God commands disobedience to his word

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BreadOfLife

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Like I thought, you can't name one. Church discipline has become pretty lax everywhere, but ipso facto excommunication is a non-discipline and meaningless before God and man. By the way, you must have a serious conscience issue with idolatry as none of my statements could even be construed as "blanket" statements. Grow up, read a few hundred books and maybe you'll improve your reading comprehension. The word "they" refers to more than two. Did you complete elementary school?
This is a silly response.

Nobody is formally excommunicated unless they formally go into heresy are are openly defiant.
The Church couldn't possibly know about everybody's opinions. If somebody is worshiping Mary in the privacy of their own homes - that is their blasphemy - not the Church's. Paul only knew about the people he recommended for excommunication because the people were complaining about them.

As for your blanket statements - they are asinine and childish . . .
 

michaelvpardo

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This is a silly response.

Nobody is formally excommunicated unless they formally go into heresy are are openly defiant.
The Church couldn't possibly know about everybody's opinions. If somebody is worshiping Mary in the privacy of their own homes - that is their blasphemy - not the Church's. Paul only knew about the people he recommended for excommunication because the people were complaining about them.

As for your blanket statements - they are asinine and childish . . .
Sorry, you're a member of a silly church or you have a silly understanding of it. Do you live in a closet? Grow up and find yourself some help.
 

BreadOfLife

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Sorry, you're a member of a silly church or you have a silly understanding of it. Do you live in a closet? Grow up and find yourself some help.
Yes, I'm not the one who is lying and bearing FALSE witness with your nonsense about "Mary-worship", am I??

Look - if you're going to be an anti-Catholic - try to be the BEST little anti-Catholic you can be by doing your homework.
It gets a little embarrassing having to expose this kind of ignorance day in and day out . . .
 

michaelvpardo

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Yes, I'm not the one who is lying and bearing FALSE witness with your nonsense about "Mary-worship", am I??

Look - if you're going to be an anti-Catholic - try to be the BEST little anti-Catholic you can be by doing your homework.
It gets a little embarrassing having to expose this kind of ignorance day in and day out . . .
Yes you are as you insist that it doesn't happen when you can just look at images on line to view entire crowds following images of saints as devotees. The only ignorance you've ever exposed is your own. Go back to school get that GED and maybe try going to a catechism class or something.
 

BreadOfLife

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Yes you are as you insist that it doesn't happen when you can just look at images on line to view entire crowds following images of saints as devotees. The only ignorance you've ever exposed is your own. Go back to school get that GED and maybe try going to a catechism class or something.
So, because there is a procession - YOU believe that to be "worship"??

Do you believe that when a Grand Marshall of a parade drives by - the people are "worshiping" him??
Stop being silly.
 

BreadOfLife

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Yes, but a good shrink could help with your delusional psychosis. I'd get that taken care of if I were you.
Translation:
"I can't substantiate my asinine charges of Mary "worship" so I'll drop it now and stick to snarky comments.""

That's pretty much what I thought . . .
 

michaelvpardo

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Translation:
"I can't substantiate my asinine charges of Mary "worship" so I'll drop it now and stick to snarky comments.""

That's pretty much what I thought . . .
I don't need to, any former Roman Catholic knows exactly what I'm talking about and protestant churches are filled with them. Go back to your RCC appologist's dream world and pretend this doesn't exist as well.
 

BreadOfLife

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I don't need to, any former Roman Catholic knows exactly what I'm talking about and protestant churches are filled with them. Go back to your RCC appologist's dream world and pretend this doesn't exist as well.
And many Catholic parishes are swelling up with former Protestants . . .
 

Truth

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A few things wrong with your assumptions. In the two examples you gave, God clearly says why he allowed the Israelites to drive out the inhabitants (clue: it's just the opposite of what you stated about the women and children). "Thou shalt not kill" is addressing murder. Someone taking a life into their own hands. But God is allowed to use death as a punishment given that we all already have that sentence pronounced on us due to sin. Thru Christ, God makes this right again by raising everyone good and wicked alike.

As for the serpent, the NT explains that by Christ Himself. The serpent was not to be used other than that one time and that was to LOOK at it, not worship it as an idol. However, because of the healing, it later became a snare to the Israelites and they did just that (worship it) and had to be destroyed. Likewise, we are to look to Christ one time for salvation, but not to hang crucifixes all over the place. I don't even have a picture of Jesus hanging anywhere as nobody knows what he looked like an such a picture would then become a form of idolatry. The Old Testament has types and shadow of things to come which was the case in this incident. Context is important.

EXCELLENT REFUTE< Thank you
 

michaelvpardo

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Do any good genuflections lately? Kissed a crucifix? Referred to a man as "Holy father", bent the knee and kissed a ring? How's that god in a box thing doing?
You start with hypocrisy and end with lies.
 
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tabletalk

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Like I thought, you can't name one. Church discipline has become pretty lax everywhere, but ipso facto excommunication is a non-discipline and meaningless before God and man. By the way, you must have a serious conscience issue with idolatry as none of my statements could even be construed as "blanket" statements. Grow up, read a few hundred books and maybe you'll improve your reading comprehension. The word "they" refers to more than two. Did you complete elementary school?


I think Church discipline is a requirement for churches, but not common as far as I can tell. Does the Church you attend practice that?
It seems as if the Catholic Church has done away with the Anathemas, which I think are public excommunications.
Ipso facto excommunication seems to have no teeth, no restorative quality about it.
 

michaelvpardo

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I think Church discipline is a requirement for churches, but not common as far as I can tell. Does the Church you attend practice that?
It seems as if the Catholic Church has done away with the Anathemas, which I think are public excommunications.
Ipso facto excommunication seems to have no teeth, no restorative quality about it.
That was my point. The church that I was last a member of did make use of the biblical process of Church discipline, but most of those called to repentance ended up just leaving the congregation ( it's hard to overcome pride) and since there are always churches that will "look the other way" unrepentant "Christians" just move around to places more acceptable of their behavior or ignorant of it. I think people equate acceptance with love and ignore the warning that a little leaven , leavens the whole lump. I've never been disfellowshipped, but I've chosen to remove myself from a congregation because of my own inability to resolve marital issues that I felt would be adverse to the congregation's health. Maybe not the best move, but easy in the current state of affairs in the church at large.
 

BreadOfLife

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I think Church discipline is a requirement for churches, but not common as far as I can tell. Does the Church you attend practice that?
It seems as if the Catholic Church has done away with the Anathemas, which I think are public excommunications.
Ipso facto excommunication seems to have no teeth, no restorative quality about it.
Wrong.
WHO said that anathemas were "done away" with?

As for Ipso facto excommunication - it's basically self-excommunication.
One example might be a woman who gets an abortion. She is automatically excommunicated and any reception of the Sacraments at this point compounds her sin until she repents of that abomination.
 

tabletalk

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Wrong.
WHO said that anathemas were "done away" with?

As for Ipso facto excommunication - it's basically self-excommunication.
One example might be a woman who gets an abortion. She is automatically excommunicated and any reception of the Sacraments at this point compounds her sin until she repents of that abomination.


From Catholic Answers, April 1,2000, by Jimmy Akin:

"Over time, a distinction came to be made between excommunication and anathema. The precise nature of the distinction varied but eventually became fixed. By the time of Gregory IX (1370–1378), the term anathema was used to describe a major excommunication that was performed with a solemn pontifical ceremony. This customarily involved the ringing of a bell, the closing of a book, and the snuffing out of candles, collectively signifying that the highest ecclesiastical court had spoken and would not reconsider the matter until the individual gave evidence of repentance.

Such solemnities have been rare in Church history. They remained on the books, however, as late as the 1917 Code of Canon Law, which provided that, "Excommunication . . . is called anathema especially when it is imposed with the solemnities that are described in the Roman Pontifical" (CIC [1917] 2257 §§ 1–2).

Yet the penalty was used so seldom that it was removed from the 1983 Code of Canon Law. This means that today the penalty of anathema does not exist in Church law. The new Code provided that, "When this Code goes into effect, the following are abrogated: 1º the Code of Canon Law promulgated in 1917 . . . 3º any universal or particular penal laws whatsoever issued by the Apostolic See, unless they are contained in this Code" (CIC [1983] 6 §1). The penalty of anathema was not renewed in the new Code, and thus it was abrogated when the Code went into effect on January 1, 1983."