I editted my post . . . fyi . . . fwiw . . .How you think on this is your concern, not mine.
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I editted my post . . . fyi . . . fwiw . . .How you think on this is your concern, not mine.
I was just wondering, since you've been responding to me, if you even knew what I think on this. But it's becoming pretty clear you don't. So I don't really know what you are responding to. Your other post though gave me more understanding of how you are thinking here.How you think on this is your concern, not mine.
I wouldn't so much say that the Devil hijacked God's creation, but rather that God created our reality for the Devil's education and let him have a hand in it (God knew there was a serpent in the garden). We see in the book of Job, that God is actively teaching the Devil moral lessons and giving him power over peoples' lives to tempt them. The Devil is still a child of God.This puts you in agreement with @Adam as well as @Episkopos who wrote:
"It should be noted that at one point all the virgins of Israel (including the Church of Christ) will have fallen asleep....
-When our time in the simulation is finally over, the human soul will continue to live beyond the perceptions we have had of this world through the carnal senses.
He describes this life as a simulation that began with the fall of Adam and Eve, who he says were forced to live in a lower order of reality where the Devil and his angels had hijacked God's creation.
"Now it takes faith to acknowledge that this present world is only a temporal simulation of reality" -he writes.
You might be surprised to find yourself in such close alignment with his beliefs @marks
So one thing represents another, but who is to say, the vision was not what is real (just on another spiritual plane where existence is more formless) and this world is not just a lowered state of consciousness? Though I agree with your point - that the symbols of a divine vision, and the objects of our reality, are different but have direct correspondence with eachother, and they share some kind of underlying logic. I never disputed this.Why speculate?
I was attentive that night and saw a man seated on a red horse that stood among some myrtle trees in the ravine. Behind him were red, sorrel, and white horses.
Then I asked one nearby, “What are these, sir?” (referring to the horses of various colors)
The angelic messenger who replied to me said, “I will show you what these are.” Then the man standing among the myrtle trees spoke up and said, “These are the ones whom the LORD has sent to walk about on the earth.” The riders then agreed with the angel of the LORD, who was standing among the myrtle trees, “We have been walking about on the earth, and now everything is at rest and quiet.” The angel of the LORD then asked, “O LORD of Heaven’s Armies, how long before you have compassion on Jerusalem and the other cities of Judah that you have been so angry with for these 70 years?” The LORD then addressed good, comforting words to the angelic messenger who was speaking to me. Turning to me, the messenger then said, “Cry out that the LORD of Heaven’s Armies says, ‘I am very much moved for Jerusalem and for Zion. But I am greatly displeased with the nations that take my grace for granted. I was a little displeased with them, but they have only made things worse for themselves.
Horses-- and riders.
--and we are told that these horses (and riders) are the ones sent walking about the earth. Spirits? Angels? Demons? Job tells us that they are 'sons of God' and Zechariah tells us that the Lord is the one who sent them out on patrol....
Now the day came when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD—and Satan also arrived among them. The LORD said to Satan, “Where have you come from?” And Satan answered the LORD, “From roving about on the earth, and from walking back and forth across it.” So the LORD said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and turns away from evil.”
The main thing to remember is that. The form of this world is passing away, therefore set your affections on what is above.
This may be quite tangential, but I have always as a kid thought that the Son of Man was kind of a weird title for Jesus to give himself. Aren't we all sons of Man? It's like he's walking around saying he's "THE Human". I don't think the title means "Jesus is a human" but rather that Jesus is the offspring of humanity. That is, the spiritual product of mankind as a whole. God created mankind in order to produce Jesus. Jesus is the Son of God through Mankind.
What I mean is, that Jesus was perfected to unity with God via Mankind.Jesus was physical. A real boy, not some sort of Pinnochio who became a boy. Jesus was born here. Son of man.
The Son of God is spirit, as the Father is spirit.
Flesh gives birth to flesh, spirit gives birth to spirit.
That would be a surprising and interesting read. What traditions would that be?What I mean is, that Jesus was perfected to unity with God via Mankind.
Revelation 3:21
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
Jesus was granted to sit in God's throne because He overcame the world.
In some traditions, it is believed that Adam became David, who became the Messiah (and with probably a lot more in between). This is why the Messiah is called the Son of David.
42So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
Sects of St. Thomas Christianity and JudaismThat would be a surprising and interesting read. What traditions would that be?
Sects of St. Thomas Christianity and Judaism
Quotes below where God calls David the Messiah:
Jeremiah 33
15 In those days, and at that time, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land.
Ezekiel 34
23 And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, even my servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd.
24 And I the Lord will be their God, and my servant David a prince among them; I the Lord have spoken it.
Ezekiel 37
24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.
26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.
You'll notice the similarities between Adam and David as well, in their relationship to women. David saw the soul of Eve in Bathsheba and wanted her restored to him. In fact - it was always meant to be his destiny to have her, Uriah was not actually killed by David, he dies by coincidence during the war and David's murder plot was never enacted. David's flaw was that he didn't wait for God to sanctify the union. Likely Adam's sin was having sex with Eve before God sanctified it, and thereby creating Mankind in a fallen state; and since the crime was to cause mankind to fall, the restitution is to give mankind salvation: Jesus.
...Also, John the Baptist is Elijah
Matthew 17
10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.
Luke 1
13 But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.
14 And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth.
15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.
The weak arguments by "one life and you're done" advocates is that David "symbolized" the Messiah or Elias "symbolized" John. As though a "symbol" has no meaning, and they can nullify things they don't understand by waving it off as symbolic. As you and I know, the symbol has all the meaning and not the flesh, as the symbol is what is spiritually true, while the flesh is just a vessel for the spirit.
I think considering too hard how mankind reflects God is too dangerous for a tiny mind like mine. The man of sin sits in the temple of God, showing himself he is God. As the apostle Paul said, let me shrink so that the Holy Spirit can grow. There is a part of us that wants to believe we are God, and paradoxically, to return to God that is the part of ourself we have to destroy.I can do ya one better.
This thread has run its course, but have you ever considered Adam to be a reflection (image) of God, Himself? (our Father) - The family tree from which all sons have come.
Would make an interesting thread.
Here I have a question. Concerning you can’t get oil from someone else …why did the wise have extra? (Equipped) Something they did right on their part? Or who gave (provided) (equipped) them with extra oil, and for what purpose?We are told in the book of James.
But if anyone is deficient in wisdom, he should ask God, who gives to all generously and without reprimand, and it will be given to him.
It's advice for fools. It's advice for those with no extra oil.
But the foolish ones didn't recognize God as the one to ask for the wisdom they lacked. They thought they could get it from others-
The foolish ones said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil because our lamps are going out.’
The wise ones left them in their deficient state-- 'You think you can obtain wisdom on your own? Have at 'er....'
Go instead to those who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.’
The parable tells us the result of their efforts.
But while they had gone to buy it, the bridegroom arrived, and those who were ready went inside with him to the wedding banquet. Then the door was shut. Later, the other virgins came too, saying, ‘Lord, lord! Let us in!’ But he replied, ‘I tell you the truth, I do not know you!’ Therefore stay alert because you do not know the day or the hour.
It's not that you can't obtain wisdom on your own. There are folks willing to sell it to you. You can pay $44.31 on Amazon and get a certain brand of wisdom, or you can pay $60K a year in tuition and get another kind.
Or you can ask the Father, who supplies oil to any who ask, and a certain amount to those who don't even bother-- for free.
Here I have a question. Concerning you can’t get oil from someone else …why did the wise have extra? (Equipped) Something they did right on their part? Or who gave (provided) (equipped) them with extra oil, and for what purpose?
Having extra virgin olive oil, the extra reminds me of: 2 Corinthians 8:14-15 But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality: [15] As it is written, He that had gathered much had nothing over; and he that had gathered little had no lack.
In searching for the above verse, I came across the below which I have never paid attention to “that my joy is the joy of you all” in relation to the parable. 2 Corinthians 2:3-10 And I wrote this same unto you, lest, when I came, I should have sorrow from them of whom I ought to rejoice; having confidence in you all, that my joy is the joy of you all. [4] For out of much affliction and anguish of heart I wrote unto you with many tears; not that ye should be grieved, but that you might know the love which I have more abundantly (extra oil?) unto you. [5] But if any have caused grief, he has not grieved me, but in part: that I may not overcharge you all. [6] Sufficient to such a man is this punishment, which was inflicted of many. [7] So that contrariwise you ought rather to forgive him, and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow. [8] Wherefore I beseech you that you would confirm your love toward him. [9] For to this end also did I write, that I might know the proof of you, whether you be obedient in all things. [10] To whom you forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ;
I do see your point.You are responsible for you, and I'm responsible for me-- not me for you or you for me.
I do see your point.
2 Corinthians 1:24 Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy: for by faith you stand.