False Doctrine of the "Secret Rapture".

[Hobie]

They are currently enjoying life at a safe distance, and have been since the Cross. It is called Paradise. They are gathered from from one corner of heaven to the other. Paradise is where they are gathered from.

But the church does not come to earth. After meeting in the air in a very public way, they return to Paradise and told to wait during the Trumpets and Thunders, the final harvest. Jesus and the angels are then on the earth gathering the final harvest. This is declared in the 5th Seal:

"And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled."

This little season is the time of Jacob's trouble. This waiting starts even before the 6th Seal is opened, and before the 7th Seal. But time will not matter. The 4th, 5th, and 6th Seals will happen very quickly.

The final harvest is the Trumpets and Thunders.

Where do you get this confused line of thought, as its way off.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Where do you get this confused line of thought, as its way off.

He is close though.
He is tying in "harvest" as did Jesus.
The bride / groom dynamic and harvest are just some of the omissions of postribbers.
They definitely do not know their bibles

 

[rebuilder 454]

Oh man! trying to 'create' a separate time doctrine just based on the terms "day of the Lord" and "great day of God Almighty" is exactly... what those stuck on man's false pre-trib rapture theory do!

The "day of the Lord" = "the great day of God Almighty"

That is when Jesus Christ returns in our near future, the LAST DAY of this present world, the "last trump", or 7th Trumpet. That also will be the day of the last part of the 6th Seal. It is also the day of the 7th Vial of God's Wrath poured out. All that happens on the SAME DAY of Christ's coming. And all... that is written.

....so ironic that it is postribs that actually base and center their theories on one liners.
"Last Day"
" day of the Lord"
"Last trump"
"Escapist"
"Lahaye"
"Darby"
"Church Fathers/ dead men"
"Satanic doctrine"
"Liars"
Then dishonestly omit the pretrib rapture verses.
SMH

 

[Timtofly]

Where do you get this confused line of thought, as its way off.

The 5th Seal is Paul's rapture when the entire church is glorified. Putting on the robe of white is putting on life (non-death/immortality). Why use immortality, when life works just as well. Putting on the robe of white is putting on the spirit, the complete restoration as sons of God, soul, body, and spirit. That robe of white is waiting for us in heaven.

 

[David in NJ]

He is close though.
He is tying in "harvest" as did Jesus.
The bride / groom dynamic and harvest are just some of the omissions of postribbers.
They definitely do not know their bibles

JESUS was speaking to His Bride in Matthew chapter 24

Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

 

[David in NJ]

....so ironic that it is postribs that actually base and center their theories on one liners.
"Last Day"
" day of the Lord"
"Last trump"
"Escapist"
"Lahaye"
"Darby"
"Church Fathers/ dead men"
"Satanic doctrine"
"Liars"
Then dishonestly omit the pretrib rapture verses.
SMH

Have you forgotten that the LORD Jesus Christ is a 'Postribber'

 

[rebuilder 454]

Have you forgotten that the LORD Jesus Christ is a 'Postribber'

We both agree he returns postrib.
Jesus placed the rapture of the bride pretrib.
Only through omission can we change the timing.
But why?

 

[rebuilder 454]

JESUS was speaking to His Bride in Matthew chapter 24

Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

He was speaking to his bride many places.
He told peter, his bride, get behind me Satan.
So we can see your point can basically mean whatever you want it to be.

 

[David in NJ]

He was speaking to his bride many places.
He told peter, his bride, get behind me Satan.
So we can see your point can basically mean whatever you want it to be.

Did HE tell His Bride that HE was Coming for us before the Antichrist?

If you can find that in Scripture you would have solid ground to stand on = and i would stand right next to you on it.

 

[Timtofly]

Have you forgotten that the LORD Jesus Christ is a 'Postribber'

Yes, post tribulation of the last 1994 years of the NT church. Every generation has had the tribulation of those days, and "great" means that it would last for almost 2,000 years.

Jesus is not post Jacob's Trouble. Jesus is on the earth with the 144k and all the angels during Jacob's Trouble. It is Israel's Trouble because 2 thirds will be cast alive into the LOF as goats, and only a third will live to see the Day of the Lord as sheep.

 

[David in NJ]

Thanks Tim,

Can you post the scriptures where you see the LORD on earth during Jacob's Trouble.

Thank you

 

[Timtofly]

Thanks Tim,

Can you post the scriptures where you see the LORD on earth during Jacob's Trouble.

Thank you

Matthew 13:36-40

"Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field. He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man (can only happen after the 6th Seal, Second Coming event); The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world."

Both Jesus and Satan are actively "on the campaign trail" so to speak during the Trumpets and Thunders. This cannot happen after Revelation 19 into the time frame of Revelation 20. For one, Satan is bound in the pit. For another, all humanity have already physically died.

The harvest at the end of the world is not the end of the world. The harvest is the final harvest before the Day of the Lord. This harvest is gathered by the angels after the rapture and Second Coming. This harvest deals with the 8+ billion souls currently alive on the earth. Jesus is not sitting up in heaven zapping people from afar.

You all accept that Jesus physically walked the earth as the Messiah cut off in the first century. Why for God's sake, would you deny Jesus walking the earth as Prince before He is announced King of all nations at the 7th Trumpet? Jesus is gathering His Kingdom via the wheat and also the sheep of Matthew 25:31-34

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand,"

This coming of the Son of man is Jesus at the Second Coming. It is prior to all on earth being killed. This sitting on a throne in a temple in Jerusalem will happen. Jesus will be pronounced King after the final harvest, and the angels will be gathering all humanity, not part of the church, because the church left at the Second Coming, not years later after the final harvest.

And this is Jacob's trouble because the sheep and goats are Israel, and the 144k are sealed before this judgment on Israel even starts. Reformed theology teaches this is only about the church and the lost, and they steal Israel from being physical Jacob, and turn this into a spiritual symbolic nightmare. They deny the angels are physically on the earth removing souls from physical bodies and putting the sheep into permanent incorruptible physical bodies. They deny that the angels are physically tossing the goats and tares into the LOF.

"Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels."

"And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."

This is the same place the beast and false prophet are tossed into:

"These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone."

Why does John have to repeat to the exact term or even the exact way Jesus already taught decades prior? We know that the LOF is available during this time. But theology teaches us that Matthew 13 and Matthew 25 have been ongoing for the last 2 millennia, just like amil teach about Revelation and a series of recaps all starting in the first century.

You asked for Scripture. Maybe no verse tells you what you want to hear. The only proof verse, that post trib people have is in Matthew and Mark, and is quoted out of context, even though English grammer seams airtight. The words seem specific and direct, but they also contradict other Scripture which is not being taken as specific and defined, even though they should be. One must not take 2 verses of the same address, and form doctrine, and then change the rest of Scripture that contradicts that doctrine. One must understand why there is a contrast in interpretation.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Did HE tell His Bride that HE was Coming for us before the Antichrist?

If you can find that in Scripture you would have solid ground to stand on = and i would stand right next to you on it.

Oh I TOTALLY AGREE that the AC is revealed FIRST then the rapture.
Do a study on "revealed".
Obama was REVEALED before he ever took power.
ANY BELIEVER will be able to see the AC for who he is LONG BEFORE he takes power.
So "revealed" has no bearing on hoping for a postrib rapture.
One of your main banners. Your only flagship verse , is a huge massive dud.
AC revealed, three days later, a week later, a month later, the rapture .

way way way pretrib.
Rapture pretrib as Jesus declared in Matt 24...& matt 25, rev 14.

 

[Douggg]

Oh I TOTALLY AGREE that the AC is revealed FIRST then the rapture.
Do a study on "revealed".
Obama was REVEALED before he ever took power.
ANY BELIEVER will be able to see the AC for who he is LONG BEFORE he takes power.
So "revealed" has no bearing on hoping for a postrib rapture.
One of your main banners. Your only flagship verse , is a huge massive dud.
AC revealed, three days later, a week later, a month later, the rapture .

way way way pretrib.
Rapture pretrib as Jesus declared in Matt 24...& matt 25, rev 14.

Hi rebuilder 454, although I do believe that a pre-trib rapture timing is possible, I also think it is possible that the rapture may take place after the 70th week begins. I call my rapture timing view "the anytime rapture view". Anytime between right this very second until the day the Antichrist commits the transgression of desolation act. Here is my chart of it.

 

[David in NJ]

Oh I TOTALLY AGREE that the AC is revealed FIRST then the rapture.
Do a study on "revealed".
Obama was REVEALED before he ever took power.
ANY BELIEVER will be able to see the AC for who he is LONG BEFORE he takes power.
So "revealed" has no bearing on hoping for a postrib rapture.
One of your main banners. Your only flagship verse , is a huge massive dud.
AC revealed, three days later, a week later, a month later, the rapture .

way way way pretrib.
Rapture pretrib as Jesus declared in Matt 24...& matt 25, rev 14.

Scripture only speaks of The AC "revealing" when he enters into power = 2 Thessalonians chapter 2

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
5Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

You CANNOT have a 'revelaing' while the Holy Spirit is RESTRAINING the AC = verse 6

v6 - "And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time."

 

[David in NJ]

Hi rebuilder 454, although I do believe that a pre-trib rapture timing is possible, I also think it is possible that the rapture may take place after the 70th week begins. I call my rapture timing view "the anytime rapture view". Anytime between right this very second until the day the Antichrist commits the transgression of desolation act. Here is my chart of it.





View attachment 43852

a.) pre-trib rapture is IMPOSSIBLE

b.) God NEVER spoke of a pre-trib rapture = NEVER

c.) the 70th WEEK Began when JESUS came to earth

d.) Return to (a)

 

[Douggg]

a.) pre-trib rapture is IMPOSSIBLE

b.) God NEVER spoke of a pre-trib rapture = NEVER

c.) the 70th WEEK Began when JESUS came to earth

d.) Return to (a)

Hi David, the full 70th week is still unfulfilled because there are timeframes of end time events necessitates it. Such as the time of the end 2300 days of Daniel 8:13-14, and the 1290 days and 1335 days of Daniel 12:11-12.

And the 1260 days of Revelation 12:6 in conjunction by being followed by the time, times, half time of Revelation 12:14 for a total of 7 years.

--------------------------------

pre-trib term is actually a misnomer. What is meant is pre-70th week.

The misnomer is because the advocates of the pre-trib rapture consider the entire 70th week as tribulation. Which it will not be because for most of the first half of it, the world will be saying peace and safety, thinking it has entered the messianic age.

 

[David in NJ]

Hi David, the full 70th week is still unfulfilled because there are timeframes of end time events necessitates it. Such as the time of the end 2300 days of Daniel 8:13-14, and the 1290 days and 1335 days of Daniel 12:11-12.

And the 1260 days of Revelation 12:6 in conjunction by being followed by the time, times, half time of Revelation 12:14 for a total of 7 years.

--------------------------------

pre-trib term is actually a misnomer. What is meant is pre-70th week.

The misnomer is because the advocates of the pre-trib rapture consider the entire 70th week as tribulation. Which it will not be because for most of the first half of it, the world will be saying peace and safety, thinking it has entered the messianic age.

We are currently in the 70th Week.

The 70th Began when the WORD became flesh and dwelt among us.

 

[Douggg]

We are currently in the 70th Week.

Each week of Daniel 9 represent 7 years.

 

[David in NJ]

Which is why JESUS ministry lasted approxiametely 3.5 years.