Got your ears on?

[Enoch111]

Anyone who says that it is about all 66 books of the bible, is under the curse, not of all the books of the bible, but of "this book."

That is really stretching it. And to prove that you are wrong, here are the facts.

1. Revelation is indeed THE LAST BOOK in the Bible, chronologically as well as logically.

2. John was THE LAST PROPHET and apostle, since he made it clear that Revelation was a book of prophecy.

3. To add prophecies AFTER c 96 AD would be a violation of what John said regarding addition to his words.

4. There was not a single Apostolic Father (Christian ecclesiastical writer) who claimed that he was a prophet, following the departure of the apostles.

5. So anyone claiming to be a prophet today and bringing *prophecies* would be under the curse, not those who reject false prophets.

6. The biblical canon is limited to the 66 books in our non-Catholic Bibles. And we do not need any more revelations since 2 Tim 3:16,17 tells us that the Bible is sufficient.

 

[Windmillcharge]

1. No, that is not all I said, you left out that He confirmed it by His word. Nonetheless, if God chooses to make Himself known, He makes Himself known. He's God. You may doubt me, but I do not doubt Him...nor is it even possible in His presence.
2. I have never heard the testimony of a mormon.
3. You do not have to take my word for anything. Believe what you will. But it is God's method of revelation, to speak to and send individuals. If you disqualify on that basis, it is against God, not me.

Then I missed that.
sorry.

 

[Windmillcharge]

Well you dont, but than what has the devil got to do with people following God, you just know it is God just as the first time I met the devil I knew it was Him, or the Spirit of death sent to take my life, in the spirit we know more than we do in this ghastly flesh

This is what I've been arguing with ScottA about. How do you know it is God or the devil. The devil can disguise himeslf as an angel of light. He has followed many people, you only have to look at the christian cults to see that.

 

[brakelite]

What I find intriguing is the occasion when Jesus walked besides those two disciples on the road to Emmaus. Jesus did not give them any spiritual revelation until after He had given them a Bible study. God wants His people to trust in His word before anything or anyone else. The Bereans understood that.

 

[mjrhealth]

This is what I've been arguing with ScottA about. How do you know it is God or the devil. The devil can disguise himeslf as an angel of light. He has followed many people, you only have to look at the christian cults to see that.

Joh 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

dont you know the voice of your saviour??

Mat_17:5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

Christianity is about faith, it is all that pleases God, if you have no faith how can you grow..

 

[mjrhealth]

What I find intriguing is the occasion when Jesus walked besides those two disciples on the road to Emmaus. Jesus did not give them any spiritual revelation until after He had given them a Bible study. God wants His people to trust in His word before anything or anyone else. The Bereans understood that.

Yes His word Jesus Christ that so few have faith in..

Heb 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
Heb 3:7 Wherefore as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,
Heb 3:8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness

yet stil lmesn hearts are hardened and Christ a stumbling block,

that Golden Calf, that idol that men put before and above God, the bible,,, whom they demand even He, bow down too...

 

[ScottA]

That is really stretching it. And to prove that you are wrong, here are the facts.

1. Revelation is indeed THE LAST BOOK in the Bible, chronologically as well as logically.

2. John was THE LAST PROPHET and apostle, since he made it clear that Revelation was a book of prophecy.

3. To add prophecies AFTER c 96 AD would be a violation of what John said regarding addition to his words.

4. There was not a single Apostolic Father (Christian ecclesiastical writer) who claimed that he was a prophet, following the departure of the apostles.

5. So anyone claiming to be a prophet today and bringing *prophecies* would be under the curse, not those who reject false prophets.

6. The biblical canon is limited to the 66 books in our non-Catholic Bibles. And we do not need any more revelations since 2 Tim 3:16,17 tells us that the Bible is sufficient.

None of that changes the fact that Jesus himself told John to write "this book" of Revelation AFTER the others were completed. It was indeed the last book, which makes all your claims false.

You do not get to say it is different than what Jesus has already said. He is right. You are wrong.

 

[ScottA]

Then I missed that.
sorry.

All is forgiven.

 

[Danube]

Can I ask then:

Should a chosen selected few, who derive their own authority of delivering scripture from a completely immoral foundation of guidelines, have complete autonomy on how we recieve the scripture?

One man can pick up a bible, read it, recieve instruction from it, adhere to its instructions, recieve its moral authority, be guided by it, only to find out by being told they are ALL wrong about it's message, through the opinion of men and women who sought permission from any other source but that of God.

Can a man, who first must buy into membership of a church using worldy treasure, seek the word from a single figure, in this case a female church leader (?) who is a proud homosexual, sets the menu then reads you scripture, enterprets it for you (remember your not qualified) is endorsed by her government, having to of gained it's approval, sought academic approval trust from the state, to do what God COMMANDS all who hear his message to do anyway... ?

More people prefer to be preached at as their biblical food source than to simply read what they always had access to anyway..in groups of 2 or more!
Matthew 18:20

 

[Carl]

It is a stretch because it's wrong.

The warning and curse in the book of Revelation is limited to the book of Revelations, which Jesus made clear to John, "saying, “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last,” and, “What you see, write in a book and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia" Revelation 1:11.

Anyone who says that it is about all 66 books of the bible, is under the curse, not of all the books of the bible, but of "this book." "For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book" Revelation 22:18-19.

Read it again...confess your sin, and repent.

Ok, then what do we do with that of Gal. 3:1 where it says the book of the law, which book would he be referring to ? Or how about Heb. 10:7 where God says it is written of him in the volume of the book, is this just talking about The book of Hebrews only or perhaps in these two passages it is talking about the whole Bible that we have today and not just parts or a book.

 

[ScottA]

Ok, then what do we do with that of Gal. 3:1 where it says the book of the law, which book would he be referring to ? Or how about Heb. 10:7 where God says it is written of him in the volume of the book, is this just talking about The book of Hebrews only or perhaps in these two passages it is talking about the whole Bible that we have today and not just parts or a book.

1. Galatians 3:10 refers to Israel being under the law, and Paul is telling the Galatians that they are not Israel and therefore not under the books of the law.
   
2. Hebrews 10:7 refers to Psalm 40:7 where David is prophesying of Christ. Paul is only saying that Christ came just as it was written of Him in the books of the prophets.

 

[Carl]

1. Galatians 3:10 refers to Israel being under the law, and Paul is telling the Galatians that they are not Israel and therefore not under the books of the law.
   
2. Hebrews 10:7 refers to Psalm 40:7 where David is prophesying of Christ. Paul is only saying that Christ came just as it was written of Him in the books of the prophets.

Interesting that you used the word books instead of book and yet you are going to tell me that Heb. 10:47 is a reference to that of the book of Psalms. The fact of the matter is this that yet in Revelation and in these verses that I quoted yet do refer a singular book and that book is the Bible and in the Bible it contains others books with in a book so with that in mind the verse that is mentioned in Revelation along with that of many verses are saying the Bible, the Bible as in a cohesive unit and not just isolated. As far as the verse that I quoted in Revelation it has to deal with the Bible in whole because if you take some things out of the book of Revelation or even add things to the book of Revelation then you are adding to the whole Bible because Revelation does not just stand out on its own merit it is a cohesive unit or maybe better said a vital part of the whole Bible.

 

[Carl]

Only problem is, revelation comes from God, so no man can understand that book without God revealing it to Him, without revelation is it just cause to argue.

Gal_1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Eph_1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

1Jn_2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

no other way, no man can teach you revelation.

Maybe we need to define the word revelation and prophecy. If we say we are receiving divine revelation apart from the Bible then we are already on a wrong foot. Likewise with prophecy if we receive a divine prophecy apart from the Bible then here to we are on a wrong foot.

But if we receive revelation from what is written from the Bible or even prophecy from the Bible or better said what God has given us from his word the Bible, then we can be assured we are on solid ground but apart from that no.

 

[ScottA]

Interesting that you used the word books instead of book and yet you are going to tell me that Heb. 10:47 is a reference to that of the book of Psalms. The fact of the matter is this that yet in Revelation and in these verses that I quoted yet do refer a singular book and that book is the Bible and in the Bible it contains others books with in a book so with that in mind the verse that is mentioned in Revelation along with that of many verses are saying the Bible, the Bible as in a cohesive unit and not just isolated. As far as the verse that I quoted in Revelation it has to deal with the Bible in whole because if you take some things out of the book of Revelation or even add things to the book of Revelation then you are adding to the whole Bible because Revelation does not just stand out on its own merit it is a cohesive unit or maybe better said a vital part of the whole Bible.

That is not what it says. You are not connecting the dots, but are adding much.

 

[brakelite]

That is really stretching it. And to prove that you are wrong, here are the facts.

1. Revelation is indeed THE LAST BOOK in the Bible, chronologically as well as logically.

2. John was THE LAST PROPHET and apostle, since he made it clear that Revelation was a book of prophecy.

3. To add prophecies AFTER c 96 AD would be a violation of what John said regarding addition to his words.

4. There was not a single Apostolic Father (Christian ecclesiastical writer) who claimed that he was a prophet, following the departure of the apostles.

5. So anyone claiming to be a prophet today and bringing *prophecies* would be under the curse, not those who reject false prophets.

6. The biblical canon is limited to the 66 books in our non-Catholic Bibles. And we do not need any more revelations since 2 Tim 3:16,17 tells us that the Bible is sufficient.

How do you explain God's own description in Revelation itself of the end-time church as being not only the peculiar target of Satan, but which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Revel.12:17 Elsewhere we are informed that the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. Revel.19:10 So we have three specific characteristics that identify God's people immediately before His second coming,

• They are a persecuted church
• They keep God's commandments (in contradiction to those who have the mark of the beast)
• They possess the spirit of prophecy.

If God felt it necessary to send a prophet into the world to announce His first advent, (John the Baptist), why would it be so strange to think that He would even more so send a prophet to announce His second advent? Did not Jesus even hint at this when He said John the Baptist was a part fulfillment of Malachi 4:5?

 

[mjrhealth]

Maybe we need to define the word revelation and prophecy. If we say we are receiving divine revelation apart from the Bible then we are already on a wrong foot. Likewise with prophecy if we receive a divine prophecy apart from the Bible then here to we are on a wrong foot.

But if we receive revelation from what is written from the Bible or even prophecy from the Bible or better said what God has given us from his word the Bible, then we can be assured we are on solid ground but apart from that no.

It is not s limitation God put on Himself , but one man put on God. You have your God box, shoved Him in side and said" God this is whom I perceive you to be and dont you dare be anything else, and so shut teh door in His face, you doing not His, as for prophecy

Act_2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

Paul received all His revelation from God, He had no bible, John wrote a whole book,"revelation" from God, most what teh disciples taught after Christs resurrection cam by revelation from Christ,

so much unbelief.

 

[Windmillcharge]

Joh 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

dont you know the voice of your saviour??

Mat_17:5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

Christianity is about faith, it is all that pleases God, if you have no faith how can you grow..

In surmons, prayers,and in the scripture yes. I've heard too many people say God told me and what God told them bore no resemblence to anything in scripture.
My experience is those people who refuse to listen to what is in scripture are listening to lies and are not following God.

 

[Enoch111]

How do you explain God's own description in Revelation itself of the end-time church as being not only the peculiar target of Satan, but which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Revel.12:17

When we study Revelation 12 we see (1) a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun and (2) the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan.

Most evangelical Bible scholars agree that this woman represents believing Israel (not Mary as taught by the RCC), whose man-child was Christ, who will rule the nations with a rod of iron. Therefore Revelation 12:7 is about the BELIEVING REMNANT ("the remnant of her seed") of Israel during the 3 1/2 year reign of the Antichrist, not the Church:And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

We also note that God preserves this remnant in the wilderness for 3 1/2 years: And to the woman [believing Israel] were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time (1 year), and times (2 years), and half a time (6 months), from the face of the serpent.

Did not Jesus even hint at this when He said John the Baptist was a part fulfillment of Malachi 4:5?

You are absolutely right, but again Elijah will be present on earth (with Moses) during the 3 1/2 reign of the Antichrist, and the second coming of Christ will be shortly thereafter as noted in Malachi:And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. (Rev 11:3)

1260 days = 42 months = 3 1/2 years (the prophetic month being of a 30 day duration).
And they worshipped the dragon [Satan] which gave power unto the beast [the Antichrist]: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. (Rev 13:4,5)

As you can see, everything from Revelation 11-13 is related to the Antichrist with Satan energizing him (or being within him).

As to Rev 19:10, that pertains to the apostle/prophet John himself:And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

What does the last phrase mean? Since the Holy Spirit inspired the prophets and apostles ("thy brethren") from Genesis to Revelation, He is the Spirit of prophecy. And as we know from the words of Christ Himself the entire Bible is the *testimony of Jesus* (since every page testifies to Him). And Jesus told us that the Holy Spirit would not speak about Himself but glorify Christ:He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. (Jn 16:14)

 

[brakelite]

When we study Revelation 12 we see (1) a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun and (2) the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan.

Most evangelical Bible scholars agree that this woman represents believing Israel (not Mary as taught by the RCC), whose man-child was Christ, who will rule the nations with a rod of iron. Therefore Revelation 12:7 is about the BELIEVING REMNANT ("the remnant of her seed") of Israel during the 3 1/2 year reign of the Antichrist, not the Church:And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

We also note that God preserves this remnant in the wilderness for 3 1/2 years: And to the woman [believing Israel] were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time (1 year), and times (2 years), and half a time (6 months), from the face of the serpent.

You are absolutely right, but again Elijah will be present on earth (with Moses) during the 3 1/2 reign of the Antichrist, and the second coming of Christ will be shortly thereafter as noted in Malachi:And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. (Rev 11:3)

1260 days = 42 months = 3 1/2 years (the prophetic month being of a 30 day duration).
And they worshipped the dragon [Satan] which gave power unto the beast [the Antichrist]: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. (Rev 13:4,5)

As you can see, everything from Revelation 11-13 is related to the Antichrist with Satan energizing him (or being within him).

As to Rev 19:10, that pertains to the apostle/prophet John himself:And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

What does the last phrase mean? Since the Holy Spirit inspired the prophets and apostles ("thy brethren") from Genesis to Revelation, He is the Spirit of prophecy. And as we know from the words of Christ Himself the entire Bible is the *testimony of Jesus* (since every page testifies to Him). And Jesus told us that the Holy Spirit would not speak about Himself but glorify Christ:He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. (Jn 16:14)

Okay, thankyou. That's a good clear explanation of your belief. I don't agree, but I understand. Cheers.

 

[farouk]

If we say we are receiving divine revelation apart from the Bible then we are already on a wrong foot.

Well, exactly; the Bible is complete now.