Here is why, as an Adventist, I believe America is in Trouble.

[quietthinker]

Let's see you provide proof God exists!

You know, if an unbeliever tells you "prove God is real"... what would you show them as being proof?




The SDA peoples are still clinging to the Law of Moses and don't understand the difference between the old covenant and the New Covenant. View attachment 41665

They are required to adhere to the policies of the SDA home office, otherwise they get dis-fellowshiped so for this reason most of these folks won't ever get it.

That's how it is for people in most churches in that their group believes certain things and the people are expected to tow the party line so to speak and if they don't then they are no longer welcome to remain in the group.

It's a very effective tactic of the enemy to use peer pressure to get people to conform as they are scared to not be a part of the group and become outcasts if they don't go along to get along and the group gives them the left foot of fellowship and kicks them out.

I am sorry for your fear BBJ

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

@Big Boy Johnson believes "portions of God's Word contains lies"

The Saturday peoples are the ones clinging to the old covenant and rejecting the New Covenant and Jesus as their High Priest

on the seventh day God rested from His works = Genesis 2:1-3

That's true...God most definitely rested from His Word on the 7th day.

the works were finished from the foundation of the world = Hebrews 4:3

No quarrel there, God knows the end from the beginning and had it all planned out.

c.) the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world = Revelation 13:8

That's absolutely true!

Where you have FAILED is you have no shown where the Lord in the New Covenant has required Christians to only rest and worship on Saturday

Seeing your FAILURE to prove anything here, would you like to back up and punt? Or do you want to try again?

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

I am sorry for your fear BBJ

I have NO fear because the Lord did not give me a spirit of fear but of power, love, and a sound mind! (2 Timothy 1:7)

 

[David in NJ]

The Saturday peoples are the ones clinging to the old covenant and rejecting the New Covenant and Jesus as their High Priest




That's true...God most definitely rested from His Word on the 7th day.




No quarrel there, God knows the end from the beginning and had it all planned out.




That's absolutely true!

Where you have FAILED is you have no shown where the Lord in the New Covenant has required Christians to only rest and worship on Saturday View attachment 41686

Seeing your FAILURE to prove anything here, would you like to back up and punt? Or do you want to try again? View attachment 41687

@Big Boy Johnson says: "Where you have FAILED is you have no shown where the Lord in the New Covenant has required Christians to only rest and worship on Saturday"

What i have SHOWN(LIGHT) from Scripture(LIGHT) is that the LORD Himself is the 7th DAY of REST for all who place their trust in HIM.

Pick and Choose where you will find REST....................Exodus 31:12-17 or John 3:16-18

The former 'saturday rest' speaks of HIM who would Come and be our Final REST = Matthew 5:17

Now that the MESSIAH has fulfilled ALL things HE said: "IT IS FINISHED"

Goodbye 'old covenant' and Praise GOD for the NEW Covenant of His BLOOD shed for you and me.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

What i have SHOWN(LIGHT) from Scripture(LIGHT) is that the LORD Himself is the 7th DAY of REST for all who place their trust in HIM.

But, you apparently forgot to put scripture references from the New Covenant where Jesus or His Apostles specifically said Christians are limited to resting and worshiping on Saturday only.

Why don't you post that up for us?

 

[Ziggy]

I'm not so much concerned regarding what day the government may enforce as a religious observance.
Rather I am concerned that they will try to remove the right to gather on any day in any public place, as doing so may "offend" others.

Deception and devices, reverse psychology is rampant in our world today.

Scenerio:
The church you have been attending for years has been quietly infiltrated by non-faith groups. They are wolves in sheeps clothing.
They sound like sheep, look like sheep, act like sheep, but their intentions are anything but unifying faith.
The sermons start litlle by little preaching about inclusiveness, that God accepts everyone regardless of their lifestyle.
Then you notice one day a rainbow flag flying from the marquis with a message of love and joy and peace, but God or Jesus isn't mentioned in the message.
Eventually people become a bit uncomfortable because the message being preached doesn't line up with scripture, who how the curch had been led all those years you attended.
So you decide to leave the church and find another aligned more closely to your beliefs.
But as time goes by, all the churches and all the denminations slowly and quietly become infiltrated with these wolves that look like sheep.
Some people decide they just won't go back because God isn't in the churches anymore.

One by one the churches close due to lack of attendence. Now what once was the social norm of going to church on whatever day, has now become a phenomenon.
Remember during covid it only took the fear of catching a cold to close down all the churches and not allow people to even gather in their cars 6 feet apart in the parking lots?

So while we ponder whether a religious institution of any denomination may be instituted, my concern is that while we are not paying attention to the devil's devices, we will lose all rights to peacably assembling in any church. Unless you conform to the world's religion.

Just my thoughts.
Hugs

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

I'm not so much concerned regarding what day the government may enforce as a religious observance.

When / where does the US government enforce any religious observances?

If they do, I'm not participating

 

[David in NJ]

But, you apparently forgot to put scripture references from the New Covenant where Jesus or His Apostles specifically said Christians are limited to resting and worshiping on Saturday only.

Why don't you post that up for us?

@Big Boy Johnson asks: "Why don't you post that up for us?"

Because that was NOT what i said and NOT what the Scriptures say under the New Covenant.

Pick and Choose where you will find REST....................Exodus 31:12-17 or John 3:16-18

BOTH speak of 'rest' but only one opens the Door to Heaven = Which one?

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Because that was NOT what i said and NOT what the Scriptures say under the New Covenant.

You are not representing the Saturday peoples very well... I'm sure the home office will be in touch!

Yes, one must get born again to initially received salvation... but one must enter in to the Lord and abide IN Christ in faith.

Hebrews 4:1-11
Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Saturday is not the New Covenant sabbath

 

[David in NJ]

You are not representing the Saturday peoples very well... I'm sure the home office will be in touch! View attachment 41704

Yes, one must get born again to initially received salvation... but one must enter in to the Lord and abide IN Christ in faith.

Hebrews 4:1-11
Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Saturday is not the New Covenant sabbath View attachment 41705

Saturday is not the New Covenant sabbath View attachment 41705

This is true but you have not proved it.

Which is why i asked everyone to PROVE IT from the GOSPEL where CHRIST said it.

The Irrevocable Evidence of Scripture is found in my posts and in your Bible.

 

[Ziggy]

When / where does the US government enforce any religious observances?

If they do, I'm not participating View attachment 41700

It's unconstitutional to do so.
Unless Congress passes an Amendment to the Constitution, and into today's world..
nothing would surprise me.

Hugs

 

[quietthinker]

You are not representing the Saturday peoples very well... I'm sure the home office will be in touch! View attachment 41704

Yes, one must get born again to initially received salvation... but one must enter in to the Lord and abide IN Christ in faith.

Hebrews 4:1-11
Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Saturday is not the New Covenant sabbath View attachment 41705

I'm sorry for your fear BBJ
It is clear you have no rest. Your agitation about the Sabbath Commandment advertises it.

 

[BarneyFife]

Big Boy Johnson said:

And with the changing of the priesthood, God’s Word tells us there is also a change of the law.

Hebrews 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Some adherents to keeping Saturday sabbath frequently ask “where did the Lord take Saturday sabbatrh way?”
The answer can be found in Hebrews 10:9 and in Hebrews 7:12.

Once again, couldn't possibly be the same law.

Verses 16-18 of Hebrews 7 says the law that is being changed is carnal/fleshly, weak, and unprofitable:

Heb 7:16-18
16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life. 17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. 18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

But Romans 7 says that the law is spiritual, holy, just and good.

Rom 7:12-14
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. 13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Verse 14 even directly contrasts "spiritual" with "carnal," thoroughly impeaching the theory that Hebrews 7 is talking about the moral law being changed.

Are we really supposed to believe that "carnal" = "spiritual" and that "weak and unprofitable" = "holy, just, and good?"

You won't address this unimpeachable refutation of your Hebrews 7 = 9 commandments theory because—like with so many other refutations—you can't, but I'm just reading the Bible here—no hocus-pocus required to debunk this obviously anti-Sabbatarian nonsense.

.

 

[BarneyFife]

When we are Born-Again by the Spirit of God, we have entered into God's Eternal REST = the LORD Jesus Christ

"If you love me, keep my commandments,"
We are no longer under the Mosaic law commandments as we have a NEW Leader = the LORD
We are no longer under the Old Covenant = we are in the NEW Covenant of Grace where the LORD is our Sabbath Rest

OLD Covenant = Exodus 31:12-17
And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: ‘Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you. You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.’ ”

NEW Covenant = John 3:16-18
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

"If you love me, keep My commandments,"

FULFILLED in Christ/ALPHA = on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.’ ” = FULFILLED in CHRIST/OMEGA

.
Absolutely incomprehensible, Mexican Jumping Bean-style theology

Now you seem to be saying that the 4th commandment itself was the Old Covenant.

And that Christ need not have come to fulfill the law/Sabbath, because He already did so in Genesis 2 "in ALPHA."
'

'

 

[BarneyFife]

Big Boy Johnson said:

Saturday is not the New Covenant sabbath

This is true but you have not proved it.

.
Which covenant is it that saved those who you claim were the only ones required to keep the 7th-day Sabbath?

Just as the rest of abiding in Christ is not literally the same as Heaven itself, it is also not the same as the weekly, biologically necessary rest of the 4th commandment.

Those who disregard the circaseptan cycle rest of the 7th-day Sabbath will suffer the same kind of temporal consequences that those who disregard the circadian biological cycle. The Sabbath was made for man.

The equivocation going on here is absolutely astonishing.

The Sabbath of the LORD cannot be the LORD of the Sabbath.
'

'

 

[David in NJ]

.
Absolutely incomprehensible, Mexican Jumping Bean-style theology

Now you seem to be saying that the 4th commandment itself was the Old Covenant.

And that Christ need not have come to fulfill the law/Sabbath, because He already did so in Genesis 2 "in ALPHA."
'

'

Good Morning Brother Barney,

Christ never reiterated the 4th commandment in the GOSPEL except as it pertains to HIM.

The Apostles never reiterated the 4th commandment except to point to CHRIST.

 

[BarneyFife]

Good Morning Brother Barney,

Christ never reiterated the 4th commandment in the GOSPEL except as it pertains to HIM.

The Apostles never reiterated the 4th commandment except to point to CHRIST.

.
Good morning, Brother Dave,

The claims you make here have been shown many times to be incorrect and, as this is not a Sabbath relevance debate thread, it might be best if we just call it a day with this line of discussion.
'

'

 

[David in NJ]

.
Which covenant is it that saved those who you claim were the only ones required to keep the 7th-day Sabbath?

Just as the rest of abiding in Christ is not literally the same as Heaven itself, it is also not the same as the weekly, biologically necessary rest of the 4th commandment.

Those who disregard the circaseptan cycle rest of the 7th-day Sabbath will suffer the same kind of temporal consequences that those who disregard the circadian biological cycle. The Sabbath was made for man.

The equivocation going on here is absolutely astonishing.

The Sabbath of the LORD cannot be the LORD of the Sabbath.
'

'

The LORD gave no alternatives in His GOSPEL = His Salvation has been Delivered as Promised = UPS
UPS = Unmerited Promise of Salvation

We can embrace the NEW Covenant by His Sinless BLOOD and receive the Free Gift under Grace
or
we remain under the old covenant and suffer eternal separation from God.

Romans 3:20
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world will become guilty before God.
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Romans 10:4
For Christ is the end of the law, to bring righteousness to everyone who believes.


Choose between Exodus 31:12-17 and John 3:16-18 = only One REST will God accept

 

[BarneyFife]

Choose between Exodus 31:12-17 and John 3:16-18 = only One REST will God accept

.
So you keep saying, Dave, but not everyone is buying—already been addressed (link).
'

'

 

[David in NJ]

.
Good morning, Brother Dave,

The claims you make here have been shown many times to be incorrect and, as this is not a Sabbath relevance debate thread, it might be best if we just call it a day with this line of discussion.
'

'

Well, you must prove that they are incorrect from the Gospel.

Note: The discussion is not on what day of the week we are to gather on as that is dependent on each congregations choosing.

If you believe the 4th commandment is binding (and it is) on Saturday(no longer is) then you must PROVE it from God's Mouth.
The LAST Speaking of God came directly from the LORD Jesus Christ.
Moses(the law) is no longer the leader and has no say other than to point to CHRIST.

Note: No one is saying that it is wrong to gather on a Saturday or Sunday or other.