Expose on Mormonism.
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I don't know of any group with an already established set of doctrines that always teaches it all right. This is my point. You focus on those named three as if anyone in them is bound to miss the way to God. That is not how God works.
"Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled." Matt 5:6
How do you know who among those is really hungry or thirsty for the right things and who is not? Or in any other group already condemned by the supposed powers that be... which powers are NOT God?
Then go preach your message to their unsaved fellows who are hungry and thirsty. Don't try to force feed anyone. Jesus never did that.
Is it? Then why did you mention it?
What was obvious to them may not be so obvious to you or to me even though we may think so.
But... who among Christians knows the difference between what he really knows and what he only believes? Are there not some things that each of us thinks he knows but actually only believes? Is it not possibly or even likely that some of those things are embraced in error?
"He must increase, but I must decrease" John 3:30
But all of our study without the leading of the Holy Ghost is a wasted effort. God does not give us every answer we want but rather every answer that He decides that we need.
Glad you were able to help.
Even if you are called to preach and/or teach, you can only share what you have with someone whose door is open. For good reason of bad, we are not to break the door down to force feed anyone. God put the choice in each person's hands. Of course you believe you are correct, but so do I and so do many in these groups you describe as cults. Arm twisting is still not allowed.
If humans are not harvesters, why you insist on putting these outside the Church when they say they belong? Because you are right? Even that does not give you the right to push them out.
from yesterdays exposes one would not of thought so..
Totally agreed.
ANY person's relationship with God is just that- a relationship, and it's individual. It's not about labels. We need to see and love the other individuals in our lives, even when it seems like they are doing totally wrong things. If we look to labels or what *we* think someone is, we will miss that person and risk missing Christ.
Maybe so, but if you want to really get to know Christ you are going to have to walk away from all that religion, it puts boxes around God and Jesus , like a plant in a flower pot, your roots have no where to go, so you never grow into that tree that Jesus desires,
Jesus has so much to offer us, if only we will let him out of that religious box we shove Him in. I do hope you get to see Him, it something you will never forget...than you wont want anything to do with religion. God and Jesus dont have a religious bone between them.
In my own personal testimony, I hungered and thirsted after righteousness, and was filled, for a full year of studying my Bible...but was not saved...because my righteousness was in the law and not by the faith of Jesus Christ (Philippians 3:9)...I was seeking to establish my own righteousness and was not submitting to the righteousness of the Lord (Romans 10:3-4)...I based not my salvation on what Christ had done for me but rather on what I could do to save myself (see 1 Corinthians 15:1-4).
I don't think that having a structured group of believers or communal faith is inherently a bad thing. It can certainly become a very bad thing if it comes to replace/blind that individual relationship a person has with Christ-- totally. But when kept in it's proper supporting role, it can be a very good thing. God is always the King. His servants are (flawed) helpers. Again, nothing to replace that individual relationship with Christ, only support it.
Perhaps you have explained your problem for yourself. Until you understood what was lacking I do not believe God held it against you. When you understood you took care of it. If you had died physically prior to having understood the lack, I don't believe God would have charged you with the lack. Is our God unfair? Is He a respecter of persons? He knows how much we know and we understands what we are doing with what we have and why. Don't sell Him short!
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
2 Corinthians 11:4 New International Version (NIV)
4 For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the Spirit you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.
I never said a word about pushing anybody out. So don't go there.
Revelation 14:14-20 New International Version (NIV)
Harvesting the Earth and Trampling the Winepress
14 I looked, and there before me was a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was one like a son of mana]">[a] with a crown of gold on his head and a sharp sickle in his hand. 15 Then another angel came out of the temple and called in a loud voice to him who was sitting on the cloud, “Take your sickle and reap, because the time to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is ripe.” 16 So he who was seated on the cloud swung his sickle over the earth, and the earth was harvested.
17 Another angel came out of the temple in heaven, and he too had a sharp sickle. 18 Still another angel, who had charge of the fire, came from the altar and called in a loud voice to him who had the sharp sickle, “Take your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of grapes from the earth’s vine, because its grapes are ripe.” 19 The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God’s wrath. 20 They were trampled in the winepress outside the city, and blood flowed out of the press, rising as high as the horses’ bridles for a distance of 1,600 stadia,
1 Corinthians 3:7 New International Version (NIV)
7 So neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow.
John 4:37 New International Version (NIV)
37 Thus the saying ‘One sows and another reaps’ is true.
I have gotten people out of cults but it required patience and diligence and accuracy.
We are in the end times and there the context is the two harvests of revelations.
But apparently you were not speaking in those terms so I posted the appropriate verse.
I also remind you the apostles were told to shake the dust off their sandals and keep moving with certain people.
But nothing I said justified you saying basically either agree with me or get out.
I repeat, we are commanded to study under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
Whether you know it or not what you say appears to say study is pretty much irrelevant.
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Moses was in the desert for 40 years alone till he was ready, even Jesus after His baptism went into the desert for 40 days, Noah in the Ark 40 days and 40 nights, the israelites 40 years in the desert, if you want to know Christ and God than you have to become separated from the world and all this religious stuff, it will just hinder your walk more than help it.. Nice to have friends id rather know Christ... can be a very lonely walk, but you get out of it what you put in.. A thousand years in church doesnt compare to a moment with Christ. But it is your choice....
I was without Christ and attempting to establish my own righteousness as my acceptance before Him. Therefore, He would have judged me on the basis of that righteousness, which was as filthy rags before Him (Isaiah 64:6).
Works do not save anyone (Ephesians 2:9 and context).
My trust was not in Jesus Christ but in my own works to save me; I would have been condemned if I had died physically before receiving the imputation of Christ's righteousness to my account.
Now that my righteousness is the righteousness of faith (and not by the works of the law) (Philippians 3:9), it is as fine linen before Him (Revelation 19:8).
It is His righteousness applied to my account, the only righteousness that could ever measure up in order to gain me acceptance into God's kingdom.
So you did not push, but you have excluded or agreed to the exclusion that someone else had put in place. Ultimately how is that different?
I don't believe that @Jane_Doe22 tried to preach a gospel. She simply answered your questions. You did not take her as she was or really find out how she was. You were biased against her from the start because she said she was a Mormon and you already had placed all Mormons into what you classify as a cult. All guilty until proven innocent. You directed this whole exposé to her initially. She responded in a polite manner. Your purpose seemingly was to prove that she was in error and should abandon her church in favor of what you were offering. What you were offering smelled pretty badly presuming she had nothing worthwhile at all.
When she attempted to correct you, you dismissed her explanations and to worked to finish your task. Did you believe God needed you to prove her error to her?
So then shake the dust with regard to her if you believe that applies. If it does then your conversation with her should be finished. But remember that you're not at the door to her home, but on an open forum and you invited her to the thread. She is the guest. You don't consider the way you treated your guest as being rude?
My point was that these people have been excluded from many places as not being followers of Christ even though they confess that they are. Some may not be, but you haven't convinced many here that @Jane_Doe22 is not a follower of Jesus. Applying labels to her that have been put on Mormons in general is a very biased approach to the conversation.
If I unintentionally and unnecessarily offended you I do apologize. I admit to mixing up the words of yourself and the other fellow, @CoreIssue . If I answered to one when it should have been to the other and as a result it came out wrong I certainly apologize for that.
It says study, but as obedience to God to obtain His approval, not to learn. If we do learn something good it comes through the Holy Spirit rather than our singular efforts. We don't direct the Holy Spirit. We yield and according to God's will we are then directed. We do not choose the direction.
If you are finished with your little inquisition then I am also through. Your beliefs are your own, but you accusations based on presumptions of guilt rather innocence should be opposed.
Helen
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Wow, who died and made you the Judge of God's people?
You know nothing about her heart.
I believe she has been very gracious in even responding to you.
I wouldn't have done so.
wadr, that was me, not @CoreIssue.
I have not claimed to know anything about her heart. (although Isaiah 56:1-2, 1 Corinthians 6:2-3, Philippians 1:9 give me the right to judge "God's people": and, of course, Jesus is the One who died) I do know that the doctrines of Mormonism are spiritually poison to the heart, however.
So I suppose that I am judging her heart by proxy, by virtue of the knowledge of what Mormonism does to the heart.
But certainly not directly.
Praise the Lord!
I suspect that there are some closet (or, "stealth") Mormons within the ranks of those who come to these message boards (not necessarily you, @"ByGrace").
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I am not the only one who classifies Mormonism (not "Mormons") as a cult. It should be pretty clear that orthodox Christianity classifies Mormonism as a cult. Blue Letter Bible is a respected Christian website. But now I suspect it will come under attack by the Mormons because it contains information that refutes their faith so aptly as it does.
That is a funny question. Of course God uses His people to get His will accomplished on the earth (although He doesn't need us). We are privileged to be used by Him. Have you never heard the song where the songwriter complains to God, "Why don't you do something about all of this evil that I see?" And the response of God is, "I did! I created you!"
Obedience to God does not obtain His approval. Only faith in Jesus does that.
Now the doctrines of Mormonism are a belief system that, no doubt, produces a people that appear to be righteous (see 2 Corinthians 11:13-15). And maybe they even are righteous according to every outward standard of conduct.
However, Jesus "accused" the Pharisees of being outwardly righteous before men, but that inwardly they were full of all extortion and excess. That they were like whitewashed tombs that were full of dead men's bones.
Only every individual knows for themselves whether that applies to them personally.
But I happen to know that it only applies to every person who has not been saved/redeemed/made into a new creature in Christ, by the grace of God (see Titus 3:3).
I say this knowing that I will probably get even more flack.
But Jesus even said to His brothers, The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth because I testify of it that its deeds are evil. (John 7:7).
And if we as followers of Christ are hated by the world because we follow His example and do the same thing, He told us that we ought not to marvel at it.
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She is promoting "Another Testament of Jesus Christ" simply by saying that she believes in it and by putting her best foot forward.
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
If you mean rejecting teaching something other than what the Bible does on the core requirements to be a Christian, indeed I do.
To violate the core means one is not saved, so that should not be allowed to stand and keep destroying people, spiritually speaking.
Like Mother Teresa. She comforted and embraced Muslims who were dying without ever trying to save, in example.
I call that loving them all way to hell.
You cannot show me anywhere in the Bible that teaches us to embrace error.
My purpose was to hopefully to open her eyes to what was wrong with Mormonism.
She responded saying what I posted was loaded with error.
I've had several close Catholic friends and some Mormon friends. My uncle and aunt are JW's.
They know I disagree with them but we remain friends.
She needs to abandon Mormonism for Christ in the Bible. I am nondenominational.
How can someone who believes in error correct someone?
God works through us, so she needs someone.
Here you go again with the old thing of leave it up to the Holy Spirit. If that were the case the prophets in the apostles were never needed. Nor is the Bible.
I hope you realize the Holy Spirit guides people to the right people that can help them.
I think the reality here is you don't like what I said about Oneness.
So then shake the dust with regard to her if you believe that applies. If it does then your conversation with her should be finished. But remember that you're not at the door to her home, but on an open forum and you invited her to the thread. She is the guest. You don't consider the way you treated your guest as being rude?
My point was that these people have been excluded from many places as not being followers of Christ even though they confess that they are. Some may not be, but you haven't convinced many here that @Jane_Doe22 is not a follower of Jesus. Applying labels to her that have been put on Mormons in general is a very biased approach to the conversation.
If I unintentionally and unnecessarily offended you I do apologize. I admit to mixing up the words of yourself and the other fellow, @CoreIssue . If I answered to one when it should have been to the other and as a result it came out wrong I certainly apologize for that.
It says study, but as obedience to God to obtain His approval, not to learn. If we do learn something good it comes through the Holy Spirit rather than our singular efforts. We don't direct the Holy Spirit. We yield and according to God's will we are then directed. We do not choose the direction.
If you are finished with your little inquisition then I am also through. Your beliefs are your own, but you accusations based on presumptions of guilt rather innocence should be opposed. [/QUOTE]
Nothing I said about Mormonism was inaccurate
As far as accusations go, the only thing I said was she does not know it is much about her own religion as she thinks she does. That based on what a regular Mormon and Temple Mormon are taught, her being a regular Mormon.
@CoreIssue,
In post #117, you have some of what @amadeus said and it is not under quote form. That might be confusing for someone. Just a head's up so you can fix it.
In post #117, you have some of what @amadeus said and it is not under quote form. That might be confusing for someone. Just a head's up so you can fix it.
What you said about Oneness doesn't bother me. I have been baptized by immersion in Jesus' name four times and I consider myself to be a true Trinitarian. I do feel that some who think that they believe in the Trinity, actually believe in Tritheism, however; which is relevant to the discussion on Mormonism since Mormons are verily Tritheists and then Polytheists in their theology. I am also very secure in my faith as a Oneness Pentecostal (I consider myself to be such because of my baptisms, not because of my understanding of the Trinity, which I think may differ from that of most Oneness Pentecostals since I was never indoctrinated by the church; but I could be wrong).
Well actually, since you insist, ever since Pentecost. all men ever needed was , is the Holy Spirit, its that most put the bible above Him ,even God and Jesus, it is not Gods doing, We where after Pentecost meant to be led by His Spirit and be taught by Him just so few believe they can, that is the fault of religion and men not God. And so today God doesnt need teaches, prophets evangelists etc, since now we can all know these thing, but that requires Eyes to see, ears to hear, and faith...
Gal_1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
1Jn_2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
Eph_4:21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
and lastly
Act_2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
its hapenning even now...
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