to be knocked down.

All the building of the temple were indeed knocked down by the Romans, every one agrees on this, why are you trying to go against the Word?

Herodian Stones:

 

[Timtofly]

Messiah was cut off on the 70th week:

Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off [...]

Jesus as Messiah the Prince is the 70th week. At the Second Coming as Prince, Jesus will bring an end to the 70th week at the 7th Trumpet.

 

[Timtofly]

Like I said, no Scripture. You speak out of your own understanding.

So you are saying Herod did not build the first century Temple destroyed in 70AD, but King Solomon did? What about when King Nebuchadnezzar destroyed Jerusalem? Is that not in Scripture either?

You keep saying Herod's stones are still there, but Jesus claimed they would all be gone, even those underneath Herod's stones.

 

[Daniel L.]

Jesus as Messiah the Prince is the 70th week. At the Second Coming as Prince, Jesus will bring an end to the 70th week at the 7th Trumpet.

So you are paused at half way of the 70th week, with the other half still remaining, you realize that is not how prophecy works, otherwise it wouldn't be prophecy. When they predict times it is a prediction and it always comes to pass in the time predicted, it is never paused or delayed, or it would be a prediction, right?

So you are saying Herod did not build the first century Temple destroyed in 70AD, but King Solomon did? What about when King Nebuchadnezzar destroyed Jerusalem? Is that not in Scripture either?

Herod rebuilt the temple, Nebuchadnezzar didn't destroyed the foundations, like the Romans did, Which proves the temple was rebuilt by Herod in the exact same spot as the Solomon temple, which is the City of David. So when you see Herodian stones in foundation, it means the building is not the temple, because the temple had the foundations of Solomon, not Herodian Stones. Basically proving the Wailling Wall is Roman Fort Antonia, built with Herodian Stones from foundation up.

 

[Daniel L.]

but Jesus claimed they would all be gone

All the stones of the temple inclunding the foundations of Solomon, were utterly removed and tossed away, fulfilling the prophecy. There are no stones from the temple found anywhere in the entire area, the stones you see at the Walling Wall, are Herodian stones from Roman Fort Antonia, which are not including in the prophecy, which is why they are still standing.

 

[Timtofly]

So you are paused at half way of the 70th week, with the other half still remaining, you realize that is not how prophecy works, otherwise it wouldn't be prophecy. When they predict times it is a prediction and it always comes to pass in the time predicted, it is never paused or delayed, or it would be a prediction, right?

Exactly God is not finished yet. Revelation 10:5-7

"And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,
And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets."

Herod rebuilt the temple, Nebuchadnezzar didn't destroyed the foundations, like the Romans did, Which proves the temple was rebuilt by Herod in the exact same spot as the Solomon temple, which is the City of David. So when you see Herodian stones in foundation, it means the building is not the temple, because the temple had the foundations of Solomon, not Herodian Stones. Basically proving the Wailling Wall is Roman Fort Antonia, built with Herodian Stones from foundation up.

So you are now saying the prophecy of Jesus in the first century was fulfilled by Nebuchadnezer 500 years earlier? The stones Herod placed are still where Herod placed them.

The bolded part is you saying the original stones are under Herods. We see Herods, so the originals are still under Herod's, because we still see Herod's in a part of the temple that used the same foundation as the fort as an outer wall of the temple itself.

 

[Timtofly]

All the stones of the temple inclunding the foundations of Solomon, were utterly removed and tossed away, fulfilling the prophecy. There are no stones from the temple found anywhere in the entire area, the stones you see at the Walling Wall, are Herodian stones from Roman Fort Antonia, which are not including in the prophecy, which is why they are still standing.

No, because there are still stones from Herod still standing as part of the outer wall. Jesus did not say all, but that outer wall. Besides the fact that no one can see the actual foundation. You would have to show historical evidence from when the Muslims rebuilt Jerusalem. That they did not even have a foundation to build on.

 

[Daniel L.]

the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets."

This is after the 70 weeks, after Jesus fulfilled all prophecies about Messiah, the only thing that needs to be finished, is prophecy about the second coming and the destruction of the sanctuary, that "shall come". Both Daniel and Jesus prophecy about the destruction of the sanctuary, and the day of the Lord, that was the prophecies that still needed to be finished when John wrote revelation.

Nebuchadnezzar didn't destroyed the foundations

prophecy of Jesus in the first century was fulfilled by Nebuchadnezer

Nebuchadnezzar didn't remove the foundations of the temple. So, Herod rebuilt on top of the old foundations of Solomon, which means the temple was still in the same place, the City of David, Mount Zion. The Romans removed the foundations of the temple, because the gold melted and they dug up the stones to get to the gold, fulfilling the prophecy.

No, because there are still stones from Herod still standing

I already showed you, there are Herodian stones in the foundations, which means it is not the temple. The Herodian Stones you see are the Roman Fort Antonia that Herod built from the foundation up.

 

[Timtofly]

This is after the 70 weeks, after Jesus fulfilled all prophecies about Messiah, the only thing that needs to be finished, is prophecy about the second coming and the destruction of the sanctuary, that "shall come". Both Daniel and Jesus prophecy about the destruction of the sanctuary, and the day of the Lord, that was the prophecies that still needed to be finished when John wrote revelation.



Nebuchadnezzar didn't remove the foundations of the temple. So, Herod rebuilt on top of the old foundations of Solomon, which means the temple was still in the same place, the City of David, Mount Zion. The Romans removed the foundations of the temple, because the gold melted and they dug up the stones to get to the gold, fulfilling the prophecy.


I already showed you, there are Herodian stones in the foundations, which means it is not the temple. The Herodian Stones you see are the Roman Fort Antonia that Herod built from the foundation up.

No one can see the foundations. The foundation of the temple may have had gold, but even that point is suspect, but not every foundation was removed. You are talking about one single building. Jesus was talking about the whole complex that Herod built, including the fort.

The Jews destroyed their own sanctuary from 30AD to 70AD. There is not going to be another tabernacle destroyed. At the Second Coming Christ will literally remove all the stones, and build His own temple and glorious throne. No human is going to do it. Once the final harvest is complete, and all sin removed at the 7th Trumpet, the 1,000 year reign of Christ on earth will begin. Then the plan of God prophecied by the OT prophets including Daniel will be finished, completed, sealed up. Christ as Prince is not seated on His throne in Jerusalem, so the prophecy of the 70th week is not finished.

"Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be...."

Jesus is both the Messiah and the Prince to come. Jesus is the 70th week. The 69 weeks were over way before Jesus was even born. Only Simon and Anna, who were near 100 years old, remembered Daniel's words from Gabriel. When the 3 magi from the east arrived, every one was clueless as to why they were even there. Many today seem just as clueless that Jesus still has to come as Prince to set on His throne in Jerusalem. Many acknowledge His authority from the throne of God, but not the coming reign on earth. Messiah was cut off for the fulness of the Gentiles to come in.

"And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:"

Jesus did not prevent the part about the Prince finishing the 70th week. Neither did His people who lived in the first century. Certainly not even the Romans cut the 70th week in half. God did not finish the week, because there were 2 millennia of Gentiles to be brought into the church. Now that church seems to only consider themselves "the church". They evidently forget the 4000 years prior to the Cross. And some even reject the coming 1,000 year reign of Jesus. The Gentile church is the reason the 70th week is not finished if any one desperately needs a reason. Yet the very reason (today's church) seems to demand the 70th week was over in the first century and the promise made to Israel was taking away from Israel and given to the Gentiles. That is the biggest act of thievery to prophecy ever. Nope, Daniel 9 is still about Israel and the 70th week is still a future point of fact to finish.

Now the earth was taken away from Israel to produce fruit, and yes the earth (the vineyard) was given to the Gentile church. But not the 70th week. The 70th week was cut off at the Cross, to be continued...

 

[Daniel L.]

No one can see the foundations.

These are the foundations:

Jesus was talking about the whole complex that Herod built, including the fort.

There is nothing about the Fort, you are adding. There is only destruction of the Temple in the Word.

Jesus is the 70th week.

Yes, Jesus was the 70th week, and He already came, was "cut off"; "sealed prophecy and vision" and all of those. Basically if you deny the 70th week already happend, you deny Jesus already came in the flesh, so the least you could do is allow the first half of the 70th week to make room for Jesus and His ministry. But the second half has already happened too, as I am trying to show you, the sanctuary was already destroyed. The Sactuary was in the City of David, Mount Zion. And it didn't had Herodian stones at the foundation, like Fort Antonia does. So, thats pretty much it, if you don't see it, you haven't been given to see it.

 

[Timtofly]

These are the foundations:

There is nothing about the Fort, you are adding. There is only destruction of the Temple in the Word.


Yes, Jesus was the 70th week, and He already came, was "cut off"; "sealed prophecy and vision" and all of those. Basically if you deny the 70th week already happend, you deny Jesus already came in the flesh, so the least you could do is allow the first half of the 70th week to make room for Jesus and His ministry. But the second half has already happened too, as I am trying to show you, the sanctuary was already destroyed. The Sactuary was in the City of David, Mount Zion. And it didn't had Herodian stones at the foundation, like Fort Antonia does. So, thats pretty much it, if you don't see it, you haven't been given to see it.

I do not deny Jesus fulfilled the Messiah part. Jesus told us He would fulfill the Prince part at the Second Coming.

That is only a section of some foundation, you don't even state what, but if it is the fort it is still a moot point. It was all built by Herod, and Jesus said All. You keep saying Jesus did not say all, and you fail to show verses that Jesus just meant the central Holy of Holies and not ALL.