Grace First

[Episkopos]

So many doctrines these days seek to wrest the initiative of salvation away from God and onto themselves.

But God is sovereign.

He has sent grace into the world...for all men. Our decision is whether we wish to cooperate with God or not. No acceptance of His grace is required. It is already done. All we can do is reject it.

The universal grace of God is for all. It is like a sunny day. The sunny day is for all. Now people can refuse to participate in that sunny day by remaining indoors or walking around in a parka or some other inappropriate clothing. But that doesn't change the sunny day....only HOW we will cooperate or not. We are not the ones deciding if the day is sunny or not.

So then the initiative rests always with God.

There is a pernicious doctrine floating around that states that grace is only ours if we accept it. But that takes the initiative away from God and gives it to evil men....who have a self-serving agenda of personal gain. God is not like that. He is a Giver.

So then the church is full of "takers"...rather than cooperators with His grace. His grace is freely given to all by His love. When we cooperate with His love we grow IN that grace..so as to love others.

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation hath appeared to all men,

No religious organization can claim to be the exclusive dispensers of God's grace.


1 Timothy 4:10
10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

Especially...but not exclusively. An honest appraisal of the words from God reveal that God chooses to retain the initiative. It is HE who decides on whom He will have mercy. So then many are saved outside the church boundaries...by the will of God.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.



God is love and He is good. We tend to forget that in order to force Him into our own selfish image.

 

[Acolyte]

We are truely blessed. Unworthy by nature, saved by grace. AMEN
GLORY GLORY
Psalm 150

 

[Episkopos]

Now there are huge ramifications to allowing God to be sovereign over His own creation. (As if He needed our approval).

It means that we have NO (zero) say in who gets "saved" or not...not even for ourselves. NO...the initiative remains in HIS hands.

So then His grace works with ALL men...regardless of religion...or lack thereof.

If a person acts by his/her conscience to do that which is pleasing to God...then that person is operating inside the grace of God...whether that person is a theist or not.

God is not a respecter of beliefs or persons. (Remember He is God and can do as He chooses)

So that means there are many who CLAIM to be saved by grace...by taking grace for themselves in a religious manner...like the Pharisees did. Of course these are actually NOT cooperating with grace but instead fashioning their own righteousness by their own beliefs...while wresting the initiative of salvation away from God and onto themselves. As such they become the judges of others.

But then there are they who humbly do what God required...even atheists...who are actually cooperating with grace. These will be justified by the works...in a justification that these do NOT seek for themselves. God will save these.

This is the righteousness of God at work in the world.

Does the church called by His name find Him offensive in His judgments? What will the sons of the kingdom do differently this time. Will we learn from the experience of the Jews and the testimony of the words from God? Or will we also be rejected from the kingdom as they were?

Unfortunately most will reject God's ways in favour of their own.

 

[farouk]

We are truely blessed. Unworthy by nature, saved by grace. AMEN
GLORY GLORY
Psalm 150

So much in the Psalms!

 

[marks]

If a person acts by his/her conscience to do that which is pleasing to God...then that person is operating inside the grace of God...whether that person is a theist or not.

So then you are saying that you can please God while not believing in Him?

Much love!

 

[marks]

But then there are they who humbly do what God required...even atheists...who are actually cooperating with grace. These will be justified by the works...in a justification that these do NOT seek for themselves. God will save these.

Nevermind the above. This answers well for itself.

Hebrews 11:6 "But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him."

It's perfectly plain that athiests aren't included.

You may wish to reconsider.

Much love!

 

[marks]

He has sent grace into the world...for all men. Our decision is whether we wish to cooperate with God or not. No acceptance of His grace is required. It is already done. All we can do is reject it.

The universal grace of God is for all. It is like a sunny day. The sunny day is for all. Now people can refuse to participate in that sunny day by remaining indoors or walking around in a parka or some other inappropriate clothing. But that doesn't change the sunny day....only HOW we will cooperate or not. We are not the ones deciding if the day is sunny or not.

What Scriptures do you find this taught in?

This is not how salvation works.

God has reconciled humanity to Himself, yet we still have to be reconciled to Him. It's not automatic. If you confess you are forgiven.

God decided to save us, now you must decide to be saved.

Or the alternative is to find out there is a truth you do not want.

Much love!

 

[Helen]

So many doctrines these days seek to wrest the initiative of salvation away from God and onto themselves.

But God is sovereign.

He has sent grace into the world...for all men. Our decision is whether we wish to cooperate with God or not. No acceptance of His grace is required. It is already done. All we can do is reject it.

The universal grace of God is for all. It is like a sunny day. The sunny day is for all. Now people can refuse to participate in that sunny day by remaining indoors or walking around in a parka or some other inappropriate clothing. But that doesn't change the sunny day....only HOW we will cooperate or not. We are not the ones deciding if the day is sunny or not.

So then the initiative rests always with God.

There is a pernicious doctrine floating around that states that grace is only ours if we accept it. But that takes the initiative away from God and gives it to evil men....who have a self-serving agenda of personal gain. God is not like that. He is a Giver.

So then the church is full of "takers"...rather than cooperators with His grace. His grace is freely given to all by His love. When we cooperate with His love we grow IN that grace..so as to love others.

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation hath appeared to all men,

No religious organization can claim to be the exclusive dispensers of God's grace.


1 Timothy 4:10
10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

Especially...but not exclusively. An honest appraisal of the words from God reveal that God chooses to retain the initiative. It is HE who decides on whom He will have mercy. So then many are saved outside the church boundaries...by the will of God.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.



God is love and He is good. We tend to forget that in order to force Him into our own selfish image.

EXCELLENT!!

One of your best posts ever.

I did say..."one of"..lol

This blessed my soul. Thank you.

 

[Episkopos]

But what of Christianity? Well, Christianity is grace upon grace.

John 1:16 “And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.” (actually grace on top of, or in addition to, grace)

IOW we are they who seek to cooperate with God...and we who surrender from our own agendas can be empowered by His fulness of grace to fulfill the whole will of God..perfectly.

Eph. 3:19 19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

So then His love is meant to win us over to become conduits of HIS love in the world.

So then there are always 2 levels to everything. What men can do...from their own consciences...and what God can do Himself through us.

A righteous man does good works. But a saint does HIS works.

The sword of God has 2 edges just like the word of God has 2 levels.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

But what of Christianity? Well, Christianity is grace upon grace.

John 1:16 “And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.” (actually grace on top of, or in addition to, grace)

IOW we are they who seek to cooperate with God...and we who surrender from our own agendas can be empowered by His fulness of grace to fulfill the whole will of God..perfectly.

Eph. 3:19 19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

So then His love is meant to win us over to become conduits of HIS love in the world.

So then there are always 2 levels to everything. What men can do...from their own consciences...and what God can do Himself through us.

A righteous man does good works. But a saint does HIS works.

The sword of God has 2 edges just like the word of God has 2 levels.

God is able to make us stand, 2 Corinthians 12:9 9But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me.

 

[farouk]

Nevermind the above. This answers well for itself.

Hebrews 11:6 "But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him."

It's perfectly plain that athiests aren't included.

You may wish to reconsider.

Much love!

Great verse there...

 

[Episkopos]

God is able to make us stand, 2 Corinthians 12:9 9But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me.

Yes...this is the grace given to God's ministers. At that level grace is the power of God to carry out the will of God.

Grace is there to strengthen us. The basic universal grace is according to our conscience. But so many of us have gone beyond the child-like conscience and into sin. Therefore we need a reconciliation with God in order to get back a clear conscience.

God calls us out of our own lives and strength so as to enter into Christ. This is at the higher level of righteousness which is by grace. So then IN HIM we become God's witness of righteousness in the world.

 

[Episkopos]

So then you are saying that you can please God while not believing in Him?

Much love!

Not pleasing...but acceptable to Him. God is not out to get non-religious people...but to save them.

Acts 10:35 But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him.

 

[marks]

Not pleasing...but acceptable to Him. God is not out to get non-religious people...but to save them.

Acts 10:35 But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him.

But that is only in believing in Him. How does that apply to the athiest?

The atheist does not believe in God, therefore does not fear Him, and whatever may pass for works of righteousness on their own part, outside of God, are truly defiled works, and not works of actual righteousness.

Much love!

 

[marks]

But so many of us have gone beyond the child-like conscience and into sin.

Are you now saying that only some people have sinned?

 

[farouk]

Are you now saying that only some people have sinned?

Romans 3.23 is clear, right?

 

[marks]

Romans 3.23 is clear, right?

It most certainly is.

I love that about the Bible, it anticipates and clarifies all questions.

Much love!

 

[farouk]

It most certainly is.

I love that about the Bible, it anticipates and clarifies all questions.

Much love!

Indeed it does; Psalm 119.105.

 

[Episkopos]

Are you now saying that only some people have sinned?

Find in the bible where it says that Jesus only died for the church.

I cited 3 verses that say that Jesus died for all men...even unbelievers. And there are many more. If you can't see what I wrote in the OP I don't expect you will search the bible though.

 

[marks]

Find in the bible where it says that Jesus only died for the church.

I cited 3 verses that say that Jesus died for all men...even unbelievers. And there are many more. If you can't see what I wrote in the OP I don't expect you will search the bible though.

I noticed you didn't answer my question, and instead answered a question I wasn't asking.

I wonder how many reading this would realize that you didn't actually give an answer, and instead wrote something non-sequitor?

My question to you was asking whether you were truly saying that only some, and not all people have sinned?

Because what you wrote was:

But so many of us have gone beyond the child-like conscience and into sin.

Romans 3 tells us all have sinned, here it looks like you are saying that some, not all have sinned, so I'm seeking to clarify.

Much love!