Eternal Security

[Helen]

This is all I see at the top of this page. I did not see it under any pull-down menu either.

View attachment 4023

Christianity Board Statement of Faith

 

[GodsGrace]

You have a creative mind that does not match the intent of scripture at times GodsGrace. This is another one of them.

You seem to be obsessed to prosecute and find holes in God's word when it is clearly stated.

The 'dead' and 'lost' and 'found' expressions in this Father and son parable does not focus on salvation at all and you have the audacity of misusing this parable as your litmus test one's salvation? You and many others want to find fault in a believer at all times because they are still seekers and lack faith to bring themselves to God. The son was already saved. He went off and fell out of fellowship with his Father and thus he was considered 'dead.' He became 'alive' and began to walk with the Father once more.

You know this parable actually resembles me to some degree. I was already a believer and did become 'dead' for a while and was found again. I never fell away as this son NEVER FELL AWAY from his Father. He lost himself for a while and rededicated himself. This usually happened to males of youth when they want to 'sow their oats etc.... You have made a mountain to condemn those that are saved. I hope you find rest one of these days in all your condemnation of other believers.

BL: you do not trust scripture and God's word and especially for eternal life. I believe you never will even on your death bed ( not trying to be harsh or offensive - just very blunt)

Bless you,

APAK

You can say "bless you" after all that?
Please don't send me any blessings Apak.

You suppose someone is saved while they're sowing their wild oats?
You don't know God very well then, do you?

You know nothing about me so don't speak to me as if you do.
Your entire post is one big insult. I don't like speaking to persons who personally insult posters...that's not what I'm here for.

You also insulted @Episkopos too and he is absolutely right in what he stated regarding your post.

You should adhere to answering biblical questions and debating them...
Personal insults DO NOT belong on a Christian forum.

As to all those commentaries you sent me...
Please read them again.
You prove my belief in every one...
They all say if we are IN CHRIST.
If we are not in Christ, we are not saved.

And your belief leads many astray,,,God will not be too happy with you when your time comes.

Can you take what you dish out?

 

[gadar perets]

Christianity Board Statement of Faith

Thank you, ByGrace, for not giving me the run around or making judgmental comments.

 

[gadar perets]

Maybe because you don't belong here.

The SOF reads, "Disagreement with the below, we believe, places one outside the realm of reasonable orthodox Christianity." We have already established that I am in this category.

The "Christian Apologetics Forum" is not designated as a "Christians only" forum. It was created so that Christians can give reasoned arguments or writings in justification of their beliefs to non-Christians. This is where I come in. I am asking for reasoned Scriptural arguments for your views, but all I get from you and a few others on this site is hateful rejection, judgmental comments, mockings, and a TOTAL lack of love for a perceived enemy. I, as non-Christian, am far more Christ-like than many of you who profess to be Christian, but are far from Christ-like. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

The SOF reads, "Disagreement with the below, we believe, places one outside the realm of reasonable orthodox Christianity." We have already established that I am in this category.

The "Christian Apologetics Forum" is not designated as a "Christians only" forum. It was created so that Christians can give reasoned arguments or writings in justification of their beliefs to non-Christians. This is where I come in. I am asking for reasoned Scriptural arguments for your views, but all I get from you and a few others on this site is hateful rejection, judgmental comments, mockings, and a TOTAL lack of love for a perceived enemy. I, as non-Christian, am far more Christ-like than many of you who profess to be Christian, but are far from Christ-like. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

Just remember, this is my thread.
I started it.
So watch out!

 

[gadar perets]

1. I atone every day.
2. Look up community announcements near the top
3. 3rd thread - statement of faith
4. 2nd paragraph

Really, YOU atone every day?? The Scriptures declare Yeshua atones for us and that we cannot atone for ourselves. How do you atone for your sins daily? By saying 5 Hail Mary's and 10 Our Fathers? By doing good works?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Yes, we are eternally secure as long as we are filled with the Holy Spirit. The problem is, some people do not remain filled, but grieve the Holy Spirit away.


It is YHWH's desire that all receive mercy, but that is not the reality. Many have already died without mercy and more will in the future (Hebrews 10:28-29).


Yes, "if we believe". If we "don't believe", we will not be there. Any believer can choose to no longer believe. Destroying belief in Yeshua is the primary goal of Jewish anti-missionaries. They have successfully destroyed the faith of many, even those who were strong in the faith.

False
Anyone who is strong in the faith is never destroyed
You should talk about what you know.

 

[Helen]

Just remember, this is my thread.
I started it.
So watch out!

@gadar perets
It may help you a lot to understand that Rollo, like in the quote above here, has a large sense of humour.
It is hard sometimes to know just when he if lighthearted and when he is serious.
Just relax and enjoy the conversation if you can.

 

[Wrigley]

I can't explain it better than my post number 1226.
It seems to me that John is referring to Jesus as the Word.
Have you read it?
I believe he does this in verse 14.

John 1:1-18

John
1. Prologue: Christ, the Eternal Word (1:1-18)
1 In the beginning the Word already existed.
The Word was with God,
and the Word was God.
2 He existed in the beginning with God.
3 God created everything through him,
and nothing was created except through him.
4 The Word gave life to everything that was created,
and his life brought light to everyone.
5 The light shines in the darkness,
and the darkness can never extinguish it.
6 God sent a man, John the Baptist,7 to tell about the light so that everyone might believe because of his testimony. 8 John himself was not the light; he was simply a witness to tell about the light. 9 The one who is the true light, who gives light to everyone, was coming into the world.
10 He came into the very world he created, but the world didn’t recognize him. 11 He came to his own people, and even they rejected him. 12 But to all who believed him and accepted him, he gave the right to become children of God. 13 They are reborn—not with a physical birth resulting from human passion or plan, but a birth that comes from God.
14 So the Word became human and made his home among us. He was full of unfailing love and faithfulness. And we have seen his glory, the glory of the Father’s one and only Son.
15 John testified about him when he shouted to the crowds, “This is the one I was talking about when I said, ‘Someone is coming after me who is far greater than I am, for he existed long before me.’ ”
16 From his abundance we have all received one gracious blessing after another. 17 For the law was given through Moses, but God’s unfailing love and faithfulness came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God. But the unique One, who is himself God, is near to the Father’s heart. He has revealed God to us.

 

[Wrigley]

False
Anyone who is strong in the faith is never destroyed
You should talk about what you know.

John 1:1-18

Matthew 24:24
24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

Is it possible to deceive the elect?

John 18:8-9
8 Jesus answered, “I have told you that I am He. Therefore, if you seek Me, let these go their way,” 9 that the saying might be fulfilled which He spoke, “Of those whom You gave Me I have lost none.”

Ephesians 1:4-6
4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.

Romans 8:28-30
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

Is it possible for God to lose those given to the Son?

If so we have a problem

 

[justbyfaith]

So then you are indeed saying that Yeshua was praying to himself in Matthew 11:25 & Luke 10:21. That leads to other ridiculous problems like him talking to himself and sitting beside himself in Psalm 110:1; him sending himself in John 3:16, but tricking us into believing he was sending his Son; him not knowing the hour of his coming when he really did know it; him begetting himself; him being offered/presented to himself in Luke 2:22; him crying out to himself on the cross in Matthew 27:46; him turning the Kingdom over to himself and then subjecting himself to himself in 1 Corinthians 15:24-28; him worshiping himself as his own God in Revelation 3:12; him taking the scroll out of his own hand in Revelation 5:7; etc. Wake up out of your spiritual sleep young man.

I think you didn't read the post that has all of the quotes in it from a different thread (post #1443, page 73); as within it I think you will find the logical reasoning as to how and why these things can all be.

Foolish self-exaltation and ignorance of Scripture. You are no different than the deceived Jews who shut up the Kingdom of Heaven to men. Thankfully you have no control over who enters the Kingdom and cannot judge my standing with Yeshua (Romans 14:4) even though you love doing so.

Not the exalting of myself but the abasing of you. And 1 Corinthians 6:2-3 might tell you something different.

So then should we consider the question as to who our brother is? Surely we are to love those who are our brothers. Are we also to love those who are not? Can those who strongly disagree with us be our brothers according to God?

Yes, we are definitely to love those who are not...understanding that love is not always the feel-good type of thing that people want it to be. I would say that real love towards someone who isn't saved would motivate me to show him where he is before the Lord, so that he can make a change. Also, those we strongly disagree with can be our brothers as long as they are not dividing on issues that are essential to salvation (of which the Deity of Christ is one).

I can supply scripture to this post if requested.

Please do; for the sake of our edification: because even though we disagree on the issue of Christ's Deity, I think we have common ground on the issue of eternal security (even though what we both believe doesn't apply to you because you reject Christ's Deity: according to John 8:24).

Thank you, ByGrace, for not giving me the run around or making judgmental comments.

@"ByGrace" is a good person that way.

 

[amadeus]

amadeus said: ↑
So then should we consider the question as to who our brother is? Surely we are to love those who are our brothers. Are we also to love those who are not? Can those who strongly disagree with us be our brothers according to God?

Yes, we are definitely to love those who are not...understanding that love is not always the feel-good type of thing that people want it to be.

Love should be the "charity" [in the KJV] as per I Cor 13:4-7

I would say that real love towards someone who isn't saved would motivate me to show him where he is before the Lord, so that he can make a change.

The best way anyone can properly motivate another person is to always be like Jesus. If we are not, to the extent that we are not, we are putting on a show without good fruit.

Also, those we strongly disagree with can be our brothers as long as they are not dividing on issues that are essential to salvation (of which the Deity of Christ is one).

But who gets to decide the essentials as certainly different church groups [denominations and such] as well as different individuals if they have essential beliefs will certainly differ on the specifics? Who but Jesus among men sees other than as "through a glass darkly"? So then it would seem to me best to treat them all as if they were our brothers even if we don't believe that they are.
Consider how Jesus always treated Judas Iscariot even when we know that Jesus knew the man would planning to betray him.

 

[justbyfaith]

Love should be the "charity" [in the KJV] as per I Cor 13:4-7

The best way anyone can properly motivate another person is to always be like Jesus. If we are not, to the extent that we are not, we are putting on a show without good fruit.


But who gets to decide the essentials as certainly different church groups [denominations and such] as well as different individuals if they have essential beliefs will certainly differ on the specifics? Who but Jesus among men sees other than as "through a glass darkly"? So then it would seem to me best to treat them all as if they were our brothers even if we don't believe that they are.
Consider how Jesus always treated Judas Iscariot even when we know that Jesus knew the man would planning to betray him.

Every man is my brother in Adam at the very least; and I treat all men as brothers in Adam for that reason (in the hopes that they might be born again into my family so that we might be brothers in Christ).

Now in 1 Corinthians 13 it is written that love "rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth."

Also, 1 Corinthians 13 isn't the only passage that tells us what love might be.

I believe that Proverbs 28:23 and 2 Timothy 4:2 also identifies what love is, although the response to it might not be love (Amos 5:10). People generally feel hatred towards this kind of love (see also Proverbs 9:7-10).

It doesn't mean we aren't called to love them in this manner. Sometimes the realest form of love is the kind that you exhibit even when people hate you in return.

 

[amadeus]

Every man is my brother in Adam at the very least; and I treat all men as brothers in Adam for that reason (in the hopes that they might be born again into my family so that we might be brothers in Christ).

Adam was one thing prior to his disobedience and another after his disobedience, the difference between being alive and being dead.

Now in 1 Corinthians 13 it is written that love "rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth."

OK.

Also, 1 Corinthians 13 isn't the only passage that tells us what love might be.

OK.

I believe that Proverbs 28:23 and 2 Timothy 4:2 also identifies what love is, although the response to it might not be love (Amos 5:10). People generally feel hatred towards this kind of love (see also Proverbs 9:7-10).

But what is it we understand from any of these verses and others without being led by the Holy Ghost? What is the written Bible to a person without the Holy Ghost leading him?

It doesn't mean we aren't called to love them in this manner. Sometimes the realest form of love is the kind that you exhibit even when people hate you in return.

OK.

 

[APAK]

@justbyfaith

JIF: I see you like quoting scripture to me and as if you know what they mean. I have my doubts judging from you associated posts. Maybe you can convince me otherwise. I would like to challenge you for every verse or verses you present to me; you and I will provide understanding of each one. If I do not know what it means I will say so.

Are you on?

If so, how about starting off with your understanding of:

(Joh 8:24) I replied to you, that you shall die in your sins. For unless you believe that I am he, you shall die in your sins. (NEV)

I believe this is the last and your previous scripture verse you have sent to me. I guess you are signaling that I understand it as you do. You presume incorrectly.

Bless you, and I really mean it


God loves you as I

APAK

 

[justbyfaith]

But what is it we understand from any of these verses and others without being led by the Holy Ghost? What is the written Bible to a person without the Holy Ghost leading him?

I think that you are suggesting that I am not being led of the Holy Ghost...and I have to admit that I have been neglecting to pray every time I get on the internet that God would give me the words to say. So you may be right.

Please pray that the Holy Spirit searches my heart.

 

[gadar perets]

But what is it we understand from any of these verses and others without being led by the Holy Ghost? What is the written Bible to a person without the Holy Ghost leading him?

I sure hope you have not joined the gang that believes I don't have the Holy Spirit. Am I misunderstanding you?

 

[justbyfaith]

@justbyfaith

JIF: I see you like quoting scripture to me and as if you know what they mean. I have my doubts judging from you associated posts. Maybe you can convince me otherwise. I would like to challenge you for every verse or verses you present to me; you and I will provide understanding of each one. If I do not know what it means I will say so.

Are you on?

If so, how about starting off with your understanding of:

(Joh 8:24) I replied to you, that you shall die in your sins. For unless you believe that I am he, you shall die in your sins. (NEV)

I believe this is the last and your previous scripture verse you have sent to me. I guess you are signaling that I understand it as you do. You presume incorrectly.

Bless you, and I really mean it


God loves you as I

APAK

First off, God loves me more than you do. And He also loves you more than I love you...however He has placed within me a love for you that desires that you might be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.

Secondly, my interpretation of John 8:24 (based in the kjv and a few other translations) is that according to John 8:58, Jesus claimed to be the great I AM, and the scribes and Pharisees knew what He was claiming because they picked up stones to stone Him for blasphemy (John 8:59, John 10:31-33). In John 8:58 He broke the specific rules of grammatical usage in order to make a claim that went all the way back to Exodus 3:14.

Now in John 8:24 He is making the same claim and also adding with it the concept that if you don't believe His claim, you will die in your sins...which means that you will die unforgiven and unredeemed with your sins still condemning you because of your rejection of faith in Christ as He truly is (John 3:18-19).

 

[amadeus]

I think that you are suggesting that I am not being led of the Holy Ghost...and I have to admit that I have been neglecting to pray every time I get on the internet that God would give me the words to say. So you may be right.

Please pray that the Holy Spirit searches my heart.

I was not suggesting that really. I was stating my own position as I understand it. Praying without ceasing for any of us alone is an impossible thing, but for God in us, nothing is impossible. However, I try to never refuse such an humble request so I am praying for you right now.

The important thing, I believe, is to always be sincere with God and to practice continually surrendering ourselves to Him so He can continue His work within us. Anyone never misses on this is an unusual man and/or already at that "perfect man" status mentioned here:

"For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body." James 3:2

 

[justbyfaith]

I was not suggesting that really. I was stating my own position as I understand it. Praying without ceasing for any of us alone is an impossible thing, but for God in us, nothing is impossible. However, I try to never refuse such an humble request so I am praying for you right now.

The important thing, I believe, is to always be sincere with God and to practice continually surrendering ourselves to Him so He can continue His work within us. Anyone never misses on this is an unusual man and/or already at that "perfect man" status mentioned here:

"For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body." James 3:2

Amen.