For The 9999th Time, OSAS (Albeit Testimony Time)

[BarneyFife]

I personally don’t believe Christ has come to manifest me, rather himself.

Thank you for your participation.

 

[justbyfaith]

I prefer the NASB but it still makes no difference since God does the following:

1- sanctifies us wholly
2- our spirit,soul and body are preserved blameless
3- God being faithful and the One that calls us will also do it

hope this helps !!!

It is a question of when a man will be sanctified wholly. In some translations, it gives the impression that you have to wait until Jesus is right there in the clouds to meet us.

 

[Waiting on him]

Thank you for your participation.

Your welcome, and please consider humility isn’t thinking meanly of yourself, humility is not thinking of yourself at all.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

God never tells me anything.
I'm always the last to know.

Awww, very sad.

 

[BarneyFife]

Your welcome, and please consider humility isn’t thinking meanly of yourself, humility is not thinking of yourself at all.

Yes, I'm aware of the old saying that goes something like: "If taking credit for everything is selfish then certainly taking the blame for everything is self-centered." Even just now I was thinking of saying, somewhat in jest, "I've not quite reached the elevated status of "work in progress" yet.

 

[historyb]

I think this article says it best for me:

The question here is what does it mean to know that you have eternal life? Do we have to know that there is nothing we could possibly do to lose our salvation in order to know that we have eternal life?

This sort of thinking is something that has emerged from a strange Protestant mix of Arminianism and Calvinism. Calvinism teaches that God has decreed before all eternity who will be saved and who will be damned, and so obviously, if you are among the elect, there is nothing you could possibly do to become unelected. But a Calvinist would say that those who are elect will show the fruits of their election at some point before they die, and begin to live like Christians. Arminians, on the other hand deny that God determines who will be saved, and that the offer of salvation is open to everyone, and that furthermore, one can fall away from God and lose their salvation. Most Baptists are partially Calvinistic and partially Arminian—they believe that salvation is open to all, but that once who are saved, you cannot lose your salvation. You could “steal a horse and ride it into heaven.” And for those who have bought into this perspective, the idea of eternal security is something they believe in very strongly. And in fact, they seem to have a hard time understanding how anyone could have any confidence in their salvation if they did not have the absolute assurance that they could not possibly lose their salvation.

I have known my wife since I was 17, and we have been married for more than 27 years. I feel very secure in our relationship, but I am quite certain that there are things I could do to destroy that relationship. I am not in fear of that happening, however, because I have no intention of doing any of those things. So I know that my wife loves me, but I also respect her, and make sure that I treat her with love and respect so as to maintain that relationship. Our relationship with God is similar. We know God loves us, but we also know that if we turn our back on Him, we will not remain in a right relationship with Him. All we need to do, however, is to not do that.

Fr. John Whiteford. Assurance of Salvation

and another here:

Simply put, our teaching on salvation cannot be reduced to a set of Scriptural or Patristic quotes that we just happen to read in a certain way. Our teaching on salvation can be traced back to the early Apostolic Church through the uninterrupted continuity of worship and practice, of the life of the Church. In other words, our doctrine of salvation is embodied by the life that the Church has lived since the times of Christ and the Apostles.

This doctrine is multi-dimensional, and involves dogmatic, historical, Scriptural, ecclesiological, and other aspects. Likewise, the criticism of non-Orthodox doctrines of personal salvation can also be offered from multiple points of view. The present work is an apologetical exercise aimed at outlining this logic, inter-connectedness, and complexity to a non-Orthodox Christian believer.

As was already mentioned, the idea here is to present the Orthodox teaching on personal salvation as something that can be mostly drawn directly from the abundant Scriptural, Apostolic, and Patristic evidence and stand by itself, as opposed to the more common approach of being drawn out of the opposition to the Roman Catholic/Protestant teaching (and “beating Catholics with Protestant arguments, and Protestants with Catholic arguments”).

Deacon Victor E. Klimenko, Ph.D. The Orthodox Teaching on Personal Salvation

While I am not Orthodox these articles pretty much hit the nail on the head

 

[ChristisGod]

I can trace Eternal Security all the way back to Scripture where it originates from.

Jesus said the following in John 10:28-29

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Enoch111]

Do we have to know that there is nothing we could possibly do to lose our salvation in order to know that we have eternal life?

That is reversing everything and trying to find a loophole in salvation. People who are saved are not thinking about losing their salvation but WORKING OUT THEIR SALVATION with fear an trembling.

Before anyone is saved they must come to a realization of where they stand before God. That their condition is hopeless without Christ, that they are on their way to Hell, and without having their sins been forgiven they will be eternally lost. Hence repentance for the remission of sins in the next thing that happens. Only then do they see that if they believe on Christ and receive Him as Lord and Savior, they will receive the gift of eternal life. According to His Word.

So then why would someone turn around and want to lose what he has received from God?

 

[bbyrd009]

And I have come to believe that my salvation is much more for Jesus's sake than my own.

huh?

What undergirds your assurance of redemption?

what i hear is not at odds with what i do, for the most part, the feedback iow, but what does "redemption" mean in this context if you would?

 

[Taken]

For The 9999th Time, OSAS (Albeit Testimony Time)
OP^

Heb 7:
[22] By so much was Jesus made a SURETY of a better testament.

Heb10:
[10] By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ ONCE for all.

Rom 10:
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Heb 10:
[14] For by ONE offering he hath perfect-ED forever Them that "are" sanctified.

Once a man IS Saved, it is Forever.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[marksman]

I was raised in the Southern Baptist Convention tradition. OSAS was emphasized greatly. My father recently told me that he likes to listen to feel-good sermons nowadays (à la Joel Osteen) because when he was young he heard so many sermons that seemed calculated to make him doubt his own salvation. I never got that impression when I was a youth, but later on, when I got very serious about consecration to God, the nagging sense I developed was that my salvation depended upon my sincerity at some earlier time and I worried about the spaces of time between my seemingly inevitable rededications. Finally, I got so tired of this that I began to search for a new model of assurance. It took over 20 years for me to find it and it is nothing like what I believed previously. I came to look upon eternal security as grievously hollow and impractical. I could never discern the fine line between mere backsliding and the realization that I had never been "saved" to begin with. And I have come to believe that my salvation is much more for Jesus's sake than my own. I parted ways with SBC orthodoxy in 1990. As hard as it may be for some to believe, this is more of a testimony than a provocation to debate. But friendly discussion about the topic of testimony of assurance is encouraged. And I myself have more to say about this.

What undergirds your assurance of redemption?

It has to be really bad to lose your salvation. It is explained in this way....

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those once having been enlightened, and having tasted of the heavenly gift, and becoming sharers of the Holy Spirit, and tasting the good Word of God, and the works of power of a coming age, and having fallen away, it is impossible for them again to renew to repentance, crucifying again for themselves the Son of God, and putting Him to open shame.

Falling away means to apostatize. So it is not a case of if you were saved as this section of the bible makes it clear you were but you have decided to turn your back on it and reject the salvation you had. As people have said, I no longer believe that Jesus is the Christ, the son of God.

I am not sure that the idea of rededication is the right one. I see it more as a case of not being satisfied with how you are and wanting God to take you deeper into your walk with him. The idea of rededications was thought up to boost numbers responding at crusades if you are not getting the conversions.

My assurance of redemption is based on knowing him. Not knowing about him which I do as I am an avid studier of the Bible but in so doing I want to know the God of the bible so I dig deep to unearth the treasures that are there to be had. I go beyond what the bible is saying to what is God saying in the bible.

Like Paul, I want to know him (Phil 3 v 10) not about him. Anytime I have doubts I go back to the day I was saved when I knew without a shadow of doubt I was born again because as I prayed the Holy Spirit fell on me sealing the deal.

 

[BarneyFife]

That is reversing everything and trying to find a loophole in salvation. People who are saved are not thinking about losing their salvation but WORKING OUT THEIR SALVATION with fear an trembling.

Before anyone is saved they must come to a realization of where they stand before God. That their condition is hopeless without Christ, that they are on their way to Hell, and without having their sins been forgiven they will be eternally lost. Hence repentance for the remission of sins in the next thing that happens. Only then do they see that if they believe on Christ and receive Him as Lord and Savior, they will receive the gift of eternal life. According to His Word.

So then why would someone turn around and want to lose what he has received from God?

Would that everyone had the maturity and steely resolve of an @Enoch111 when they first came to the foot of the cross.

 

[BarneyFife]

huh?

He is worthy of all glory. Me, not so much (at all).

what i hear is not at odds with what i do, for the most part, the feedback iow, but what does "redemption" mean in this context if you would?

Salvation, atonement, etc. I just get tired of hearing myself use the same old terms all the time. I know, it's ridiculous.

 

[BarneyFife]

My assurance of redemption is based on knowing him. Not knowing about him which I do as I am an avid studier of the Bible but in so doing I want to know the God of the bible so I dig deep to unearth the treasures that are there to be had. I go beyond what the bible is saying to what is God saying in the bible.

I like this.

Thank you for participating.

 

[BarneyFife]

For The 9999th Time, OSAS (Albeit Testimony Time)
OP^

Heb 7:
[22] By so much was Jesus made a SURETY of a better testament.

Heb10:
[10] By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ ONCE for all.

Rom 10:
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Heb 10:
[14] For by ONE offering he hath perfect-ED forever Them that "are" sanctified.

Once a man IS Saved, it is Forever.

Glory to God,
Taken

Thank you for participating.

 

[Taken]

It has to be really bad to lose your salvation. It is explained in this way....

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those once having been enlightened, and having tasted of the heavenly gift, and becoming sharers of the Holy Spirit, and tasting the good Word of God, and the works of power of a coming age, and having fallen away, it is impossible for them again to renew to repentance, crucifying again for themselves the Son of God, and putting Him to open shame.

Falling away means to apostatize. So it is not a case of if you were saved as this section of the bible makes it clear you were but you have decided to turn your back on it and reject the salvation you had. As people have said, I no longer believe that Jesus is the Christ, the son of God.

Disagree.

Hearing the Word of God...
IS: being Enlightened.
Men ARE Blessed...
FOR: Hearing the Word of God...

There IS a time for all things.
A person Never having Heard the Word of God...doesn't sit in a church, hear a select one hour Sermon the Pastor has selected...jump up and Vow a Commitment of Heartful Belief.

Do you not recognize A Commitment to the Lord IS from the Heart and Forever?

Who makes a Life long Commitment to something they know nothing about?

The Disciples followed Jesus around Daily for long hours, for Three years, Hearing...and BTW, questioning, doubting, denying...during their "Learning" period.

None of them met Jesus, and within a week of Hearing the Word of God...made a Vow of Commitment to Him.

Yet...every day as they heard...
They were being Enlightened!
They were TASTING the Blessings of the Holy Spirit...who IS Light.

They are our Examples:
Three Years, Long hours of Hearing...
Before they WERE Prepared to Make A Forever and Assured Heartful and Lifeling Commitment to the Lord.

And not to forget Judas...
He heard, he TASTED The Enlightenment of The Lords Word. He was Blessed by the Holy Spirit....BUT he stopped Listening to the Word of God...and instead Listened to the Temptation of $$$...and Allowed His Carnal Mind to consider and agree to the Tempting Offer of $$$.
He was Not Saved...He fell from Faith.

And BTW- the Blessing a man being Enlightened receives...IS measures of Faith.

The Bible makes it Clear...TASTING Enlightenment...is "Learning About" the Lord, being Prepared to Commit to Him...
Not "making a commitment".

Ponder...

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[quietthinker]

I can trace Eternal Security all the way back to Scripture where it originates from.

Jesus said the following in John 10:28-29

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand.

hope this helps !!!

This scripture, ie John 10:28-29 sustained me and still does in the earlier years of my journey with Jesus. It was so reassuring ' no one will snatch them out of my hand' repeated.....even 'out of my Fathers hand'

With all the conflicting inner and outer voices, this was my rock. I knew myself to be frail.....I knew myself to have 'insufficient' faith......I knew I did not know enough or clearly enough but I also knew I was in Jesus' hand.....I had no doubts about that......soooo, when I read, 'no one will snatch them out of my hand' a burden lightened considerably....it gave me permission to rest and not be anxious. Today it motivates me as a citizen of God's Kingdom to live worthy of that.

 

[charity]

Hi there ,@BarneyFife ,

In the wee small hours of this morning, I thought about this thread, and the need to encourage and strengthen other believers, rather than condemn, and the words of an old hymn came to mind:-

Tell me the old, old story,
Of unseen things above,
Of Jesus and His glory,
Of Jesus and His love;
Tell me the story simply,
As to a little child,
For I am weak and weary,
And helpless and defiled.

Tell me the old, old story,
Tell me the old, old story,
Tell me the old, old story,
Of Jesus and His love.

Tell me the story slowly,
That I may take it in--
That wonderful redemption,
God's remedy for sin;
Tell me the story often,
For I forget so soon,
The "early dew" of morning
Has passed away at noon.

Tell me the story softly,
With earnest tones and grave;
Remember I'm the sinner
Whom Jesus came to save;
Tell me the story always,
If you would really be,
In any time of trouble,
A comforter to me.

Tell me the same old story,
When you have cause to fear
That this world's empty glory
Is costing me too dear;
And when the Lord's bright glory
Is dawning on my soul,
Tell me the old, old story:
"Christ Jesus makes thee whole."

* Looking unto Jesus, our risen and glorified, Saviour, Lord and Head is the answer to our need, not introspection or self-examination.

Thank you
With love in Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[CadyandZoe]

'Study to shew thyself approved unto God,
a workman that needeth not to be ashamed,
rightly dividing the word of truth.'
( 2 Timothy 2:15 )

Hello @BarnyFife,

I was born in a house on a Welsh hilltop, to a believing Mother, and a Father who had lost three children and who could not forgive God for their loss. I have only ever known love. God brought me to a knowledge of my need of a Saviour when I was twelve years old, and the journey began for me then, but I know by God's reckoning it began before the foundation of the world.

I had Evangelical influences until in my early thirties when I was brought under the influence of the principle of 2 Timothy 2:15, and the need to rightly divide the word of truth, and the Berean principle also of Acts 17:11:-

'These were more noble than those in Thessalonica,
in that they received the word with all readiness of mind,
and searched the scriptures daily,
whether those things were so.'

These principles freed me from the doctrinal influences of man, and placed my feet solidly on the word of God, in Christ Jesus my Lord. For I am His workmanship. He is the Author of my faith, and He will be it's Finisher. I, like Him, look to the hope laid before me, for that is what will enable me to endure to the end, and to remain faithful.

This is a testimony to His working, and not to me personally: for I am merely a sinner saved by grace.

Praise His Holy Name!

Thank you for your sharing, Barney.
With love in Christ Jesus
Chris

I am coming to the realization that salvation isn't granted in the perfect tense, but in the present tense. We aren't saved as much as we are being saved. The idea that "He is the Author and the Finisher" of our faith strongly suggests a process, which takes place over time. And it also strongly implies that he, not I, is the worker. I am the workmanship, the one being created.

Blessings

 

[bbyrd009]

Salvation, atonement, etc. I just get tired of hearing myself use the same old terms all the time. I know, it's ridiculous.

yeh lol, not sure why we cant be honest there and just say "me, getting to heaven after i have died?"