Hellfire and brimstone has given way to eternal separation from God. - Why?

[Aunty Jane]

Can hell be cast into hell, Jack?

What does it mean “the second death”…..please explain….

You never answer the difficult questions…..I guess because you have no script for that……just a list of the same scriptures that you misquote at every opportunity…..with no understanding as to what they meant when they were written.

Tell us please Jack…what is “the second death”…..because scripture says it is “the lake of fire”….?
So, if “death and hell” are cast into this lake, can it be literal? Can hell be cast into a literal fire? Think about it…..

 

[Jack]

Hard to imagine anything so cruel and sadistic. But you are all for it.
What's wrong with this picture?

If you want to call God of the Bible cruel and sadistic that's your problem, a BIG problem for you.

 

[Jack]

Okay. Try this on for size.

Anyone who has knees to bow and a tongue to speak, in heaven and on earth and under the earth (in the realm of the dead), will whole-heartedly, and without reservation, acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord. No one can say that “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit. If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” you will be saved. Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. (the reason for the bodily resurrection) Scriptural support below.

Philippians 2:10-11
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says,
“Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart
that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that
he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11 from Strong's Concordance
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).

Further reading: Isaiah 45:23; Romans 14:11; Revelation 15:4

/

Christians don't chop out HUGE parts of the Bible they don't like. That's what messengers of Satan do. Have you read Revelation?

 

[Jack]

Not avoiding it at all…I have given you the explanation but you disregard it…that is your choice.

What is the “torment” that goes on forever?
That word translated as “tormented” has as its primary definition…

1. “to test (metals) by the touchstone, which is a black siliceous stone used to test the purity of gold or silver by the colour of the streak produced on it by rubbing it with either metal”

So, The expression “will be tormented” here translates the Greek verb “basanízo”. This verb is derived from the Greek noun “básanos”, which was a Lydian stone by which gold was tried. When pure gold was rubbed against it it left a yellow streak. Hence básanos came to mean “touchstone”, and then “examination, test, trial of genuineness”, and, when applied to humans under examination, “inquiry by torture,” and then just “torture, torment” from various causes. Because in ancient times the prison keepers or jailers were the ones to apply this torture of prisoners under examination, the jailers came to be called basanistés, as at Matthew 18:34….
““And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him.”

It means exactly what it says, "tormented day and night forever and ever", not what Kingdom Hall says it means.

The scriptures you quote are misinterpreted and then misapplied…..the torment is figurative…..being trapped in eternal death forever is exactly what that punishment is. God has no need or desire to torture anyone forever with no way out. What is the point? Punishment for its own sake accomplishes what?

Figurative? One of Kingdom Hall's favs when attacking the Christian Bible!

Unless you are a student of God’s word, versed in original meanings of the words as they are used in scripture, not in church doctrine, you might have something to say about the verses you misquote….
But for now, all I can say is that your ignorance is showing…..not to mention a dogged determination not to be proven wrong.

You're a student of Kingdom Hall, the hallway of DARKNESS!

The fact that you relish the torture that you think God will dish out, and wish it on others who disagree with your version of things, is telling…..

Actually I don't know of any Scripture that Kingdom Hall puppets don't twist the Hell out of.

We will let Jesus do his job…he is the judge, not you or me.…and not many are going to pass muster in the end. (Matt 7:13-14; 21-23) So we better be sure about what we accept as truth…..the devil is a deceiver, but you think you are somehow immune…..time will tell.

Twist this JW:

Matthew 25:41-46
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life."

Exact same Greek Word, EVERLASTING, NEVER ending! You've been duped by Kingdom Hall!

 

[Jack]

Are you claiming that you are BETTER than those you are sending to hell?

/

Do you read your own posts? lol

Bible choppers send themselves to Hell.

 

[TheHC]

Figurative?

Yes.
Revelation 20:13,14….
“Death and hell were cast / thrown into the Lake of Fire”

How do you ‘burn’ death? What could that mean?

 

[Aunty Jane]

It means exactly what it says, "tormented day and night forever and ever", not what Kingdom Hall says it means.

I keep telling you that the Kingdom Hall is a building….it does not teach us anything…..do you have a comprehension problem, or are we seeing exactly what Jesus and his apostles encountered from the Jews who didn’t like what he was saying about their leaders?….and teaching from their scripture what their leaders never taught them? History is repeating Jack.

Figurative? One of Kingdom Hall's favs when attacking the Christian Bible!

What Christian Bible is that….the one that belongs in a museum?
Many things are figurative in the Bible…like all of Jesus’ parables…..have you ever read the Bible yourself?
Your replies indicate that you have a set script and that when questions are asked of you, you can’t answer because it’s not in your script….you are so out of your depth in these discussions…please stop embarrassing yourself.

You're a student of Kingdom Hall, the hallway of DARKNESS!

That’s hilarious….you are such a drama queen….If you have never set foot inside a Kingdom Hall, how would you know it’s dark? I found all the churches to be much darker….and I went and looked and listened for myself. I found nothing but light when I left the church and studied the Bible for myself…you should try it sometime.

Actually I don't know of any Scripture that Kingdom Hall puppets don't twist the Hell out of.

Twist this JW:

Matthew 25:41-46
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life."

Exact same Greek Word, EVERLASTING, NEVER ending! You've been duped by Kingdom Hall!

Again…same old script….you concentrate on the wrong word…..eternal death is an “everlasting punishment” you know….
Its a death from which no one can be resurrected. God has no need to punish the wicked with anything but death…..eliminated from existence…..never to be seen or heard again! What a wonderful prospect!

What did Jesus say about those who go to this place you call “hell”?
Here it is from the KJV…..just for you….

”And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.” (Matt 10:28)

God “DESTROYS” the souls in your “hell”. He does not torment them.

Where did God tell Adam that he would go if he sinned?
Try reading Genesis 3:19….is there any mention of heaven or hell?
And I’m still waiting to hear how “death and hell” can be thrown into the lake of fire….?

Are you waiting for someone to write you a new script?

 

[Jack]

Yes.
Revelation 20:13,14….
“Death and hell were cast / thrown into the Lake of Fire”

How do you ‘burn’ death? What could that mean?

Ask God. He said it. And He also said they would be "tormented day and night FOREVER and EVER".

 

[Jack]

It means exactly what it says, "tormented day and night forever and ever", not what Kingdom Hall says it means.

Figurative? One of Kingdom Hall's favs when attacking the Christian Bible!

You're a student of Kingdom Hall, the hallway of DARKNESS!

Actually I don't know of any Scripture that Kingdom Hall puppets don't twist the Hell out of.

Twist this JW:

Matthew 25:41-46
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life."

Exact same Greek Word, EVERLASTING, NEVER ending! You've been duped by Kingdom Hall!

JW's think Hell is funny???

Matthew 5:22
Whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire.

 

[Jack]

I keep telling you that the Kingdom Hall is a building….it does not teach us anything…..do you have a comprehension problem, or are we seeing exactly what Jesus and his apostles encountered from the Jews who didn’t like what he was saying about their leaders?….and teaching from their scripture what their leaders never taught them? History is repeating Jack.

I think Kingdom Hall preys on illiterates. The only other explanation would be demon possession.

What Christian Bible is that….the one that belongs in a museum?
Many things are figurative in the Bible…like all of Jesus’ parables…..have you ever read the Bible yourself?
Your replies indicate that you have a set script and that when questions are asked of you, you can’t answer because it’s not in your script….you are so out of your depth in these discussions…please stop embarrassing yourself.

That’s hilarious….you are such a drama queen….If you have never set foot inside a Kingdom Hall, how would you know it’s dark? I found all the churches to be much darker….and I went and looked and listened for myself. I found nothing but light when I left the church and studied the Bible for myself…you should try it sometime.

Again…same old script….you concentrate on the wrong word…..eternal death is an “everlasting punishment” you know….
Its a death from which no one can be resurrected. God has no need to punish the wicked with anything but death…..eliminated from existence…..never to be seen or heard again! What a wonderful prospect!

What did Jesus say about those who go to this place you call “hell”?
Here it is from the KJV…..just for you….

”And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.” (Matt 10:28)

God “DESTROYS” the souls in your “hell”. He does not torment them.

Where did God tell Adam that he would go if he sinned?
Try reading Genesis 3:19….is there any mention of heaven or hell?
And I’m still waiting to hear how “death and hell” can be thrown into the lake of fire….?

Are you waiting for someone to write you a new script?

You don't even know that your JW bible clearly teaches that Jesus is God and Hell fire is eternal.

Why did you totally evade Mt 25:46? You need permission from Kingdom Hall?

Matthew 25:46
46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life."

Pay attention for a change! Same Greek Word Aunty, NEVER ending! NEVER, NEVER!

 

[St. SteVen]

If you want to call God of the Bible cruel and sadistic that's your problem, a BIG problem for you.

Your problem is that you are claiming that God holds himself to a lower standard of behavior than he holds us to.
Are we allowed to incinerate our enemies? Wouldn't that be godly behavior according to you?

Jesus taught us that godly behavior is to love our enemies. What should he do with his own enemies then?



/

 

[St. SteVen]

Christians don't chop out HUGE parts of the Bible they don't like. That's what messengers of Satan do. Have you read Revelation?

That's another saw. Have you cut these out of your Bible?

Acts 3:21 NIV
Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets.

1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

Romans 11:32
For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Titus 2:11 ESV
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,

John 1:29 NIV
... The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said,
“Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

1 Timothy 4:10 NIV
That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God,
who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

1 John 4:14 NIV
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

Romans 5:15-16
But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man,
how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!
16 Nor can the gift of God be compared with the result of one man’s sin:
The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.

Romans 5:18-19 NIV
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

Colossians 1:19-20
For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

1 Timothy 2:1-6
I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people—
2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness.
3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior,
4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,
6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.

Romans 3:24 NIV
and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

Romans 9:16 NIV
It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.

James 2:13 NIV
... Mercy triumphs over judgment.

Ecclesiastes 12:14 NIV
For God will bring every deed into judgment,
including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil.

1 John 4:18 NIV
There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear,
because fear has to do with punishment.
The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

/

 

[St. SteVen]

Bible choppers send themselves to Hell.

Chapter and verse please.
I hope you aren't referring to Rev.
But I can straighten you out on that.
Bring it.

/

 

[Hobie]

I'm question the god that the church has presented us with.
An angry cosmic tyrant. You have given that caricature of a god cart blanche.
Matters not what it does. Is that the true loving God? Doubtful.

/

He wants what is good for us not evil, only Satan wants that...
Romans 8:28
And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

 

[Jack]

Your problem is that you are claiming that God holds himself to a lower standard of behavior than he holds us to.

I didn't claim anything. I quoted the Bible. Why does that upset you?

Are we allowed to incinerate our enemies? Wouldn't that be godly behavior according to you?

We are not God of the Bible who drowned all but 8 on Earth "making them an example".

Jesus taught us that godly behavior is to love our enemies. What should he do with his own enemies then?

View attachment 39833

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Attention!!! "We are not God of the Bible who drowned all but 8 on Earth "making them an example"."

 

[Jack]

That's another saw. Have you cut these out of your Bible?

Acts 3:21 NIV
Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets.

1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

Romans 11:32
For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Titus 2:11 ESV
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,

John 1:29 NIV
... The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said,
“Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

1 Timothy 4:10 NIV
That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God,
who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

1 John 4:14 NIV
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

Romans 5:15-16
But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man,
how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!
16 Nor can the gift of God be compared with the result of one man’s sin:
The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.

Romans 5:18-19 NIV
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

Colossians 1:19-20
For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

1 Timothy 2:1-6
I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people—
2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness.
3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior,
4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,
6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.

Romans 3:24 NIV
and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

Romans 9:16 NIV
It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.

James 2:13 NIV
... Mercy triumphs over judgment.

Ecclesiastes 12:14 NIV
For God will bring every deed into judgment,
including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil.

1 John 4:18 NIV
There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear,
because fear has to do with punishment.
The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

/

I know, you picks the parts of the Bible you like an attack the parts of the Bible you don't like. Wanna take my Bible challenge? Nobody has yet!

 

[Jack]

Chapter and verse please.
I hope you aren't referring to Rev.
But I can straighten you out on that.
Bring it.

/

You don't like what Jesus said in Rev?

Revelation 22:19
19 If anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

And that's exactly what you have been doing!

 

[St. SteVen]

I know, you picks the parts of the Bible you like an attack the parts of the Bible you don't like.

I could say the same about you, right? That saw cuts both ways. (in case you didn't understand the analogy)

/

 

[St. SteVen]

You don't like what Jesus said in Rev?

Revelation 22:19
19 If anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

And that's exactly what you have been doing!

How many scrolls in "this scroll of prophecy"? One.
How many in the whole Bible? At least one for each book.

Revelation 22:19 NIV
And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy,
God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life
and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.

/

 

[Jack]

I could say the same about you, right? That saw cuts both ways. (in case you didn't understand the analogy)

/

You'd be lying.