God's Desire is that All Men be Saved!

[justbyfaith]

And where do the ears to hear come from?

Obviously they were created by the Lord.

Does this preclude that we do not make a choice when we hear the word of the Lord?

 

[reformed1689]

Obviously they were created by the Lord.

Does this preclude that we do not make a choice when we hear the word of the Lord?

I am saying not everyone has ears to hear.

 

[justbyfaith]

I am saying not everyone has ears to hear.

Jesus gave His life as a ransom for all.

 

[reformed1689]

Jesus gave His life as a ransom for all.

Actually, Jesus said he came to give his life as a ransom for MANY. Not all.

 

[justbyfaith]

Actually, Jesus said he came to give his life as a ransom for MANY. Not all.

1Ti 2:5, For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1Ti 2:6, Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

 

[reformed1689]

1Ti 2:5, For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1Ti 2:6, Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Hmm, so who was right? Jesus or Paul?

 

[justbyfaith]

Hmm, so who was right? Jesus or Paul?

Personally, I believe that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Jesus.

So it is not a matter of either/or.

Certainly, what Paul wrote was inspired by the Holy Spirit of Jesus.

 

[reformed1689]

Personally, I believe that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Jesus.

So it is not a matter of either/or.

Certainly, what Paul wrote was inspired by the Holy Spirit of Jesus.

But they said two different things. Jesus said Many, Paul said All. So which one is right? Many does not equal all.

 

[justbyfaith]

But they said two different things. Jesus said Many, Paul said All. So which one is right? Many does not equal all.

Sure it can.

If I have all the Bibles in the world, it can also be said that I have many.

 

[reformed1689]

Sure it can.

If I have all the Bibles in the world, it can also be said that I have many.

You are ignoring the actual issue. Not only did Jesus say many, and not all, He said He only lays down His life for the sheep. Now, unless you are a universalist, that doesn't mean every individual person.

So again, who is right? Jesus or Paul?

 

[justbyfaith]

Jesus inspired what Paul wrote...so if Jesus is right then Paul is right.

 

[justbyfaith]

This is not changing the subject by any means.

I find that Calvinism denies the reality of what Jesus said in John 6:37...that whoever comes to Him He will in no wise cast out.

If only those whom God has chosen can be redeemed, then that means that if you aren't chosen, you cannot be redeemed no matter how hard you follow after Him...and this means that the Lord casts out many who seek Him and come to Him.

If God has not chosen me, and I do not in any sense choose Him, then no amount of my choosing Him/coming to Him is going to avail to obtain salvation for me. If He has not chosen me, then I cannot be redeemed.

I say to you truly that this aspect of Calvinism is contrary to holy scripture and Jesus' words.

It also promotes a defeatist attitude in the body of Christ...so that people will not evangelize in order to get people to make a decision for Christ...because in Calvinism, such a thing is not the issue.

 

[reformed1689]

Jesus inspired what Paul wrote...so if Jesus is right then Paul is right.

You are still dodging. If you want the real answer, when Paul says ransom for all, if you look at context, he is not talking about individuals, just as Jesus did not say all individuals but only the sheep. Never once does the bible say died as ransom for all people meaning all individuals.

 

[reformed1689]

I find that Calvinism denies the reality of what Jesus said in John 6:37...that whoever comes to Him He will in no wise cast out.

You are ignoring the first part of that verse. It says the ones the Father GIVES are the ones that come. Nobody comes on their own.

If only those whom God has chosen can be redeemed, then that means that if you aren't chosen, you cannot be redeemed no matter how hard you follow after Him...and this means that the Lord casts out many who seek Him and come to Him.

Nobody seeks God. Romans 3:10-12

I say to you truly that this aspect of Calvinism is contrary to holy scripture and Jesus' words.

How?

It also promotes a defeatist attitude in the body of Christ...so that people will not evangelize in order to get people to make a decision for Christ...because in Calvinism, such a thing is not the issue.

No. God has chosen the evangelism of the people through His Word to be the agent of saving faith and knowledge. Calvinists have been some of the heaviest evangelists throughout history.

 

[justbyfaith]

Never once does the bible say died as ransom for all people meaning all individuals.

I disagree.

 

[justbyfaith]

No. God has chosen the evangelism of the people through His Word to be the agent of saving faith and knowledge. Calvinists have been some of the heaviest evangelists throughout history.

But there is no point to it.

God chooses them, they don't choose God.

 

[reformed1689]

I disagree.

You disagree but also didn't engage with the arguments? Guess you aren't wanting honest discussion then and are just brainwashed into your humanist thinking.

 

[reformed1689]

But there is no point to it.

God chooses them, they don't choose God.

There is a point to it. God commanded it. End of discussion.

 

[justbyfaith]

There is a point to it. God commanded it. End of discussion.

Not the end of the discussion.

If there is a point to it, then their choice matters.

 

[justbyfaith]

You disagree but also didn't engage with the arguments? Guess you aren't wanting honest discussion then and are just brainwashed into your humanist thinking.

No, I just see in 1 Timothy 2:6 what you do not. What is the point of arguing?