Grace

[CharismaticLady]

Again . . . why do you think I enjoy it?

And . . . do you actually think it's my most frequently used word? Seriously?

Much love!

Absolutely. Like a kid with a favorite toy.

 

[marks]

Absolutely. Like a kid with a favorite toy.

I'd love it if you were to actually think about what you just said.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I'd love it if you were to actually think about what you just said.

So why do you make that accusation all the time - more than anyone else?

You know what? I don't care. That's for you to think about alone. Bye!

 

[Wrangler]

Some who say grace "can't be earned" believe they can't repent as that would be a righteous work.

There are many works that are righteous. That is not the point. Repenting is not the cause of your salvation. It is a pre-requisite. Now that you have the courage and humility to face your Creator ...

I fear too many think paying lip service will suffice. "I believe" or "I repent" are only words without action that makes the words real. This is why this quote from Jesus is among my very favorite.


Not everyone who says to Me, “Lord, Lord,” will enter the kingdom of heaven. Simply calling Me “Lord” will not be enough. Only those who do the will of My Father who is in heaven will join Me in heaven.
Matthew 7:21 (Voice)

 

[David H.]

But every time we disagree, you dive into your negative personal assessments of me. I point them out, not to defend myself, but to call attention to your tactics.

Loving others, that is, thinking the best we can of them, hoping the best for them, wanting the best for them, doing the best for them, for a sincere heart, and not based on what they do regarding ourselves.

What you view as me making a negative personal assessment of yourself, is Me "hoping the best for you" and encouraging you to grab Hold of More of the Grace He has for us.... The riches of His Grace (Ephesians 1:7-12, Ephesians 2:7).

I Am truly saddened that you do not receive it as such.

You would rather follow a man who boasts about being a teacher and how many posts he has written on this forum, than hear being encouraged to be taught by the Holy Ghost and to seek more of the unsearchable riches Christ has to offer us, the Gold refined in the fire.... (Ephesians 3:8, and Revelation 3:18)

And my advice to you would be to study Romans 4-8. Since we're sharing our advice for each other.

Yes, I concur, for in there you will find the foundations of the Holiness movement (See Romans 6:18-22, And Romans 8:4)
Good advice.

 

[CharismaticLady]

There are many works that are righteous. That is not the point. Repenting is not the cause of your salvation. It is a pre-requisite. Now that you have the courage and humility to face your Creator ...

I fear too many think paying lip service will suffice. "I believe" or "I repent" are only words without action that makes the words real. This is why this quote from Jesus is among my very favorite.


Not everyone who says to Me, “Lord, Lord,” will enter the kingdom of heaven. Simply calling Me “Lord” will not be enough. Only those who do the will of My Father who is in heaven will join Me in heaven.
Matthew 7:21 (Voice)

Yes, the old "and forgive me of my sins" is not enough. I didn't know what true repentance was until I happened to get it right one night and was filled with the Spirit. It was like finding the right key for the lock. That was after 30 years of "lip service."

It was also when I discovered the true meaning of grace, and it is NOT unmerited favor after becoming a Christian. That is before becoming filled with the Spirit, being saved by grace, but afterwards grace becomes the Divine Power of God. 2 Peter 1:2-4

 

[Behold]

This is also how we love each other.

Loving others, that is, thinking the best we can of them, hoping the best for them, wanting the best for them, doing the best for them, for a sincere heart, and not based on what they do regarding ourselves.
Loving everyone the same, whether friend or foe, whether easy or difficult . . . be perfect, as your Father in heaven is perfect. Which is to say, love with a muture and complete and full love! And so be the children of your Heavenly Father.Much love!

There is the Love of God that is not connected to accepting everyone's behavior.
God loves, because He is love, but this love is not "blind tolerance", and in fact, JUDGMENT is a part of God's LOVE< as surely as righteous "Jealousy" is a part of God's nature.

 

[marks]

So why do you make that accusation all the time - more than anyone else?

You know what? I don't care. That's for you to think about alone. Bye!

All the time is an overgeneralization - A logical fallacy - A nonsensical statement. People use this wording to make something seem bigger than it is. There's a saying, if you throw a rock into a pack of dogs, the one that yelps is the one that was hit. Any idea how many times I see this and don't mention it?

I wonder how many realize, ad hominem doesn't just mean insulting? It means that someone is diverting the argument away from the topic, and towards the person, in whatever way. But it's used to discredit what a person is saying without having to actually give a refutation.

More than anyone else? I wouldn't know. What's the count? Or were you just saying that too?

Do you realize there's a reason for pointing these out? There is never a need for that sort of thing. It's not a good witness. It doesn't further the discussion. It divides, pushes people away. I don't say this to just anyone. But I believe you are able to recognize the pattern, and to rise above it.

Much love!

 

[marks]

What you view as me making a negative personal assessment of yourself, is Me "hoping the best for you" and encouraging you to grab Hold of More of the Grace He has for us.... The riches of His Grace (Ephesians 1:7-12, Ephesians 2:7).

Hoping the best for you, and declaring you deluded and immature and carnal and so on and so on are very different things. I've heard 'Christians' castigate me in subtle and not so subtle ways enough to last a lifetime.

This is a pattern that is repeating itself. Our discussion devolves into this sort of thing when we disagree over the Scriptures, or viewpoints, and that should not be.

Let's go on and talk about the doctrines, the Bible, but not our views of each other. We've never even met! Nor spoken on the phone. Nothing. Words on a page. So let's leave it alone.

You can express your view, I mine.

OK?

I Am truly saddened that you do not receive it as such.

Perhaps give some consideration and see if there be any truth in what I say, that perhaps this may be the reason?

You would rather follow a man who boasts about being a teacher and how many posts he has written on this forum, than hear being encouraged to be taught by the Holy Ghost and to seek more of the unsearchable riches Christ has to offer us, the Gold refined in the fire.... (Ephesians 3:8, and Revelation 3:18)

I would rather learn from the Bible as I learned this doctrine from the Bible, and long before you and I ever conversed. You can even check my years ago posts as "mark s".

This is an example of an erroneous assumption. And now instead of talking about the Bible I'm explaining myself to you. That's not what I'm here for. But I'm wanting that you would understand.

I'm not trying to make you "look bad". I'm not trying to "win". I'm trying to elevate our conversation, and just leave these distractions behind.



Much love!

 

[marks]

There is the Love of God that is not connected to accepting everyone's behavior.
God loves, because He is love, but this love is not "blind tolerance", and in fact, JUDGMENT is a part of God's LOVE< as surely as righteous "Jealousy" is a part of God's nature.

So true!

I'm extremely glad God does not just accept my bad behavior! In fact, He's used some fairly extreme methods of correcting my bad behavior!

But afterward, the peaceable fruits of righteousness.

God loves us so much He finds us worth protecting - His jealously - and avenging - His wrath.

This is True Love!

Much love!

 

[David H.]

I would rather learn from the Bible as I learned this doctrine from the Bible, and long before you and I ever conversed. You can even check my years ago posts as "mark s".

Go back and look at all of my posts, they are all backed with scriptures, which you simply ignore. For example, You said to read Romans 4-8, i agreed and showed you the verses therein that speak of the holiness doctrine, but you failed to interact with this. You see Paul, and all the apostles preached holiness (sanctification) as a part of the Christian life and it is what ties Paul and James together with the teachings of Christ. Those who teach Grace without holiness always have a problem with James, and the teachings of Jesus and over-emphasize Paul, as Great as he was they misconstrue and ignore the The Parts of Paul's teachings that deal with Holiness and only focus on what they like, so they focus on Ephesians 2:8-9, ignoring verse 10, which is the point I am trying to make. Never have you here addressed this point of scripture, yet you say you want to discuss the Bible. Why?

Instead you express insult and are offended.... Does the Word of God, the Truth of his word offend you? or the one presenting this here before you? All you are doing in ignoring the message is killing the messenger and making the messenger the excuse for why you can and should ignore the message. Do You understand this. In being offended by me you are making me the enemy, so you can ignore and not deal with the scripture that I have provided. You are unable to debate the topic at hand, so instead you attack the person presenting the topic.

So the real question still goes back to Holiness as a doctrine.... Not me as a person and my lack of tact in presenting the topic or how offended you are by how i present it. You have still failed to respond to this topic which is based on ample scripture.

 

[marks]

Those who teach Grace without holiness always have a problem with James,

Do you suppose that I don't think God intends us to live holy lives?

?

 

[marks]

Instead you express insult and are offended.... Does the Word of God, the Truth of his word offend you?

You're still doing it.

I point to what I feel is inappropriate. You call that being offended. And then you go one to imply that I'm offended at God's word.

No, I'm saying this kind of thing is neither correct nor productive.

If you want to interact about doctrine, then stop talking about me.

Much love!

 

[marks]

So the real question still goes back to Holiness as a doctrine....

Or, in the Biblical terminology, the renewing of the mind, which brings our outward visible state into accord with our internal new creation state.

Much love!

 

[marks]

which you simply ignore.

You don't know what I'm thinking actually. Whether I'm ignoring something, or choosing to respond later, or in another way than you are expecting.

Do you see this?

Much love!

 

[marks]

they misconstrue and ignore the The Parts of Paul's teachings that deal with Holiness and only focus on what they like, so they focus on Ephesians 2:8-9, ignoring verse 10, which is the point I am trying to make.

Ephesians 2:8-10 KJV
8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

OK . . . your view is that I ignore verse 10? Is that what you are saying?

Much love!

 

[marks]

All you are doing in ignoring the message is killing the messenger and making the messenger the excuse for why you can and should ignore the message. Do You understand this.

What I hope you will understand is that I have two concerns regarding you. One is that you seem to believe that we have not received what we need from God to live holy lives today. I heartly disagree with you about that.

And the other is that you have a tendency to turn the topic towards the person, instead of staying on the topic.

I attempt to address both. The more I address the first, the more I seem to run into the second.

What I hope is that you will come to see that if we walk in faith today, we can live holy lives today.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Go back and look at all of my posts, they are all backed with scriptures, which you simply ignore. For example, You said to read Romans 4-8, i agreed and showed you the verses therein that speak of the holiness doctrine, but you failed to interact with this. You see Paul, and all the apostles preached holiness (sanctification) as a part of the Christian life and it is what ties Paul and James together with the teachings of Christ. Those who teach Grace without holiness always have a problem with James, and the teachings of Jesus and over-emphasize Paul, as Great as he was they misconstrue and ignore the The Parts of Paul's teachings that deal with Holiness and only focus on what they like, so they focus on Ephesians 2:8-9, ignoring verse 10, which is the point I am trying to make. Never have you here addressed this point of scripture, yet you say you want to discuss the Bible. Why?

Instead you express insult and are offended.... Does the Word of God, the Truth of his word offend you? or the one presenting this here before you? All you are doing in ignoring the message is killing the messenger and making the messenger the excuse for why you can and should ignore the message. Do You understand this. In being offended by me you are making me the enemy, so you can ignore and not deal with the scripture that I have provided. You are unable to debate the topic at hand, so instead you attack the person presenting the topic.

So the real question still goes back to Holiness as a doctrine.... Not me as a person and my lack of tact in presenting the topic or how offended you are by how i present it. You have still failed to respond to this topic which is based on ample scripture.

This part that I've bolded . . . this is the only part I see in this post that actually discusses our topic.

And I agree fully with this statement.

Much love!

 

[David H.]

You're still doing it.

I point to what I feel is inappropriate. You call that being offended. And then you go one to imply that I'm offended at God's word.

No, I'm saying this kind of thing is neither correct nor productive.

If you want to interact about doctrine, then stop talking about me.

Your "being offended" is not allowing you to interact with the scripture given..... You keep reverting to this childish offended attitude instead of addressing the topic at hand, and in these seven responses and the twelve or so before this you have said little to nothing scriptural to support your position, only repeated the same "leftist" cancel culture language.... I Know you are not a leftist, so please stop using their tactics...

Or, in the Biblical terminology, the renewing of the mind, which brings our outward visible state into accord with our internal new creation state.

Holiness IS Biblical terminology, the Word is found in Romans 6:19 which is hagiasmos The KJV Translates this word as Holiness the modern versions as sanctification, which is progressive sanctification. This is the second work of Grace which the author of this post does not believe is for everyone who believes only for those who are called to "discipleship". Renewing the mind is only a small aspect of the holiness doctrine.

You don't know what I'm thinking actually. Whether I'm ignoring something, or choosing to respond later, or in another way than you are expecting.

Do you see this?

I Know when I see "duck dodgers" at work.... Yes that is a daffy duck reference....

OK . . . your view is that I ignore verse 10? Is that what you are saying?

My View is that there is a whole segment of evangelical Christianity that does, which begins with posts like this that deny the second work of Grace in our lives and make that a requirement of only those called to discipleship and to be a nicoliatan priestly class.... You see this problem is not only in the Catholic church but in the evangelical ones and is perpetuated by big name theologians who are evangelicals. Where you fall is still To be determined But it is questions and statements like the one below ( In Bold text) that make me believe you are leaning towards denying the call to Holiness.

What I hope you will understand is that I have two concerns regarding you. One is that you seem to believe that we have not received what we need from God to live holy lives today. I heartly disagree with you about that.

And the other is that you have a tendency to turn the topic towards the person, instead of staying on the topic.

I attempt to address both. The more I address the first, the more I seem to run into the second.

What I hope is that you will come to see that if we walk in faith today, we can live holy lives today.

We need to as believers reach repentence.... 2 Peter 3:9.... chōreō eis metanoia The Word Choreo means to make room for it is rooted in spatial relationships, To make room for repentance is what this is saying. repentance begins the second work of Grace, which is the sanctification unto holiness Hagiasmos, to deny this is for all is to perpetuate the laodicean mindset, and to empower the Nicolaitan priestly class, which is what Jesus hates.... literally. We are all called to become a royal priesthood, not just a select few.... do you believe this? Which means we are all called to Holiness and the second work of Grace in our lives... Do You believe this? Or do you deny the second work of Grace and still stand on the fact that you have already all you need of Christ Jesus? Or do you hunger and to see more of Jesus in your life?

 

[marks]

@David H.

Do you believe that you can live santified now, today, by trusting Jesus to make is so for you, now, today?

I've never been able to find your answer to this question.

Much love!