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Brakelite

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1.) From Adam to the Moses = No Law, No Commandments.
I'm not interested in "dispensations". Especially when your second line contradicts scripture...
KJV Genesis 26:3-5
3 Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father;
4 and I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed:
5 because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
 
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quietthinker

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Are you born again?

Thats a very specific >event.

Its something that God caused, and you can't ever change.
The only reason you will go to heaven, is because you are born again.
The only reason you will go to hell, is if you are not.

Jesus said "you MUST be born again", or you cannot SEE or enter into the Kingdom of God"

Being born again is not a process.
Discipelship is the process, so, dont confuse being born gain, or being eternally secure, with learning how to operate within, your Christianity, which is discipleship.
Most Christians confuse Salvation, which is God caused and completed with discipleship, which is the daily lifestyle stuff you do = because you are already born again and have eternal life.

Salvation is not water baptism. Salvation is a SPIRITUAL BIRTH, that is to be "born again... and that is obviously not just getting your body wet in a pool or a tub or in a river or in a "baptismal" whatever.
Its you being transformed INTO a "New Creation", "In Christ" = by GOD's HOLY SPIRIT.
It's God Birthing you, into Himself......as "One with God and Christ".
You can't cause that, and that is why you have no power over it, once God completes it, in you.

You should be able to point to the exact moment when you came to the Cross, kneeled before Jesus in HEART FAITH, and your heart was CHANGED. = born again....by the Spirit of God into the Spirit of God....= "in Christ".
You are IN THERE< if you are born again.

This does not have to happen in a Church.
But it does have to HAPPEN, or you are not born again, and you are just religious and very affiliated with "Christian Stuff".
If you die like that.....you get this...>"depart from ME, i never KNEW YOU".

One of the specific evidences of this "conversion experience" is that you will SEE SIN.
You will notice the sinful.
In other words, what use to be fun and daily living........you suddenly SEE these as "sin" and "sinning"..
Suddenly your unbelieving mama is a sinner in your eyes.
Suddenly you recognize that some of your best friends are dirty sinning unbelieving fornicators, who are currently going to HELL.
And before, you never SAW THIS> about them..
Ahhhhhh....
See that CHANGE?
You can't cause those "new eyes" to exist....
Understand?
And that is the Holy Spirit in you, in operation... that has changed your conscience, renewed it, so that it became really sensitive to SIN....

Saint, the unbelievers, of which you use to be,....dont SEE sin....they just enjoy it as "life".
But the born again, SEE sin, we are sensitive to it, and it becomes what we avoid, naturally.
The sinner, naturally enjoys Sinning, and has no conscience regarding it at all and embraces it, chases it, and live in it.
The only time a sinner is sorry for their sin, is when they get caught and are in big big trouble., and that is not really being sorry for sinning, that is just being upset that they are in big trouble.

So, if you are born again, and you believe you can lose your salvation, its because you were taught this deception, or its because you have sinned after you were saved, and became condemned about this, and started trying to be good enough for God to accept.
Once you developed that mind set, you are fallen from Grace.

So, how do you get out of a self saving mental stronghold and into the rest and comfort of right believing?

1.) First you have to realize that you are trying to keep yourself saved, so that you can then realize how utterly impossible this is.......its impossible.
Saint, you can no more keep yourself saved then you could save yourself to begin with..
See, Salvation is all of God, provided as a Gift.
Salvation is not about demanding from you.....but rather its God giving to you.

The Law demands.
Grace supplies.

2.) Think of it like this..
Before you are saved....... you can live a good life, be a good person, do good works.........and can any of that save you?
Can you forgive your own sin, by your good works?
If you can, then why did Jesus have to die?

So, if you have become flipped, subverted in your faith by a deceiver....then you are trusting in those deeds to keep you saved, = that could not save you before you were saved.
See how backwards is your believing?
See how wrong it is????
Its upside down, Saint.
Its spiritual darkness, and many will be found on Forums and in Pulpits trying to keep you in it.

3.) And so..... to see all that ......is THE Light Switch.
And if you are a Legalist, a self saver, then when you can see this Light, you can begin to escape from a twisted faith that has left real faith in Christ.

Let say you are a "enduring to the end" deceived.
So, isn't your enduring, to try to do good deeds and try to be good, and try to live holy?
And if you did all that, if you "present your body a living sacrifice for God".... and are not born again, would it save you?
NOPE. !!
SEE, you have left faith in Christ, and are trying to "endure to the end", by doing self effort deeds, that can't save you to begin with, that you now think and believe you have to do, to Stay Saved.
So, see how backwards and Jesus rejecting that is ????......Its actually Cross rejection to think like that...to believe like that, and to teach that deception.
That is a deceptive STRONGHOLD in your mind that has to be taken down, which means...it has to be replaced by RIGHT BELIEVING.

Do you see?

4.) So, all wrong believing is related to trying to make yourself right with God, or keep yourself right with God.......and that is...>
>= SELF-RIGHTEOUSNESS.
And all who teach this are Cross denying legalists...as that teaching and that believing opposes GOD's Righteousness that is GIVEN TO YOU as "the Gift of Righteousness" that is all God accepts, to accept you and keep you.
See, God only Accepts His own Righteousness.
He does not accept yours, that is your self effort, because you have no righteousness of yourself.
All you ever had was a life of SIN that you presented to God that He dealt with, using The Blood of Jesus.

Salvation is God coming here, to give you His Righteousness, so that He can accept you and keep you.
God creating and delivering this "Gift of Righteousness" is found In the Blood of Jesus that is provided by The CROSS and the DEATH and the Resurrection, of God, who is Jesus THE Christ.

5.) So, when you think that YOU can LOSE your Salvation, its because you dont BELIEVE that JESUS is your Salvation, or even understand this yet.
You have stopped BELIEVING THIS, or you never understood it to begin with.....and are now trying to be YOUR OWN Savior, by "enduring" or " commandment keeping".......etc.
So, STOP doing that.
Stop thinking that way.
Stop listening to deceivers who have trapped you inside a broken Cross rejecting backwards faith.
SEE YOURSELF in that situation, and REPENT if you are trying to keep yourself saved.
(Repent) = IS to change your mind = away from what is deception.
And in this case , change it BACK to Right Believing.
Change your mind back to : "Jesus who saved me KEEPS ME SAVED".
Change your mind back to : Philippians 1:6. "God who Himself began salvation in all the born again, will HIMSELF be FAITHFUL to complete it".

And if you have never seen this, then believe it right now, and go to Hebrews 13:9 and live in that GRACE verse for the rest of your life.
That is a MUST DO.
When your mother gave birth to you, were you aware of it?......chances are you became aware of being born some time later...even years. There is no reason why this awareness should not also apply to a second birth (born again)

Some folk have dramatic experiences when it comes to a change in direction and can pin point a specific time. Paul's conversion on the road to Damascus comes to mind. Other folk raised in an environment with the message of the Gospel present cannot put a finger on an exact time. For them it has been a gradual dawning of awareness of God's love for them.

It matters not whether one is aware or unaware of the time when one's heart was changed. What matters is that it was changed.
 

Behold

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5 because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

"The LAW came, (was given) by MOSES".... "Grace and TRUTH came by JESUS">.... John 1:17
Read your NEW Testament, become a disciple of Pauline Theology....... as when you live in the OT in the "time of the gentiles", , you end up in a theological and spiritual mess.

Go to this verse, and live in it for the rest of your life.

Hebrews 13:9
 
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Behold

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When your mother gave birth to you, were you aware of it?......chances are you became aware of being born some time later...even years. There is no reason why this awareness should not also apply to a second birth (born again)
Some folk have dramatic experiences when it comes to a change in direction and can pin point a specific time. Paul's conversion on the road to Damascus comes to mind. Other folk raised in an environment with the message of the Gospel present cannot put a finger on an exact time. For them it has been a gradual dawning of awareness of God's love for them.
It matters not whether one is aware or unaware of the time when one's heart was changed. What matters is that it was changed.

Being born again ,is not a lifelong process.
Its a one time event, that happens instantly.
Did you notice that you were not "birthed" by your mama over a 28 yr time frame?
And neither is your "New birth" something that gradually occurs.

It is true that some people have a slow process of coming to that place of repentance toward God, through faith in Christ, that you are describing, but that is not the born again part.
Being born again is instantly, and its permanent.
 

justbyfaith

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Being born of God is something that happens consistently to the believer after first faith; where he continues in faith and lives by faith.

Rom 8:14, For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Rom 1:17, For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Gal 3:1, O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
Gal 3:2, This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Gal 3:3, Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?


Col 2:6, As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
 

Brakelite

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"The LAW came, (was given) by MOSES".... "Grace and TRUTH came by JESUS">.... John 1:17
Read your NEW Testament, become a disciple of Pauline Theology....... as when you live in the OT in the "time of the gentiles", , you end up in a theological and spiritual mess.

Go to this verse, and live in it for the rest of your life.

Hebrews 13:9
I can imagine it. A stranger walks besides you on your way home and offers to give you a Bible study. You refuse because you are only a NT Christian.
The stranger them introduces Himself to your neighbor,
KJV Luke 24:27
27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
 

Wynona

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Obediance to God is a requirement to get to heaven.


Matthew 7:21

King James Version

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.


If everyone trying to obey is refusing to rest in the finished work of Christ, then what do you do with verses like these?


James 2:14

King James Version

14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?


James 2:20

King James Version

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?


John 14:15

King James Version

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.


John 14:21

King James Version

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.



Also, you can lose your salvation. Check out

Hebrews 6


Hebrews 6:4-6

King James Version

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,


5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,


6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.



Also


Romans 11:22

King James Version

22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.



Hebrews 4:11

King James Version

11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.


Anyone who is questioning about their salvation should look directly to what the Bible actually says. It's good to look at these things for yourself.
 
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quietthinker

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Being born again ,is not a lifelong process.
Its a one time event, that happens instantly.
Did you notice that you were not "birthed" by your mama over a 28 yr time frame?
And neither is your "New birth" something that gradually occurs.

It is true that some people have a slow process of coming to that place of repentance toward God, through faith in Christ, that you are describing, but that is not the born again part.
Being born again is instantly, and its permanent.
My post is talking about the awareness of it!
 

amigo de christo

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I am praying that there will be a revival that will put a stop to the kingdom of the beast for another 500+ years.

I suppose that time will tell.

If the kingdom of the beast does come, I believe the saints will be aware of it.
Its already here . THIS POPE is pushing it in fast upon the world , as are many leaders . Most are just too busy
getting caught up in what is leading all right to it .
 

Behold

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I can imagine it. A stranger walks besides you on your way home and offers to give you a Bible study. You refuse because you are only a NT Christian.
The stranger them introduces Himself to your neighbor,
KJV Luke 24:27
27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Why wasted time with that?
Listen, Paul said "be a follower of me, as I follow Christ".
So, that is where you go to find out what you dont yet understand, Backlit.
And until you do, you'll keep pretending, which is just wasting your time.
 

Behold

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My post is talking about the awareness of it!

Being aware of How God always SEES US.......this eternal perspective that God has regarding all the born again, is the "right mind" we are supposed to exist within.
We are to see ourselves only and always, as God sees us, and when we do, we find God's Grace as our resting place, and in this place of rest, we are empowered to live the holy life.

Reader....Its when we do not recognize ourselves as God sees us, that you will find yourself in that revolving door of sinning, confessing, and repenting and you can't stop.
 
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justbyfaith

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How does God see us?

He might see us as the righteousness of Him in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:21).

Or, He may see us as having a heart that is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked (Jeremiah 17:9).

He doesn't see us through rose-colored glasses in this regard (Hebrews 4:13).
 

Cristo Rei

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What amuses me the most is the infallibility that so many people claim...
Such great pride people seem to have and so certain they seem to be about their views...

Who has seen life after death?
Who has been shown the gates of heaven and hell?
Who witnessed the creation of the earth?
Who knows the mysteries of the universe?
Who can claim to be omnipotent?

No one has infinite knowledge. In fact, our knowledge is finite and restricted by our feeble minds...
Our feeble minds love to indulge in self-congratulatory praise...
They are infected with the pride of Lucifer. We only manage to lift our egos up to a level where it doesn't belong...

Surely we can all agree that none of us are all-knowing, yet some people won't like this truth and will attack it in vain...
 
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justbyfaith

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We can know all things in our spirit (just not with our minds)...1 John 2:20.

What this means is that we will know that something is a lie when we hear it, if that thing be a lie.
 

Cristo Rei

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We can know all things in our spirit (just not with our minds)...1 John 2:20.

What this means is that we will know that something is a lie when we hear it, if that thing be a lie.


That's funny. Cos the people on the other side basically say the same thing.

So then, one or both of you are being misled
 

Brakelite

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Why wasted time with that?
Listen, Paul said "be a follower of me, as I follow Christ".
So, that is where you go to find out what you dont yet understand, Backlit.
And until you do, you'll keep pretending, which is just wasting your time.
And Paul told Timothy that ALL scripture is good for doctrine and instruction in righteousness.
You do realize that you just told Jesus that He wasted His time preaching from the OT to the disciples on the road to Emmaus.
 
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Behold

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Or, He may see us as having a heart that is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked (Jeremiah 17:9).

God will only see you as the righteousness of God in Christ, if you are born again.

What you are talking about is the motive or the mindset of a person.
That has nothing to do with being "in Christ".

At the Judgement seat of Christ, we'll be tested for motive and intent, but the reason we are allowed there, is because God always sees us as "in Christ".
To be THERE, in that situation, is to have the same righteousness as God or a person will not be found there.
Thats the requirement to exist as "One with God".