Have All The Signs Been Filled To Expect A Rapture Any Day?

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Grapplerforchrist

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Aug 3, 2010
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Hello everyone, Im kinda new to christianity. Was saved a little over a month ago.

I read the Bible. And have learned a WHOLEEE lot by going to church and just learning. But im very interested in prophecy now, and would like to know what signs need to be filled or if they have already all been filled to expect a coming rapture.

What has been filled so far? And what is left?

It sais beggining of sorrows (sorrows trans- birth pangs) So beggining of birth pangs correct? And what are the birth pangs mentioned. And the beggining of them wouldnt require them to be in full motion right?

Kinda confused.. Help plz.
 

Paul

Member
Aug 19, 2006
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Hello everyone, Im kinda new to christianity. Was saved a little over a month ago.

I read the Bible. And have learned a WHOLEEE lot by going to church and just learning. But im very interested in prophecy now, and would like to know what signs need to be filled or if they have already all been filled to expect a coming rapture.

What has been filled so far? And what is left?

It sais beggining of sorrows (sorrows trans- birth pangs) So beggining of birth pangs correct? And what are the birth pangs mentioned. And the beggining of them wouldnt require them to be in full motion right?

Kinda confused.. Help plz.

yes, you are "kinda confused," but, unfortunatly many members on this board are. There is NO rapture gfc. It has been discussed on the board many times. Towards the top of thye page there is a place called "search," type the word "rapture" in that space and you will see page upon page of posts on the subject. Read through some of them, you might even want to read: http://biblicalrapture.net/
 

Grapplerforchrist

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Aug 3, 2010
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yes, you are "kinda confused," but, unfortunatly many members on this board are. There is NO rapture gfc. It has been discussed on the board many times. Towards the top of thye page there is a place called "search," type the word "rapture" in that space and you will see page upon page of posts on the subject. Read through some of them, you might even want to read: http://biblicalrapture.net/


So first comes the anti christ and then the rapture. Ohhhh gotcha.. So when he comes many who believe in the pre-trib will be decieved. WHich is why the very elect will be decieved it sais.

WOW. Thanks.
 

Paul

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Aug 19, 2006
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So first comes the anti christ and then the rapture. Ohhhh gotcha.. So when he comes many who believe in the pre-trib will be decieved. WHich is why the very elect will be decieved it sais.

WOW. Thanks.

You are still confused as well as being confusing. Where does Scripture say the elect are deceived?
 

Grapplerforchrist

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Aug 3, 2010
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You are still confused as well as being confusing. Where does Scripture say the elect are deceived?


With me being confusing you are then turned as the confused one.

"For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect" Mark 13:22 (KJV)

Does this mean its impossible for the elect to be decieved? Or does it mean some will be?
 

Paul

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Aug 19, 2006
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With me being confusing you are then turned as the confused one.

"For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect" Mark 13:22 (KJV)

I am confused by you not by Scripture.

Quote from your post: "WHich is why the very elect will be decieved it sais."

But the elect are not deceived. "if it were possible" is a hypothetical condition.
 

brionne

Active Member
May 31, 2010
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Australia
Hello everyone, Im kinda new to christianity. Was saved a little over a month ago.

I read the Bible. And have learned a WHOLEEE lot by going to church and just learning. But im very interested in prophecy now, and would like to know what signs need to be filled or if they have already all been filled to expect a coming rapture.

What has been filled so far? And what is left?

It sais beggining of sorrows (sorrows trans- birth pangs) So beggining of birth pangs correct? And what are the birth pangs mentioned. And the beggining of them wouldnt require them to be in full motion right?

Kinda confused.. Help plz.

there are still some aspects of prophecy which are yet to be fulfilled. These have to do with the kings of the north and south of Daniels prophecy.
We know who the king of the south is but we are yet to see the identity of the king of the North. When these two kings come head to head, then it will culminate into the 'great tribulation'.....but not before the 10 horned wild beast of Revelation steps up a campaign against religious activity throughout the earth. It will begin with false religion being brought to its knees and then it will focus on Christs brothers, it is at that point which God will step in and the war of Armageddon will be fought.

But the rapture is not a biblical teaching and you should seriously look into it a bit more...there will be no rapture as those who teach it promote.
 

Grapplerforchrist

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Aug 3, 2010
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there are still some aspects of prophecy which are yet to be fulfilled. These have to do with the kings of the north and south of Daniels prophecy.
We know who the king of the south is but we are yet to see the identity of the king of the North. When these two kings come head to head, then it will culminate into the 'great tribulation'.....but not before the 10 horned wild beast of Revelation steps up a campaign against religious activity throughout the earth. It will begin with false religion being brought to its knees and then it will focus on Christs brothers, it is at that point which God will step in and the war of Armageddon will be fought.

But the rapture is not a biblical teaching and you should seriously look into it a bit more...there will be no rapture as those who teach it promote.

Oh ok I see.

And what do you mean by that? Do you mean we just dont know when it will take place? Or that it wont happen?

Explain.
 

Paul

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Aug 19, 2006
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Oh ok I see.

And what do you mean by that? Do you mean we just dont know when it will take place? Or that it wont happen?

Explain.


I think we are talking about different things. What do you think about when you use the word "rapture?"
 

brionne

Active Member
May 31, 2010
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Australia
Oh ok I see.

And what do you mean by that? Do you mean we just dont know when it will take place? Or that it wont happen?

Explain.

the rapture is not a biblical teaching at all. It wont happen the way its been explained by those who teach it.

The teaching of the “rapture” doesn't appear in the Bible. But those who believe in it cite the apostle Paul’s words at 1 Thessalonians 4:17 as the basis for their belief:

VS 17 "Afterward we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we shall always be with [the] Lord"

But when this passage is read in its full context, the subject that paul was addressing was in fact the chosen ones who died in his day.
VS 13: “Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant concerning those who are sleeping in death; that you may not sorrow just as the rest also do who have no hope. For if our faith is that Jesus died and rose again, so, too, those (chosen ones) who have fallen asleep in death through Jesus God will bring with him..."

Christians were being persecuted and killed back in the first century and Paul was comforting those still alive with the words that these ones, even though they have died, will still be taken to heaven to be with Jesus therefore they need not be overly grieved for them.

In Vs 15 he explains that during the time of the Lords Presence (which was well into the future at that stage) all those of the chosen who had died will recieve their resurrection to heaven first.
VS 15 "...we the living who survive to the presence of the Lord shall in no way precede those who have fallen asleep [in death]; 16 because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first..."

then finally Paul says that the remaining chosen ones who are alive at that time of Armageddon will be instantly taken to heaven to be with Christ...but its certainly not going to be many christians who go.
17 Afterward we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we shall always be with [the] Lord. 18 Consequently keep comforting one another with these words."

So this is only pertaining to the 'chosen ones' and the number of them are very small...according to Revelation they number only 144,000. Since the time of the 1st Century, these ones have been getting chosen by God to take a seat in the heavenly kingdom with Christ. They are the ones who are 'born again' because they have to die and be resurrected with new spiritual bodies. The majority are already in heaven because the Lords presence began in the year 1914 according to bible chronology, which means the resurrection of these ones began back then.


With regard to when armageddon will take place, we dont know. We know what events will happen just before it begins so its important that we keep watching for the signs, but we cannot state a day or time for armageddon, no.
 

veteran

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Aug 6, 2010
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Oh ok I see.

And what do you mean by that? Do you mean we just dont know when it will take place? Or that it wont happen?

Explain.

Let me try to help if I can. The word "rapture" is from a Latin rendering of the Greek word harpazo ("caught up" in 1 Thess.4:17). The "trump of God" sounds that event per 1 Thess.4:16, which is the same "last trump" Paul mentioned in 1 Corinthians 15. Both of those are about the time of Christ's coming, bringing the 'asleep' saints with Him, while those of us still on earth are 'changed' at the "twinkling of an eye" to resurrection bodies. Then we all are joined to Him where He comes to, the Mount of Olives in Jerusalem (Zechariah 14). That is what Apostle Paul called the gathering to Christ in 2 Thessalonians 2. It happens on the 'day of the LORD'.

Yet, our Lord Jesus gave us specific SIGNS to be watching that LEAD UP TO THAT TIME.

In Mark 13, Matthew 24, and Luke 17 & 21, our Lord Jesus gave us 7 specific types of signs that go with info given in the 7 seals of Revelation 6.

Starting at the end of Revelation 8, our Lord gave us three WOE periods to note. The last three trumpets are linked to those three woe periods, showing the 5th, 6th, and 7th trumpets sound in order. On the 7th trumpet - 3rd woe is Christ's coming per Revelation 11.

We all should be looking at the events given within those three trumpet - woe periods real hard today. They are some of the most difficult Scriptures within God's Word to understand, especially for those who haven't studied all of God's Word to any real depth. Ask me, and I'll help anyone in it that is interested.



 

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Apr 2, 2009
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Hello everyone, Im kinda new to christianity. Was saved a little over a month ago.

I read the Bible. And have learned a WHOLEEE lot by going to church and just learning. But im very interested in prophecy now, and would like to know what signs need to be filled or if they have already all been filled to expect a coming rapture.

What has been filled so far? And what is left?

It sais beggining of sorrows (sorrows trans- birth pangs) So beggining of birth pangs correct? And what are the birth pangs mentioned. And the beggining of them wouldnt require them to be in full motion right?

Kinda confused.. Help plz.

Since you have expressed an interest in studying the Christian apocalpyse, I must begin by advising you to walk carefully.

The subject can be a mine field.

To begin, Jesus cautioned us to BE READY. He also said that he would return at a time we did not expect.
Even Jesus didn't know when He'd be back.

Therefore, when you read stuff from people who claim to have an idea as to days and times of the second coming you can automatically assume that they don't have a clue as to what they're talking about.

One of the mines in the field in the subject of the rapture. The whole concept is bogus and should be avoided like the plague.
I have personally dumped the subject from my present and future lines of study. I have lost good friends because a discussion about the rapture became heated. The reader would be well advised to abandon the subject completely.

Why? Two reasons.
1. The dogma of the rapture does nothing to edify the body of believers. It is divisive, inconclusive, and nebulous at best.
2. There is absolutely NOTHING that any of us can do about it.

With regard to the general concept of the Christian apocalypse, your study should follow a few guidlines.

Read books - Do not rely completely on chats and blogs. Most posts here are undocumented and unsubstantiated opinion. That's good for pleasant conversation at the computer terminal, at a coffee shop gathering, or when a few good friends help you down a pitcher of beer. It is NOT good if you really want to learn what scholars have culled from the Word and the World. READ

Read the Bible - Oddly the book seems to have the best presentation about what's coming and how to prepare for it. Read it for yourself, pray for interpretation and then seek the answers from others. I've found that the consensus of opinion about any particular thing is usually (not always, but usually) the best understanding.

Hollywood lies - The productions that come out of Hollywood for feature films and TV are adapted for drama and profit. Never forget that. If a thing will sell, then you'll see it come out of Hollywood. If a story won't sell, then you probably won't hear of it at all. Remember Hollywood is all about $how Bu$ine$$. Nothing sells like a good lie.

Finally, you are no doubt aware that the majority of opinions and literature about the second coming all have one thing in common; expectancy. Something is in the wind these days. Something big. Everyone feels it even if they can't put their finger on what's happening. The study of the Christian apocalypse will be of great help in putting a few of the puzzle pieces together.

But when these things begin to come to pass, look up, and lift up your heads; because your redemption draweth nigh.
Luk 21:28
 

Paul

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Aug 19, 2006
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Since you have expressed an interest in studying the Christian apocalpyse, I must begin by advising you to walk carefully.
...

Therefore, when you read stuff from people who claim to have an idea as to days and times of the second coming you can automatically assume that they don't have a clue as to what they're talking about.
...


So rj, what do you make of this verse? "Mar 13:23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things. "

I expect you will come back with: "Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. " And if you use this verse take a long look at the word "knoweth." The word, as used here means "intuitive knowledge." We do not know the information intuitively but it does NOT mean we can't study and learn the information.
 

Raphael

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Jul 12, 2010
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Question: Is the existence of a Rapture (whether pre-, mid-, or post-Tribulation) a minority or majority view in the Church as a whole?
 

Paul

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Question: Is the existence of a Rapture (whether pre-, mid-, or post-Tribulation) a minority or majority view in the Church as a whole?


The rapture is not Scriptural, majority view or not. There is no "rapture" if by the word "rapture" you are talking about some imminent disappearance of Christians.
 

omnicopy

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Aug 14, 2010
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The rapture is not Scriptural, majority view or not. There is no "rapture" if by the word "rapture" you are talking about some imminent disappearance of Christians.


Most of the churches call it the rapture, that is what we learn in churches. The bible doesn't really ever use that word. The bible calls it a "mystery". I think the "mystery" happens in Revelation 10:7 at the last trumpet.

What do you think? Could it happen there?

Kim
 

fivesense

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Mar 7, 2010
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Most of the churches call it the rapture, that is what we learn in churches. The bible doesn't really ever use that word. The bible calls it a "mystery". I think the "mystery" happens in Revelation 10:7 at the last trumpet.
What do you think? Could it happen there?
Kim

Hi Kim. There is a lot of advice here for you from others. I only offer this and I am afraid it may be drudgery, but look at these passages where the Greek word "harpazo" and its related forms are. You must decide for yourself what the word means and how you feel God is trying to speak to you. I have underlined them for you to assist. I know it is easier to just rely on others for truth, but I am asking you to look for yourself, and seek God's approval of you.

Mt 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

Mt 12:29 'Or how is one able to go into the house of the strong man, and to plunder his goods, if first he may not bind the strong man? and then his house he will plunder.

Mt 13:19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth [it] not, then cometh the wicked [one], and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

Jn 6:15 . When Jesus therefore perceived that they would come and take him by force, to make him a king, he departed again into a mountain himself alone.

Jn 10:12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.

Jn 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.

Jn 10:29 My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father's hand.

Ac 8:39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

Ac 23:10 And when there arose a great dissension, the chief captain, fearing lest Paul should have been pulled in pieces of them, commanded the soldiers to go down, and to take him by force from among them, and to bring [him] into the castle.

2C 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

2C 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

Ju 1:23 And others save with fear, pulling [them] out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

Re 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and [to] his throne.

1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

As you can see, the Common Version uses many interpretations of one Greek word, which causes much confusion. It appears that "snatch" or snatching" or "snatching away" is the best idiomatic rendering. It fits in all the passages and makes a great deal of sense this way. However, you must decide for yourself.

Our change from the death state, to resurrection, to spiritual beings like He is, is instantaneous. It happens in clouds, not on the earth. Those of the former resurrection arise to life on earth, of which we have no part in, as we are heavenly citizens, even at this moment. We shall never return to earth as physical beings once we have been changed in the blink of an eye.

fivesense
 

veteran

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Aug 6, 2010
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grapplerforchrist,

Try to be careful in conversations with other believers with the word "rapture". Our Lord Jesus gave us specific endtime events to be watching leading up to His return and our gathering to Him. His Apostles did also, 2 Thessalonians 2 being a major hint.

The Pre-tribulational "secret rapture" was an idea that came out of 1830's Great Britain. It preaches a 'rapture' of the saints prior to the tribulation. The early Church prior to the 1800's never held to that Pre-trib idea.

The Post-tribulational school treats the rapture as happenning after the great tribulation. This may include many who don't use the word "rapture", but call it simply the gathering to Christ (like Apostle Paul did in 2 Thess.2).

Then there are schools that preach a rapture at various times in-between the pre-trib and post-trib.

The timing of Christ's coming and our gathering is an important Biblical Truth that our Lord Jesus wants us to understand. That's why He gave us the signs leading up to it. It's especially because He is going to send a major trap upon the deceived who don't listen to Him in His Word, for in the last days, for that trap will be upon the deceived of believers and non-believers alike.

There also is a mystery of what happens at Christ's coming, the resurrection, and our gathering to Him. Since God's Heavenly Abode exists behind a vail today that we cannot see, it's been customary to think our gathering to Christ will be where the Heavenly is today. Most treat the Heavenly as being somewhere in the clouds above or away from this earth. The 1 Thess.4:16-17 Scripture has especially led many to that view. The Pre-trib view especially relies on that idea, being raptured to Heaven while the unsaved peoples are left-behind here on earth to suffer God's wrath. That's not what God's Word actually teaches though.

Instead, God's Word teaches that our gathering to Christ is to Jerusalem on earth, where it is written in Zechariah 14. The idea of being "caught up" is in reality about those in Christ alive on earth being changed at the twinkling of an eye to the ressurection type body, and then being gathered to Christ in that type body. John 5 also shows everyone, and I mean the unjust too, will go through that resurrection change. The difference is that the wicked will be in a place of separation outside the "camp of the saints" and "beloved city" (Jerusalem with Christ in Person on earth). Understanding that is a problem with many Post-trib believers too.

We have the Victory in Christ Jesus. This earth is our inheritance with Christ, and we don't have to go off it to inherit it. It's the wicked that are going to be consumed off it, as testified in Psalms 37.
 

HeroOfGod

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Aug 11, 2010
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Well the answer is yes. We are now waiting for the "SUDDEN DESTRUCTION" which will probably happen simultaneously or right after the rapture. The Sudden destruction is for sure a nuclear warfare and it is getting closer and closer. Experts say it is now inevitable!

The Rapture takes place after the second year of the tribulation when there are five more years remaining. This means it will probably happen in the fall of 2010. Why ? Please read :

www.signsofthetimes777.webs.com

Thank You!
 

Paul

Member
Aug 19, 2006
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Well the answer is yes. We are now waiting for the "SUDDEN DESTRUCTION" which will probably happen simultaneously or right after the rapture. The Sudden destruction is for sure a nuclear warfare and it is getting closer and closer. Experts say it is now inevitable!

The Rapture takes place after the second year of the tribulation when there are five more years remaining. This means it will probably happen in the fall of 2010. Why ? Please read :

www

Thank You!


Also read: http://biblicalrapture.net/