Forgiveness is to those who keep the commandments of the Lord.

[stunnedbygrace]

So you think Christ promotes sin? You think Christ embraces sin? Do you think He started a religion of sin and sin some more and be rewarded with Heaven? That Heaven is full of evildoers? The Good News of the Gospel is that you can be saved that is for sure. But it is still simple, Christian are to be good people. Christ and Apostles did not set the example of sin and sin some more. If you want to go to Heaven, be good.

You really cant hear me. I think you are trying.

Think of grace as power. Now if you trust God so radically that you stop worrying about the things the world worries about, that trust (faith) pleases God.
He comes running to help when He sees trust.

What is written in the verse is clear: if you have hatred in your heart towards any brother, you do not have eternal life abiding in you.



I know that I had a huge problem with anger before I came to Christ.

But when I became born again, the love, joy, and peace of the Holy Spirit flooded in and replaced that anger. It couldn't exist in my heart any more.



1Jo 3:15, Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

Moses...David...Paul...most assuredly repented and were not murderers by the time that they got to the end of their lives.

Consider that Jesus spoke of the possibility of dying in your sins (John 8:21, John 8:24)...

He is able and willing to cleanse you from all sin (1 John 1:7) if you will turn from them.



Those who have been cleansed on the inside of the cup and platter. It is written,

1Jo 3:15, Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.



I normally deal with anger like that by giving it over to God. He has said, "Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord".

If a believer does something to hurt me, I thank the Lord that He scourges every son whom He receives (Hebrews 12:6). And if an unbeliever hurts me, I normally pray that He will receive them as a son...I thereby kill two birds with one stone...I have my justice from the Lord and the person also will very likely be redeemed.

But I will say again that when the love, joy, and peace of the Lord flooded into my heart, anger no longer had any ability to reside in my heart.

Thanks for sharing that. I have to assume and try to accept, based on what you say happened with you, that some are more perfected the moment they meet Him and that they don’t have the struggle and growing of their faith. I do know, through my heartfelt conversations with others, that it does not appear to be the norm though, and instead, they are more like the man who said, Lord, I DO believe You and trust You, help my areas of unbelief!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I reject this concept...they use to call it mudding the water....so everything is grey areas so all amount of sin is forgiven.

I don’t know that speaking together any more will help anyone, including ourselves, since God says to have anger in your heart is to have already murdered and when you see it you say, I reject that concept.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

You are trying to level everyone else on the playing field as sinners. Why? To justify doing something that you know is a sin? To make yourself feel better about not being able to stop...sinning. If so you need to PM me so we can get this straight.

No. I am here for one reason and it is to try to help those struggling as I did for so long to build up their trust since I now know what mercies He will give them if they keep insisting on trust over worry. I want them to be encouraged and to hear that their struggle is a good one and that they won’t have to live the rest of their life in the misery of being kicked around by their angers and resentments.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

I feel that there is a different gospel being pushed on this thread, "Salvation by works". They are also in denial that a Christian still sins. It is not sin unto death. We aren't slaves to sin anymore, don't practice It, but still occasionally fall into sin. If a person cannot be honest with themselves, look at the things they still do wrong, they will not grow.
"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." 1 John 1:8
"By their fruit you will know them."
The fruit of the Spirit is the produce of a born again Christian. But this fruit cannot come first.
We are saved, the seed was planted in fertile soil, we are born of God, sealed - then we grow fruit.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I feel that there is a different gospel being pushed on this thread, "Salvation by works". They are also in denial that a Christian still sins. It is not sin unto death. We aren't slaves to sin anymore, don't practice It, but still occasionally fall into sin. If a person cannot be honest without themselves, look at the things they still do wrong, they will not grow.
"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." 1 John 1:8
"By their fruit you will know them."
The fruit of the Spirit is the produce of a born again Christian. But this fruit cannot come first.
We are saved, the seed was pla tes in fertile soil, we are born of God, sealed - then we grow fruit.

Yeah, I don’t know if there’s any way to help it. It becomes such a huge dang mess, just like when the Pharisees were running the show and greatly concerned with perfecting themselves and everyone else. When you try to perfect yourself then hold yourself up as the shining example and everyone else as the problem, you can’t even smell how odious you are. And most of the time, you haven’t even changed inwardly even one inch but somehow, you’re convinced you did even though you remain the same...

You see it played out on the politics stage too. That’s how you can see it’s worldly, even though it claims to be religious.

Prayer is the only way and I’m not a prayer wizard at all. My prayers are usually just a lot of sighing and then like...a few words, like literally maybe four or five! And don’t ever ask me to pray for you because you might ask me to pray you get a job and my prayer (after all the sighing) might be something like...Lord, grow that mans trust or...something else quite other than what you asked me to pray!

I’ve been asked before to pray for healing and recovery for someone and I don’t dare write my prayer online because what comes out (after the sighing) might be more like...Lord, if it’s his time, take him quickly and don’t let him suffer any more. And that would make people mad.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

When you try to perfect yourself then hold yourself up as the shining example and everyone else as the problem, you can’t even smell how odious you are. And most of the time, you haven’t even changed inwardly even one inch but somehow, you’re convinced you did even though you remain the same...


The guy doesn’t trust Jesus nor the Gospel to Save him —- he’s gonna do it Himself with his magnificent “ self- control”.....Paul warned about ” Will-Worship” and “ Will- Power is Grailhunter’s “ god”........

He admires the way that he is changing the “ outside of the Cup”.....and make no mistake— God “ does” want us to be “ good”, but any “ goodness” That Counts with God is a result of the TRANSFORMING of the “ inside of the cup”.....

Any man can change—- “ turn over a New Leaf” and the like and that is better than nothing, but Even though a man can change his outside behavior and impress the local “ Fruit inspectors” , only God can change the “ INSIDE of the Cup”, and that takes TRUST. Trust is another word for Faith and if you don’t exchange your “ WILL” worship to “ Christ” Worship.....you are in Serious Jeopardy.....

 

[stunnedbygrace]

That is very good BB.
You have made me very glad this morning, to the point of tears even!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

That is very good BB.

Jesus said, the outside can look good and clean but the inside be putrid, but the reverse is not possible because if the inside is clean, the outside just will be as well.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Yeah, I don’t know if there’s any way to help it. It becomes such a huge dang mess, just like when the Pharisees were running the show and greacerned with perfecting themselves and everyone else. When you try to perfect yourself then hold yourself up as the shining example and everyone else as the problem, you can’t even smell how odious you are. And most of the time, you haven’t even changed inwardly even one inch but somehow, you’re convinced you did even though you remain the same...

You see it played out on the politics stage too. That’s how you can see it’s worldly, even though it claims to be religious.

Prayer is the only way and I’m not a prayer wizard at all. My prayers are usually just a lot of sighing and then like...a few words, like literally maybe four or five! And don’t ever ask me to pray for you because you might ask me to pray you get a job and my prayer (after all the sighing) might be something like...Lord, grow that mans trust or...something else quite other than what you asked me to pray!

I’ve been asked before to pray for healing and recovery for someone and I don’t dare write my prayer online because what comes out (after the sighing) might be more like...Lord, if it’s his time, take him quickly and don’t let him suffer any more. And that would make people mad.

I prayed for my mom to go recently. She was in pain, bed-ridden, 88 years old and it was time. An hour or two later she passed. I am happy she is with the Lord.
I understand the confusion about 1 John 3:9, I stumbled on that one for awhile when I was an infant Christian. What the scripture is saying is that we do not continue practicing sin, which would be willfully rebelling against God. This would mean that there has not really been a change of heart or maybe just a shallow belief where you are not willing to examine yourself, look at your own sins and deal with them. A more amplified version of that scripture is needed.
"No one who is born of God [deliberately, knowingly, and habitually] practices sin, because God’s seed [His principle of life, the essence of His righteous character] remains [permanently] in him [who is born again--who is reborn from above--spiritually transformed, renewed, and set apart for His purpose]; and he [who is born again] cannot habitually [live a life characterized by] sin, because he is born of God and longs to please Him." 1 Cor. 3:9

 

[Grailhunter]

You really cant hear me. I think you are trying.

Think of grace as power. Now if you trust God so radically that you stop worrying about the things the world worries about, that trust (faith) pleases God.
He comes running to help when He sees trust.

I fully understand this, the various threads that cover this topic have over 6000 posts, if you went deeper probably over 10,000. There have been several people try to save you guys from hell...but as the old English use to say, you have been obdurate.

But you and others have summed up your beliefs in this manner but you do not finish the statement because your intent is to deceive. Yes you believe...Now if you trust God so radically that you stop worrying about the things the world worries about, that trust (faith) pleases God and you can do any amount of evil and you will be rewarded with heaven.

So at this point, my concern is not for you, but the innocence that read the evil you guys believe.
So at this point I will just be telling you to repent and warning the people on the forum and the guests about the evil you and other try to spread.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I never would have thought it possible if I did not see it with my own eyes that someone saying trust God and ask Him for what you see you lack, in a Christian forum, would be said to be speaking evil. I prayed for you that God heal your blindness and I know He heard me.

 

[Grailhunter]

******A warning to guests and new Christians******
The people that are pushing the OSAS doctrine on this thread are not inline with Christian morals, ethics, or values.
It is a false teaching that can lead to loss of salvation and a judgment to hell. Danger is here in this thread. BEWARE!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

What a theatrical production!

I'm not OSAS. I believe we can be cut off if we do not continue in trust and grow in trust. But I also leave God to be the judge, of both myself and others who trust. He knows if He has seen an increase on His investment and sees an increase from the seed of trust He planted.

 

[Truth]

The righteousness that Zacharias and Elizabeth had was the righteousness of the law.

Paul the apostle had this same righteousness prior to being redeemed (Philippians 3:6)...

He counted it as dung in order that he might be able to grab hold of the righteousness which is of God by faith (Philippians 3:8-9).



You can teach that all you like; I know that it is biblical (Romans 5:20).

What is also biblical is the logic that Paul gives in response to that particular truth...

"Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? God forbid..." (Romans 6:1)



I'm not in disagreement with this.

I will say that in order to be in a place in your life where you can sin and never be damned for it, you must have a heart attitude that you hate sin...you must have come to a place in your life where you have repented from walking in the direction of sin.



You have completely misunderstood me and my position on the nature of salvation.

I preach the law as a schoolmaster to lead men to Christ. Because the law shows everyone that they are not worthy.

However, when a man is born again, the love of the Lord is shed abroad in his heart (Romans 5:5)...and the righteousness of the law begins to be fulfilled in him (Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 8:4).



Since I turned to God a long time ago...and subsequently turned away from sin, I must be alright...

The fact that I turned away from sin later did not take away from me the fact that I had earlier turned to God...

And, the fact that I now preach that a man must turn away from sin does not take away from me the fact that I earlier turned to God.

But really, anyone who turns to God also turns away from sin....for God is holy...and therefore to turn to Him is to turn to holiness...and thus away from unholiness / sin.



I recommend it highly also...and I also recommend that in saying those words, you have the attitude towards sin that the tax collector had...it is only obvious that the tax collector at that point was discontented with a lifestyle of sinning.

Even as Romans 7:14-25 has Paul using the literary tactic of IDENTIFICATION...he identifies himself with carnal living (1 Corinthians 9:22 (kjv)) in order to define carnality...

While Paul himself is not carnal in the writing of that portion of the epistle...for he is penning holy scripture and therefore he must be a holy man of God (2 Peter 1:21 (kjv)) in the writing of it.

But I point out that Paul writes Romans 7:24 to show the carnal person a major aspect of the solution to their carnality...that they become discontented with their sinful behaviour.

The point is that Zacharias & Elizabeth were able to keep the Law, Blameless! It is not Imposible! Let us not forget that Our Savior also Kept the Law, Blameless! if not then He can not be the Savior. Blameless - Sinless ?
without the Law you would be clueless to what sin is.
What is the Biblical Definition of Sin?
Biblical not Doctrinal!

 

[BloodBought 1953]

******A warning to guests and new Christians******
The people that are pushing the OSAS doctrine on this thread are not inline with Christian morals, ethics, or values.
It is a false teaching that can lead to loss of salvation and a judgment to hell. Danger is here in this thread. BEWARE!

Pffffttttt.....

 

[TheslightestID]

Those who are in Christ do not sin. If they make a habit of sinning, the truth is not in them.

True, so, in turn, those who begin to sin, and make a habit of sinning, after they have found salvation, will lose that salvation. Thanks for helping to make the point.

Excerpting, cherry picking, a scripture in an effort to renounce God's grace is not an example of respect not proper study of the words of The Word.

Cherry picking? What makes the scripture you quote not cherry picked, and mine cherry picked? attempting to make perfectly sound scripture untrue with your out of place "cherry picked" claim just isn't going to work for posters who are paying attention. Only those who want to believe the master of confusion will be confused by your words, those with the holy spirit who want the truth will find it/be able to see it, even if the truth means no easy way salvation, and those who want easy, will follow the lie.

And nice touch BTW, but there was nothing in my comment that "renounced Gods grace", and anyone paying attention will see you made that up completely to fool those who want to be fooled. Such tricks of Satan will have no affect on those who seek the truth, however they will seem wise to those who want to believe lies.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

******A warning to guests and new Christians******
The people that are pushing the OSAS doctrine on this thread are not inline with Christian morals, ethics, or values.
It is a false teaching that can lead to loss of salvation and a judgment to hell. Danger is here in this thread. BEWARE!

Notice to Mr.Holy Spirit Jr—- Speaking LOUDER does not make you “ RIGHTER”

The ignorance on display here is no more than your opinion .....opinions don’t count for much around here .... I hate to Bust your Bubble, but if you participate in these Forums you need to have “ Chapter and Verse”

You are entitled to your opinion ....and I will defend to the end your “ right to be wrong” , but just realize that your opinion is worth exactly what we pay for it —- NOTHING.

 

[Grailhunter]

What a theatrical production!

I'm not OSAS. I believe we can be cut off if we do not continue in trust and grow in trust. But I also leave God to be the judge, of both myself and others who trust. He knows if He has seen an increase on His investment and sees an increase from the seed of trust He planted.

You said
That is very good BB.
You have made me very glad this morning, to the point of tears even!
Sorry, just does not add up. Look who you are standing with. As they say, birds of a feather, flock together.

Notice to Mr.Holy Spirit Jr—- Speaking LOUDER does not make you “ RIGHTER”

The ignorance on display here is no more than your opinion .....opinions don’t count for much around here .... I hate to Bust your Bubble, but if you participate in these Forums you need to have “ Chapter and Verse”

You are entitled to your opinion ....and I will defend to the end your “ right to be wrong” , but just realize that your opinion is worth exactly what we pay for it —- NOTHING.

Repent of your evilness. Leave the innocent alone. Do not pile more hot coals on top of your head.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

That is very good BB.
You have made me very glad this morning, to the point of tears even!

Thank you so much for your kindness.....it’s always nice to hear from uncommon people that “ Get It”

As one “ Meat Partaker” to another.....May I recommend a site or two comprised of others that are able to get off Of the Milk Bottle ....Check out “ escape to reality” or “ Jesus without religion” or go to You Tube and check out “ Renee Roland”......

God has blessed you immensely ....may He continue to do so!

 

[amigo de christo]

The point is that Zacharias & Elizabeth were able to keep the Law, Blameless! It is not Imposible! Let us not forget that Our Savior also Kept the Law, Blameless! if not then He can not be the Savior. Blameless - Sinless ?
without the Law you would be clueless to what sin is.
What is the Biblical Definition of Sin?
Biblical not Doctrinal!

But not without sin . Being blameless by the law , meant they also praticed all things required for sin .
One can be blameless according to the law. Simply means if one sins they do the necessary sacrifices to cover that sin .
But it does not mean they never sinned . Folks get that one messed up and often .
Specially our RCC friends who think mary never once sinned .