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brakelite
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If death is merely a separation from God, God being the only source of life, how can one be alive if thus separated?Death is SEPARATION.
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If death is merely a separation from God, God being the only source of life, how can one be alive if thus separated?Death is SEPARATION.
But God is merciful. The worms don't die so that the corpses stay visible as a reminder of they who rebelled against the Lord.
Sort of like a living war memorial.
1. It is the SECOND DEATH which is eternal separation from God.If death is merely a separation from God, God being the only source of life, how can one be alive if thus separated?
Why do you treat the idea of a "soul" as component of man, when the Bible plainly spells out what a "soul" is?
"God formed man of the Dust of the ground (Body),
breathed into his nostrils
the Breath of Life (Spirit of Life),
and man BECAME a Living Soul." Genesis 2:7
Body+ Spirit = Living Soul
Body - Spirit = Dead (non-existent) Soul
The Living Soul is comprised of the union of the two components: Body and God's Spirit.
There is simply no other way to understand Genesis 2:7, except if we allow false ideas to distort what God has made abundantly clear in this foundational verse.
The word of God is very clear in this matter, as I have explained in my review of dozens of verses - see my original post.
You have chosen to present lies. And to correct one of your lies, God is not sadistic for choosing not to annihilate. God is sovereign and just.
I quoted Episkopos, so I don't know why Enoch111 replied this way.Did you even understand what I said? Read it again.
Sorry if there was a misunderstanding, but you had a strange comment for one of my posts above.I quoted Episkopos, so I don't know why Enoch111 replied this way.
Excellent! I copied all 4 posts. I've been an annihilationist for 30 years, when I first read Bullinger. I've gotten to the point where I won't buy a Bible if it contains the word "hell". I can excuse the 1611 AV, because (as I understand it), when the word "hell" and/or "hel"were used to translate hades, the grave, those words simply meant "a covered place", instead of the pagan HELL lies of eternal torment, loved by preachers, world-wide, that brings big bucks in the offering plate. You wouldn't be a Baptist long if you told them you didn't believe in hell (or, for people today, water baptism, the Lord’s Supper, the Lord’s Prayer, the Great Commission, and the rapture, I might add).Conclusion
Annihilationists are often said to be “changing the plain meaning of the text”. I think, those who say this demonstrate an ignorance of their own interpretive process.
Any biblical doctrine will encounter some verses requiring harmonizing.
Annihilationists read “forever tormented” in Revelation 20:10 and we interpret it as meaning “destruction” and we give reasons why. Likewise Traditionalists read “destruction” in Matthew 7:13 and they interpret it as meaning “forever tormented” and they, in turn, need to give reasons why.
It is the quality of these reasons that should determine where one falls on this issue. I have no reasons to doubt a face value reading of the many passages in scripture that describe the fate of the unsaved as death, perishing, destruction, and that describe immortality as a gift for the saved alone.
Excellent! I copied all 4 posts. I've been an annihilationist for 30 years, when I first read Bullinger. I've gotten to the point where I won't buy a Bible if it contains the word "hell".
This sounds like a non sequitur. However Christ was never in Hell but in Sheol/Hades (big difference). Check the Hebrew and Greek texts for these verses.Then I'll ask the same question I did to the other two but got no answer. If that were the case (to play along) then why do you believe Christ is in hell and never raised from the dead?
Well, being an annihilationist doesn't mean Rev 20:15 won't come to pass.
Jesus spoke of "hell" ("Gehenna": which means "the valley of hinnom" - the Jerusalem city dump).I'm guessing you do not hold such accounts as authoritative, but those who have been taken to Hell in spirit say that the souls of the damned are in a constant state of decomposition yet their flesh never completely disappears. It's like being in a perpetual state of decay.
But out of curiosity, Episkopos, how does a worm not die and yet its host does? Seems to me that they either live together or die together. Do you spiritualize the expression or take it literally?
This sounds like a non sequitur. However Christ was never in Hell but in Sheol/Hades (big difference). Check the Hebrew and Greek texts for these verses.
For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell [SHEOL]; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. (Ps 16:10)
Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell [HADES], neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. (Acts 2:27)
And since He rose from the dead after 3 days and 3 nights in Hades, He is now in Heaven, along with all the OT saints, who were in Hades (Abraham's Bosom).
TruthIn Brief...The Scripture uses the TERM "DESTROY", in application To an UN-Saved soul, AND a Body that Shall Not Become Glorified.
That's what destruction is.Men "Tweak" the TERM destroy Destroy and say, Annhilate and Obliterate.
So, you'll agree that in the beginning "God stepped out onto nothing and spoke to nothing, and from nothing came forth everything"...but you cannot allow for the idea that God will blot out from existence everything that bears the mark of the curse of sin along with the wicked?In short; NOTHING God has created becomes Non-Existent! Gods creations are in the simplest Terms "matter". Make bricks, assemble them into a building, implode the building....it becomes destroyed; The materials / matter (bricks) do not Disappear....They become unrecognizable in Building Form...It is called DESTROYED, Because it is BEYOND REPAIR, FIXING, ADDING ANY IMPROVEMENT To it. The rubble, (bricks) again BECOME sand and dust of the earth....and the Form (building) that WAS made becomes no longer Visible to See, and Forgotten. And BE the Building a Church, having had the Word of God spoken, bells ringing, music and praises and worshiping unto the Lord...Will Cease....So ALSO, WILL CEASE....IS Gods Light Reflection and Presence with THAT which has Become Destroyed and Forgotten.
Correct, Genesis 2:7 says a "Living Soul" comes into existence as as a consequence of the union of the Body and God's Breath of Life. Ecclesiastes 12:7 is clear that at death, the Body returns to the dust and the Spirit (Breath of Life) returns to God. Concluding that at death our "Soul" flies off from our body to be with God is a total distortion/disregard of no less than two truths: (1) A Soul exists only as a union of the Body and Breath of Life, which at point of dissolution of these two the Soul ceases to exist, and (2) no "Soul" has ever been to heaven, so it cannot fly off from a dead body and "return" to heaven.God created human Bodily Forms from Dust of the Earth He created And Made Souls.
A Soul is not something that "enters a Body" - Genesis 2:7 is crystal clear that the Soul is a product/result/consequence of the union of the Body and the Breath of Life. Man doesn't "have" a Soul - Man IS a SoulOnce A Soul with God Breath enters a Body of man,
Once again, a Living Soul cannot exist except that the Body and the Breath of Life are united. At the dissolution of this union, the Living Soul ceases to exist. Why can't we accept that when a creature - whether a saint, a sinner, or any creature in the animal kingdom - is bereft of the Breath of Life, that Soul dies and ceases to be? This is why the Second Coming is called the "Blessed Hope" - hope for what? If we're already in heaven, then what's the big deal? But, if we've ceased to exist as the Bible plainly teaches, well, then the resurrection becomes the greatest hope of all humanity.All bodies Shall Die. Living souls with Gods Breath shall continue Living In Living Bodies or Continue Living Outside of Bodies that Have Ceased Living...
That's what annihilation is: total, complete destruction, which of the wicked "shall leave them neither root nor branch" - a proverb among the Hebrews for complete, total destruction aka annihilation.Men who are Against God....SHALL BE "DESTROYED", BODY and SOUL. Memory of their bodily Form; Memory of their soul, their thoughts, words, ideas, works, emotions, etc.; Completely Forgotten...and Remembered no more.
No, the Bible says the "Living Soul" IS a man...IS a man...IS a man, not a component of man.Why? Precisely because the Word of God reveals what IS Life IN and OF a "man".
Right, but this proves exactly what?Uh huh, a "man" is "CREATED" by Gods Hand BY Forming a "mans" BODY, from Dust. What IS the LIFE of that body? Blood. How do I KNOW? Gods Word. Gen 9:4
For the purposes of defining what is a Soul - the union of the Body and the Breath of Life (Genesis 2:7 - it is not necessary to emphasize, as you do, the "blood" - the word "Body" is the umbrella term that refers to all physiological aspects of the Body, including the blood. By doing so, you're allowing yourself to get off the plainly charted course that is Genesis 2:7 - that the Living Soul comes into existence and can only exist as a consequence of the union of the Body and the Breath of Life.Body, created, called man. Body with Living soul, and flowing Blood, called a Living man.
Let's stick with Scripture, shall we? James says a dead man is "the body without the Spirit". That's exactly what I've been trying to tell you: that a Living Soul is the union of the Body and the Breath of Life and a Dead Soul is the dissolution of that union, just as James says.Body without flowing Blood, called a physically dead man. Living body, with Living soul, NOT WITH GOD, is called DEAD. Saved Living soul IS WITH GOD, whether or not his body is living.
Why do you have to keep rearranging Genesis 2:7 when it is already succinct? Yes, the vessel that God creates is the Living Soul, which is the union of the Body and the Breath of Life, and that vessel ceases to be when His Spirit is gathered from it back to Him.The body IS a Vessel God has CREATED.
....Its LIFE IS BLOOD.
The soul IS a Vessel God has MADE.
....Its LIFE IS GODS BREATH.
Finally, the monumental error of Christianity is plainly stated here: the belief that the Living Soul and the Breath of Life are one in the same. THIS IS NOT THE CASE.Body....Life BLOOD. Soul.....Life GODS BREATH
Hell is Forever - Punishment, Torment or Torture - You Would Not Cease to Exist
In this recording, I review related verses in the Holy Bible (ESV)
In my review of dozens of verses, see my original post, I show that your statements are false. Hell is eternal.