Eternal Security

[marks]

Then your point is quite apart from the undeniable fact that the Bible exhorts us to keep believing, lol.

My point is that if our theologies do not agree with plainly stated Scriptures, we need to be relooking at them. We need to find harmonly with EVERYTHING in the Bible, including passages like these.

You speak of those children of God of whom you think they "stop believing", ceasing to be God's child. We all have our ideas, right?

I'm saying, according to the Bible, if you've been raised with Jesus, when He appears, you will in fact appear with Him in glory. Therefore your idea of a "born again person who stops believing" appears to me to be moot. None who are raised with Him now will fail to appear with Him then.

It's a simple verse, and either it means what it says, or it doesn't. It's against these plain statements we need to test our ideas, and if they don't match, be willing to change.

This is prophecy, and prophecy will be fulfilled.

Much love!

 

[bbyrd009]

I don’t know what most people believe here about the afterlife. Guess it would really depend on the context

 

[bbyrd009]

Ex-believers will not be appearing with him when he returns.
Only believers will.

when He “returns?”
return to Me and I will return to you

 

[MatthewG]

There most certainly is life after death. There have been many reports through near death experiences to suggest that. I believe it is all spiritual, myself. I don’t see any sitting on clouds, and playing the harp. Or worshiping God all day and night like mindless people you know.

My hope is after this life God willingly I can go help other people outside of the gates of the heavenly Jerusalem, especially if any of my family members are out there in the darkness, maybe I can go out there and help them with Jesus Christ with in me in my spiritual body going out there.

I do not know about everyone else.

 

[Truth7t7]

My hope is after this life God willingly I can go help other people outside of the gates of the heavenly Jerusalem, especially if any of my family members are out there in the darkness, maybe I can go out there and help them with Jesus Christ with in me in my spiritual body going out there.

I do not know about everyone else.

The eternal lake of fire will be outside the gates of New Jerusalem, It Will Be Tooo Late To Help Anyone, The Final Judgement Has Sealed Their Fate

Isaiah 66:22-24KJV
22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Revelation 22:14-15KJV
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

This is prophecy, and prophecy will be fulfilled.

If you keep holding fast to the gospel message. A.k.a. believing.

1 Corinthians 15:1-2

1 John 2:24-25

Hebrews 3:6

Hebrews 3:14

Revelation 3:2-3

 

[GRACE ambassador]

No need to pack a bunch of extra baggage onto this passage.

Colossians 3:1-4 KJV
1) If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2) Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3) For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4) When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

It's true as stated. And if you understand other passages which you feel are related to this one, if you have a correct understanding, you won't find the need to deny the clear and plain truth of this one.

But if you don't you may feel the need to change the meaning of this, again, simple and clear passage.

Not being able to accept that passage is true as stated is a sign of misunderstanding.

At least it is to me. I guess others feel freer in this regard.

Much love!

It's a simple verse, and either it means what it says, or it doesn't. It's against these plain statements we need to test our ideas, and if they don't match, be willing to change.

Precious friend, marks, THEIR feel freer idea of "the WHOLE counsel of God" is to
cherry-pick fragmented, pet verses, take them all OUT of context, re-interpret them
to fit THEIR theology (extra baggage), and then "pit those few Obscure/Difficult/Dubious verses AGAINST" The Vast Multitude Of Plain and Clear Passages Of God's Word Of Truth; ie: opposing Rule #6 of Bible "study" Rules:

(6) The Best "Interpretive" Commentary On The Bible Is :
The BIBLE Itself!

NEVER ever interpret The Many Plain Scriptures
by the "few" difficult verses, But, ALWAYS Always
Interpret the few Obscure/Difficult/Dubious verses
By ALL Of The MANY Plain and Clear Passages Of
God’s Pure And Holy Word!

I personally have found (in Comparison THEIR few 8-16?) about
12 Dozen Plain and Clear Passages THEY must deny/NEGATE,
as well as THE ALL-Sufficient Sacrifice Of The LORD JESUS,
in order to "teach temporary SELF-salvation.":

God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In CHRIST!
God's Eternal Assurance

In addition, not meant to be mean or unkind, but, there is another
command God Gives us in Romans 16:17 which is why I only plant, or water
behind someone else, such as @marks, and then go, Because, not I,
But "God Giveth The INCREASE!" (1 Corinthians 3:6) Amen?

Thus, with love and kindness, @Ferris Bueller knows why I
don't engage him any more

 

[Wynona]

If you keep holding fast to the gospel message. A.k.a. believing.

1 Corinthians 15:1-2

1 John 2:24-25

Hebrews 3:6

Hebrews 3:14

Revelation 3:2-3

I pray that those on the fence or unsure about whether we can lose our salvation or not take the time to read the Scriptures you've posted.

When one simply reads the Scripture with fresh eyes without any preconcieved ideas of what it ought to be saying, it's clear that salvation is contingent upon an enduring faith.

I can only see two ways to deny this: either insist on focusing exclusively on Scriptures with promises for believers or don't mention Scripture at all and repeat the eternal security mantra over and over again.

A lot of people have tied God's goodness to eternal security and see anti-OSAS messages as an attack on God's character. This is why these threads often go in circles.

Maybe there should be a thread with all the Scriptures pointing out that we must endure till the end and then let the once saved always saved camp wiggle out of that.

 

[marks]

it's clear that salvation is contingent upon an enduring faith.

I've found that the Bible teaches that enduring faith is contingent upon salvation, that is, a new creation.

This is a very different thing.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Hebrews 7:22-25 KJV
22) By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
23) And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:
24) But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.
25) Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

 

[marks]

What is the "new creation"? Why are we called a "new creation"? What is the "New man" we are to put on?

Is it a new creature that has been born from God, that was created with a righteous and holy nature?

Much love!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I've found that the Bible teaches that enduring faith is contingent upon salvation, that is, a new creation.

This is a very different thing.

Much love!

That's the Calvinist view.
I respect it. I don't agree with it, necessarily, but I respect it.
At least it defends the necessity for the obedience of faith.

What gets me is you got pretty upset when I suggested you have the Calvinistic view of OSAS.

 

[marks]

What does it mean to be justified? What are we justified from? Are we justified from all our sins? Some of our sins? By what means have we been justified?

I'd love to discuss any of these questions, respectfully, and from Scripture.

Much love!

 

[marks]

That's the Calvinist view.

Do you label for the purpose of dismissing?

It happens to be Paul's view, and he got it from Jesus, or so he said.

If you have been raised with Christ . . . you shall appear with Him in glory. Simple. Plain.

Much love!

 

[Wynona]

What is the "new creation"? Why are we called a "new creation"? What is the "New man" we are to put on?

Is it a new creature that has been born from God, that was created with a righteous and holy nature?

Much love!

Yes it is.

 

[marks]

you got pretty upset

When was that? I don't care if you label me Calvinist, people do that sort of thing. But labeling and like that is unproductive, and often times inaccurate, and if you were inaccurately labeling me, I may have pointed that out. And for someone to call this "being offended" or upset or whatever, yeah, I'm used to that too.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Yes it is.

The new creation, the new "you", a child of God, with a righteous and holy nature, does this new creation become corrupted by sin?

Much love!

 

[Wynona]

The new creation, the new "you", a child of God, with a righteous and holy nature, does this new creation become corrupted by sin?

Much love!

It sure can.

2 Peter 2:20-22
King James Version

20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

 

[Wynona]

The new creation, the new "you", a child of God, with a righteous and holy nature, does this new creation become corrupted by sin?

Much love!

Speaking of "corrupted"...

2 Corinthians 11:3 KJV

3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

 

[marks]

Speaking of "corrupted"...

2 Corinthians 11:3 KJV

3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

This is the very thing I speaking of, the simplicity that is in Christ. Much love!

For I have been crucified together with Christ, and yet I live, and yet not I, but Christ lives in me, and the life I live, I live by the faith of Christ, Who loved me, and gave Himself for me.

Who will separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus?

Now we are children of God, and it does not yet appear what we shall be, but we know that when we see Him, we will be like Him.

Some may question why I raise this issue, and why I continue to pursue it.

We know that when we see Him, we will be like Him.

Do we, CAN we in fact know?

If we say, no, we cannot be certain, how does that change what John says next?

He who has this hope purifies himself, even as He is pure.

This hope, this is a particular "hope". And hope, Biblical hope, does not disappoint. Biblical hope is what we believe will happen being in Christ.

Jesus promised to raise us from the dead. So to the extent that we believe Jesus, that will be the extent of our expectation of resurrection. We believe what He said was true, so we have the hope of resurrection.

Here, it's knowing that we will be like Him when we see Him. That's the hope John is referring to. That when we have this hope, we purify ourselves, even as Jesus is pure.

Isn't that what we want? Isn't the fear that we will become impure, and be lost?

By God's promise, I trust in His salvation, and I know He will fully transform me into the image of Christ. Some will happen during my time here in this world, and, as I understand this, will result in whatever amount of glory I will have after this world. And the rest will happen as God resurrects me to my redeemed flesh, incorruptible, and immortal.

By distrusting God's promise, saying "Maybe", introducing doubt, works directly against us in our desire to be pure, as we start to look at what things we have to do to be right with God, our eyes falling away from Jesus, and His saving grace.

By trusting His promise, we open ourselves in faith to receive from Him the power of His Spirit.

Much love!