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Get out of wrong believing.

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by Behold, Jan 18, 2021.

  1. Behold

    Behold Well-Known Member

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    Are you born again?

    Thats a very specific >event.

    Its something that God caused, and you can't ever change.
    The only reason you will go to heaven, is because you are born again.
    The only reason you will go to hell, is if you are not.

    Jesus said "you MUST be born again", or you cannot SEE or enter into the Kingdom of God"

    Being born again is not a process.
    Discipelship is the process, so, dont confuse being born gain, or being eternally secure, with learning how to operate within, your Christianity, which is discipleship.
    Most Christians confuse Salvation, which is God caused and completed with discipleship, which is the daily lifestyle stuff you do = because you are already born again and have eternal life.

    Salvation is not water baptism. Salvation is a SPIRITUAL BIRTH, that is to be "born again... and that is obviously not just getting your body wet in a pool or a tub or in a river or in a "baptismal" whatever.
    Its you being transformed INTO a "New Creation", "In Christ" = by GOD's HOLY SPIRIT.
    It's God Birthing you, into Himself......as "One with God and Christ".
    You can't cause that, and that is why you have no power over it, once God completes it, in you.

    You should be able to point to the exact moment when you came to the Cross, kneeled before Jesus in HEART FAITH, and your heart was CHANGED. = born again....by the Spirit of God into the Spirit of God....= "in Christ".
    You are IN THERE< if you are born again.

    This does not have to happen in a Church.
    But it does have to HAPPEN, or you are not born again, and you are just religious and very affiliated with "Christian Stuff".
    If you die like that.....you get this...>"depart from ME, i never KNEW YOU".

    One of the specific evidences of this "conversion experience" is that you will SEE SIN.
    You will notice the sinful.
    In other words, what use to be fun and daily living........you suddenly SEE these as "sin" and "sinning"..
    Suddenly your unbelieving mama is a sinner in your eyes.
    Suddenly you recognize that some of your best friends are dirty sinning unbelieving fornicators, who are currently going to HELL.
    And before, you never SAW THIS> about them..
    Ahhhhhh....
    See that CHANGE?
    You can't cause those "new eyes" to exist....
    Understand?
    And that is the Holy Spirit in you, in operation... that has changed your conscience, renewed it, so that it became really sensitive to SIN....

    Saint, the unbelievers, of which you use to be,....dont SEE sin....they just enjoy it as "life".
    But the born again, SEE sin, we are sensitive to it, and it becomes what we avoid, naturally.
    The sinner, naturally enjoys Sinning, and has no conscience regarding it at all and embraces it, chases it, and live in it.
    The only time a sinner is sorry for their sin, is when they get caught and are in big big trouble., and that is not really being sorry for sinning, that is just being upset that they are in big trouble.

    So, if you are born again, and you believe you can lose your salvation, its because you were taught this deception, or its because you have sinned after you were saved, and became condemned about this, and started trying to be good enough for God to accept.
    Once you developed that mind set, you are fallen from Grace.

    So, how do you get out of a self saving mental stronghold and into the rest and comfort of right believing?

    1.) First you have to realize that you are trying to keep yourself saved, so that you can then realize how utterly impossible this is.......its impossible.
    Saint, you can no more keep yourself saved then you could save yourself to begin with..
    See, Salvation is all of God, provided as a Gift.
    Salvation is not about demanding from you.....but rather its God giving to you.

    The Law demands.
    Grace supplies.

    2.) Think of it like this..
    Before you are saved....... you can live a good life, be a good person, do good works.........and can any of that save you?
    Can you forgive your own sin, by your good works?
    If you can, then why did Jesus have to die?

    So, if you have become flipped, subverted in your faith by a deceiver....then you are trusting in those deeds to keep you saved, = that could not save you before you were saved.
    See how backwards is your believing?
    See how wrong it is????
    Its upside down, Saint.
    Its spiritual darkness, and many will be found on Forums and in Pulpits trying to keep you in it.

    3.) And so..... to see all that ......is THE Light Switch.
    And if you are a Legalist, a self saver, then when you can see this Light, you can begin to escape from a twisted faith that has left real faith in Christ.

    Let say you are a "enduring to the end" deceived.
    So, isn't your enduring, to try to do good deeds and try to be good, and try to live holy?
    And if you did all that, if you "present your body a living sacrifice for God".... and are not born again, would it save you?
    NOPE. !!
    SEE, you have left faith in Christ, and are trying to "endure to the end", by doing self effort deeds, that can't save you to begin with, that you now think and believe you have to do, to Stay Saved.
    So, see how backwards and Jesus rejecting that is ????......Its actually Cross rejection to think like that...to believe like that, and to teach that deception.
    That is a deceptive STRONGHOLD in your mind that has to be taken down, which means...it has to be replaced by RIGHT BELIEVING.

    Do you see?

    4.) So, all wrong believing is related to trying to make yourself right with God, or keep yourself right with God.......and that is...>
    >= SELF-RIGHTEOUSNESS.
    And all who teach this are Cross denying legalists...as that teaching and that believing opposes GOD's Righteousness that is GIVEN TO YOU as "the Gift of Righteousness" that is all God accepts, to accept you and keep you.
    See, God only Accepts His own Righteousness.
    He does not accept yours, that is your self effort, because you have no righteousness of yourself.
    All you ever had was a life of SIN that you presented to God that He dealt with, using The Blood of Jesus.

    Salvation is God coming here, to give you His Righteousness, so that He can accept you and keep you.
    God creating and delivering this "Gift of Righteousness" is found In the Blood of Jesus that is provided by The CROSS and the DEATH and the Resurrection, of God, who is Jesus THE Christ.

    5.) So, when you think that YOU can LOSE your Salvation, its because you dont BELIEVE that JESUS is your Salvation, or even understand this yet.
    You have stopped BELIEVING THIS, or you never understood it to begin with.....and are now trying to be YOUR OWN Savior, by "enduring" or " commandment keeping".......etc.
    So, STOP doing that.
    Stop thinking that way.
    Stop listening to deceivers who have trapped you inside a broken Cross rejecting backwards faith.
    SEE YOURSELF in that situation, and REPENT if you are trying to keep yourself saved.
    (Repent) = IS to change your mind = away from what is deception.
    And in this case , change it BACK to Right Believing.
    Change your mind back to : "Jesus who saved me KEEPS ME SAVED".
    Change your mind back to : Philippians 1:6. "God who Himself began salvation in all the born again, will HIMSELF be FAITHFUL to complete it".

    And if you have never seen this, then believe it right now, and go to Hebrews 13:9 and live in that GRACE verse for the rest of your life.
    That is a MUST DO.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2021
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  2. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    That's exactly where I've landed.

    :)

    What we all need to realize is that God created us to love us, and to make us into lovers like He is. And having redeemed us, what, do we think He's not going to do all that is in His heart to do?

    So much love!!
     
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  3. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    If anyone is born again, they are no longer a worker of iniquity.

    Mat 7:23, And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

    Mat 13:41, The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
    Mat 13:42, And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

    If anyone is a worker of iniquity when they pass on into the next life, they will be cast into the furnace of fire; Jesus will say unto them, Depart from me I never knew you.
     
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  4. Behold

    Behold Well-Known Member

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    The "worker of iniquity".... the idea here is....to live in sin because you have no other lifestyle or no other way to exist.
    This is the unbeliever, the non-born again..

    Notice the word "iniquity".......so, that is the word "sin", or= a sinner..

    So the context is.....a worker, or a lifestyle of a SINNER....... A sinner is not born again.

    A born again person, is not a sinner, they are a SAINT......they have left the realm of the natural and are born again into God's Spirit, and in Him, "in Christ"...= there is no iniquity found.
    See, when God looks at a child of God, He only sees His Righteousness that they have become as "the gift of Righteousness".
    God will never see you any other way, if you are born again.

    If you are not, then you are here ... John 3:36

    So, this is why when a Christian behaves badly, .. Paul says we are committing "works of the Flesh".

    Well, works of the flesh are SIN, if you are a sinner......and a sinner is defined as someone who is under the dominion of the law, which is defining their deeds, their carnal lifestyle as "sinner". = They are NOT Born again.

    This does not apply to someone who is born again, as all their SIN is on Jesus, who became their/ our sin and died.... which is full payment due US.

    Saint, the reason you will only meet God as your Father, is because Jesus's blood, death and resurrection, this Blood Atonement, has made you eternally connected to God's Spirit.
    This is : Born again.

    So, only an unbeliever can live in iniquity, as its only an unbeliever who can be defined by the law, as a SINNER.

    WE, the born again, can't be defined by the Law, as it has no power or dominion over us anymore..
    We are defined by "under GRACE".....and this dominion of Grace only defines the born again, as "in Christ", "justified by faith", having "The Gift of Righteousness".
    So, if you are born again, and are returned to your old carnal habits, then you are as Paul defines...."committing works of the flesh", and are categorized as a "backslider".., and probably your faith is stone cold, and dormant, and your discipleship is defined by James as "dead faith".
    See, an unbeliever can't be defined as backslidden, as they have never had the born again experience.
    But a believer can be defined as a backslider.
    And remember, "dead faith" is not related to being born again, as being born again has already been completed.
    So, "dead faith" has to do with walking the walk of discipleship, that is separate from Salvation that God has given you as "the Gift of Salvation" that is proven by the fact that you are born again.

    Saint, hear me now.....= being born again, is the only real proof of Salvation, as "fruit" can be faked.
    The Devil's ministers fake having spiritual fruit 24/7.
    They do it on Forums, they do it in Pulpits, and they do it as Preachers, Popes, Ministers, ect.
    You have to learn how to hear a deceiver, or you will be led into deception by them and they will ruin your faith, and have you trying to keep yourself saved.

    So what is the difference between a sinner sinning and a believer committing works of the flesh?
    Well, the sinner is going to hell.
    The born again Believer is not.
    That's the main difference.
    Another difference is, that God is going to deal with the wayward child of God, according to Hebrews 12:6, and this does not happen to an unbeliever.
    What happens to them, is that they "reap what they sow"....only.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2021
  5. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    So, you're saying that when the believer sins, he is not really sinning...

    I can see this as being true to a certain extent.

    However, there is also a sanctification aspect of Matthew 7:23 and Matthew 13:41-42...

    And it has to do with the fact that the born again believer is not practically a worker of iniquity.

    If someone is practically a worker of iniquity, chances are, they are not born of God.

    Therefore, the things that you are speaking of, @Behold, apply to the one who draws near to Christ and desires not to sin.

    If it is the desire of a man's heart to sin, I will say that he is under the law, and is not dead to the law, and is not delivered from the law.

    But if it is the desire of a man not to sin, the law does not condemn him; for he has been born again and justified through faith in the blood of Jesus.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2021
  6. Behold

    Behold Well-Known Member

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    Exactly.
    When we live in God's Grace we live in God's power.

    Also...

    Here is a scripture.. "to know the love of God (Christ) .. that you might be filled with the fullness of God...""""

    Now, what you normally hear a preacher say of this verse is.....>"see, to know how much God loves you"...

    But actually that is not the correct understanding..
    In fact, what you said is the correct understanding.....which is....>"to make us lovers like HE is"...

    See that?

    So, to know the love of God....Is to have God's Love as how YOU love.........to know it like THAT......is how you "know God's Love"..
    Its to be filled with God's very own love, and from this you give it out as God's love.

    God IS LOVE...... So, to be filled with the fullness of GOD....is to be filled with God LOVE, as that IS HIS Fullness, and from this LOVE comes all God's character traits and attributes........mercy, grace, hope, compassion, truth, life, light......on and on...
    Its OUT of God's LOVE that all the goodness of God flows OUT.

    Being filled with the love of God....is to know how it is, to Love as God loves.......and that is with mercy, grace, compassion,, as all of this is how God loves..

    So, for us to know God's Love, is certainly to understand that we are loved of God, but, to KNOW God's Love, is to love as God loves, thats the "fullness" ..... and that is accomplished by Letting God have us, totally, and this is explained by Paul as...>"Its not i who live but Christ who lives in me".
    And i'll paraphrase that......."Its is not I who LOVES but CHRIST WHO LOVES FROM INSIDE ME according to Gods' FULLNESS">.
    See that reader?....that is to "know" God's Love. Its to know how it is to LOVE as GOD loves..
     
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  7. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Amen!
     
  8. Behold

    Behold Well-Known Member

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    The believer is not committing sin, they are committing works of the flesh.
    These..

    """
    Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
    Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
    Envyings, murders, drunkenness, etc."""""""


    So how can ALL that be only a work of the flesh? ???????????
    Its because those works are defined as sin, IF the Law has the power to define you as a sinner.
    If you are born again, the law has been abolished by the finished work of Jesus on the Cross.
    Its gone, in the sense of making us guilty before God.
    Jesus took care of that by living a perfectly righteous life, before the Law, under its dominion, and that RIGHTEOUS that He lived, that He IS, was given to us, as "the gift of righteousness".
    End Result? We became "the righteousness of GOD, IN CHRIST"., and that never ends, no matter what you do wrong or right, or in between.
    Why? Because that is the GIFT OF SALVATION., and its a FREE GIFT.

    "we are not under the law, we are under GRACE", because....>"Christ has redeemed us from the CURSE of the Law".
    See that "curse". ???
    That curse is .......that the Law "is the power of sin".......and, the Law defines you as unrighteous, or as a sinner, IF you are under its dominion.
    = Not born again.
    But once you are born again, you are "not under the law, but UNDER GRACE", so, the law has no more power to define you as anything.
    It can't define you as sinner or unrighteous..........nothing.
    This is the Gift of God's Grace....that takes you out from under the LAW, and puts you into the Kingdom of God, where there is no dominion other then GOD's GRACE and GOD's Mercy and God's LIGHT.
     
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  9. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    The Scandal of Grace! We are dead to the law, and where there is no law, there is no transgression.

    Much love!
     
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  10. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    I will say that we are only not under the law, dead to the law, and delivered from the law if we are born again.

    And those who are born again have the desire not to sin.

    If anyone desires to sin and is hiding under the idea that he is not under the law, is dead to the law, and is delivered from the law, let him think again, that he is under the law, and is not dead to the law, and is not delivered from the law; because his desire to sin indicates to all that he is not born again; and the scriptures in question (Romans 6:14, Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19, Romans 7:6) only apply to the born again.

    Wet Paint Principle (Freedom)
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2021
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  11. Behold

    Behold Well-Known Member

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    Our flesh does not want to accept God's Grace.
    Our flesh wants to work to be accepted by God.
    However, that is not God's Salvation, as God Himself came here to offer Himself on The Cross.
    That is the work... He did it.......We get it......Its a Gift.

    Many believers are trying to work their way into heaven, or work their way into God's acceptance
    God accepts non of that.......= as all our works, as compared to Jesus= are DIRTY.. Filthy..... unacceptable to God.
    Its only "the finished WORK of Jesus on the Cross" that God provided.........as what God Accepts.
    God only accepts HIS OWN RIGHTEOUS, that He gave us as "the GIFT of Righteousness".
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2021
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  12. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Rom 8:12, Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
    Rom 8:13, For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
    Rom 8:14, For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
     
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  13. JohnDB

    JohnDB Well-Known Member

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    And what if "Born Again" is a bad marketing strategy from a bad translation that Wycliffe perpetrated?
    And the whole concept of what John 3 is based upon is not Nicodemus coming at night because he was afraid of anyone seeing him but waited until just after sunset (to not interfere with Jesus' ministry) but to be a friend and fan inside the Sanhedrin of what Jesus was doing and saying?

    Then you are on a completely wrong theology and thinking.

    Maybe that note of "born from Above" in your Bible means that you haven't done a proper hermeneutic to begin with. (It doesn't mean the same thing)

    And it's all just another case of blind leading the blind.
     
  14. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Nope; because Wycliffe's translation isn't a bad one.
     
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  15. JohnDB

    JohnDB Well-Known Member

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    So why the note about "born from above"?
     
  16. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    What note?
     
  17. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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  18. JohnDB

    JohnDB Well-Known Member

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    Do you not even own a printed Bible?

    ROFL.
     
  19. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Not every printed Bible has notes in it...

    Why ROFL?
     
  20. JohnDB

    JohnDB Well-Known Member

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    Every person I know over the past 50 years who is actually knowledgeable or even regularly attended a church on a halfway consistent basis owns several Bibles and knows all about the differences...this one about the footnote is chief among them.

    Why don't you do a "Google" search so you can have a discussion with some sort of true knowledge.
     
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