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Has the RCC changed?

Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by brakelite, Nov 10, 2018 at 1:59 AM.

  1. brakelite

    brakelite Well-Known Member

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    Has the Catholic church changed regarding religious freedom? Various pronouncements by recent popes suggest she has changed since the days of the dark ages, and if true, that can only be a good thing. What concerns me though is the fact that persecution by Catholics against those who disagreed with papal authority and doctrine, was not just the incidental practice of a few bad apples.

    Described as one of Catholicisms greatest theologians, a 'doctor' of the church, Thomas Aquinas, dubbed a saint, wrote the following which suggests strongly that persecution against heretics, rather than the rare occasion, was in fact church policy, and remained so for a very long time.

    “With regard to heretics two elements are to be considered, one element on their side, and the other on the part of the church. On their side is the sin whereby they have deserved, not only to be separated from the church by excommunication, but also to be banished from the world by death. For it is a much heavier offense to corrupt the faith, whereby the life of the soul is sustained, than to tamper with the coinage, which is an aid to temporal life. Hence if coiners or other malefactors are at once handed over by the secular princes to a just death, much more may heretics, immediately they are convicted of heresy, be not only excommunicated, but also justly done to die. But on the part of the church is mercy in view of the conversion of them that err; and therefore she does not condemn at once, but ‘after the first and second admonition,’ as the apostle teaches. After that, however, if the man is still found pertinacious, the church, having no hope of his conversion, provides for the safety of others, cutting him off from the church by the sentence of excommunication; and further she leaves him to the secular tribunal to be exterminated from the world by death.”
     
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  2. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

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    Nice TRY - but St. Thomas Aquinas wasn't the Pope. Neither was he even a bishop.
    He was a Dominican friar who was entitled to his own opinions - and that is ALL you have presented - his opinions.

    If you bothered to actually R*E*A*D what you posted about him - you would recognize that this is his opinion - and NOT official Church practice. The Church's role here was EXCOMMUNICATION. The "Apostle" Aquinas was referring to is Paul, who preached on this.

    Excommunication
    simply rendered the person no longer protected by the Church because they were cut off.
    Execution for heresy was ALWAYS as matter of state because they were considered rabble-rousers. This was bad for the economy because it destabilized the commoners of kingdoms. . .
     
  3. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    i guess simply observing the humongous load of guilt most Catholics seem to live with pretty much verifies the pov? i have Catholic friends in Flint that tell stories about the walking around on eggshells all of the time, devout mom still calling them to add a load every week or so, etc.

    I got along with her quite well at first, until it became apparent that i could not be converted or guilted i guess. Or i mean i still get along with her fine, but her attitude toward me has changed, and there really was no scene or certain exchange or anything, we never had that much interaction

    so, she is the only one in the fam that has been to any masses in years, if the RCC has changed their guilt policy it sure hasn't trickled down to her though
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2018 at 3:37 PM
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  4. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Can the leopard change his spots or the Ethiopian his skin? The predatory Catholic Church will never change.

    Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil. (Jer 13:23)
     
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  5. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Active Member

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    Reeve revelations. It will shed the Christian disguise and revert to its roman pagan roots.
     
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  6. brakelite

    brakelite Well-Known Member

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    You will find I believe things will not be quite that simple. She is the first beast. The second beast is the one that exams her to power and enforcing her mark... It is that second beast who forms am image to the first. This is not a statue. The first beast, the papacy, is a union of church and state. The second beast will also become a union of church and state. Religious freedom will then fly out the window.
     
  7. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Active Member

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    The Harlot is the RCC reverted back to pagan roman emperor worship, which it never truly left behind.

    The beast on the shore is the AC demon out of the sea of people in the EU.

    The beast out of the Pit is a demon of the false prophet.

    The dragon is a Satan who will enter the image of the AC and the temple and giving the appearance of life.

    Revelation 16:13 New International Version (NIV)
    13 Then I saw three impure spirits that looked like frogs; they came out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
     
  8. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

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    YOUR problem is that ALL Protestantism sects HAVE changed their teachings over the years.
    This is a telltale sign of a FALSE church.

    On the other hand - the Catholic Church has NEVER changed a doctrine in its 2000 year history.
    God doesn't change - and neither should the doctrines of His Church change . . .
     
  9. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    Assumption of Mary, Transubstantiation: examples of what was added to what Scripture says, centuries later. (There are a lot more.)
     
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  10. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

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    Doctrines developed - but NONE has changed.

    Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide are Protestant doctrines that developed - yet are NOT supported in Scripture.
    They were proclaimed 1500 years AFTER Christ ascended to the Father.
     
  11. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    :rolleyes:
    bc the Assumption and Transubstantiation are good things, right
     
  12. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

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    Truth is always a good thing.
    Why are you asking?
     
  13. epostle

    epostle Active Member

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    The notion that all beliefs and practices must be explicitly found in scripture to be valid IS NOT IN SCRIPTURE!!!
    It is a man made tradition!!!

    The Catholic Church defines doctrinal development as a growth of depth and clarity in the understanding of the truths of divine revelation. It is important to understand that the substantial or essential truths at the core of each doctrine remain unchanged. Only the subjective grasp of men increases. This increase is the result of the prayerful reflection of the Church, theological study and research (often occasioned by heretical challenges), practical experience, and the collective wisdom of the Church’s bishops and popes, especially when joined in Ecumenical Councils.

    Like many Christian doctrines, the idea of doctrinal development is based on much implicit or indirect scriptural evidence. The best indications are perhaps Mt. 5:17, 13:31-2, Jn. 14:26, 16:13, 1 Cor. 2:9-16, Gal. 4:4, Eph. 1:10, 4:12-15. Furthermore, doctrine clearly develops within Scripture (“progressive revelation”). Examples: doctrines of the afterlife, the Trinity, the Messiah (eventually revealed as God the Son), the Holy Spirit (Divine Person in the New Testament), the equality of Jews and Gentiles, bodily resurrection, sacrifice of lambs evolving into the sacrifice of Christ, etc.
    Not a single doctrine emerges in the Bible complete with no further need of development.

    Development of Doctrine: A Corruption of Biblical Teaching?
     
  14. epostle

    epostle Active Member

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    By and large, Protestantism merely asserts “sola Scriptura” without much consideration of the seriously-flawed implications of the same, and judges all doctrines accordingly. Therefore, those which are deemed to be either outright unbiblical or insufficiently grounded in Scripture to be authoritative, are jettisoned: the Marian doctrines, Purgatory, Penance, the papacy, etc. Apart from the question of Tradition as a legitimate carrier (alongside and in harmony with Scripture) of Christian belief, much more biblical support can be found in Scripture for these “Catholic” doctrines than Protestants suppose.

    One simply needs to become familiar with Catholic biblical apologetic arguments. The idea of doctrinal development is a key, in any case, for understanding why the Catholic Church often appears on the surface as fundamentally different than the early Church. Thoughtful Protestants owe it to themselves and intellectual honesty to ponder this indispensable notion before lashing out at the allegedly “unbiblical excesses” of Catholicism.

    Development of Doctrine: A Corruption of Biblical Teaching?
     
  15. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    The Lord Jesus Himself regarded the Scriptures as normative:

    "Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God." (MAtthew 22.29)
     
  16. epostle

    epostle Active Member

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    Jesus makes a distinction, you make a unity.
    Whenever Jesus quotes scripture, He teaches it, He doesn't let scripture speak for itself. Your verse doesn't support a non-existing premise.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2018 at 8:55 PM
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