Heresy within Christianity

[Preacher4Truth]

I know why Jesus died on the cross, but I wanted to get your answer, but it seems that you want to avoid answering. Why are you reluctant to commit yourself to a definite personal answer?

Because this is what Mormons do. It is a well known trait of this cult. Paul was open about the Gospel, 2 Corinthians 4:1-2 and so are all true preachers and professors, they have nothing to hide, Matthew 5:14. Others hide and avoid direct answers contrary to the traits of true believers according to Scripture.

 

[Dcopymope]

Our foundation is God's literal Word. It is the absolute truth for us. As long as we stay on that foundation and not try and base our debates away from that foundation, we will not be defeated. As soon as any of us try to deal with evolution away from our foundation of literal Bible trust, we have lost.

Evolution is not new. It was a integral part of the ancient Greek pagan world view.

One prominent evolutionist said, and I quote: "For evolution to remain viable, we must not allow any divine foot in the door". That supports that evolution is atheistic, and pagan in origin.

Actually evolution goes back before even the Greeks. We see it in Hindu Brahmanism as well where the concept of reincarnation is also described in some of its Sanskrit text as an upward process from one species to another, as well as the concept that you can get life from non life (chemical evolution) as exemplified below. When the Bible says there is nothing new under the sun, it sure as hell meant exactly that.

Laws of Manu 1:10:

45. From hot moisture spring stinging and biting insects, lice, flies, bugs, and all other (creatures) of that kind which are produced by heat.

46. All plants, propagated by seed or by slips, grow from shoots; annual plants (are those) which, bearing many flowers and fruits, perish after the ripening of their fruit;

47. (Those trees) which bear fruit without flowers are called vanaspati (lords of the forest); but those which bear both flowers and fruit are called vriksha.

48. But the various plants with many stalks, growing from one or several roots, the different kinds of grasses, the climbing plants and the creepers spring all from seed or from slips.

49. These (plants) which are surrounded by multiform Darkness, the result of their acts (in former existences), possess internal consciousness and experience pleasure and pain.

50. The (various) conditions in this always terrible and constantly changing circle of births and deaths to which created beings are subject, are stated to begin with (that of) Brahman, and to end with (that of) these (just mentioned immovable creatures).

Cosmic Evolution in the Laws of Manu 1:56-57:

56. When, being clothed with minute particles (only), it enters into vegetable or animal seed, it then assumes, united (with the fine body), a (new) corporeal frame.

57. Thus he, the imperishable one, by (alternately) waking and slumbering, incessantly revivifies and destroys this whole movable and immovable (creation).

Translation: Brahma becomes the size of an atomic particle, from which the universe sprang forth as a new "corporeal frame".

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Quite the opposite. No one can truly understand the Gospel until he or she believes in the Genesis creation account. And no one can be saved unless they obey the Gospel.

EVOLUTION IS TOTAL NONSENSE -- A HOAX. EVEN DARWIN ADMITTED IT.

Yes from he point of that the Satanist are trying to make out that man evolved from Apes. that's why Socialist push that all people are equal nothings, it so that one can dismiss everyone as nothing.

I am sure that there are humans that are more or less evolved than others, I seen pure blood Aboriginals that are so primitive looking and dumb as an ox and you can not tell me that people like that would ever even live in the City and work a normal job, they never work anyway in fact, but they are bloody strong and hardy people that will wipe the floor with any other man in the conditions that they live in, now they are smart in other ways that most whites are dead stupid as an ox. they can walk for miles in the hot sun with no water, drink filthy water and eat totally rotten meat that would kill a city person. They have evolved for the conditions and were smart enough to survive in such, they are amazing ! their way of thinking as to the true culture before Cook is fantastic. but 99% of people are completely totally ignorant of such a people.

Evolved ? as to what ! a modern day weak white man who is sickly looking but may be in a high tec job but would never survive without modern day meds or could not survive in the bush because such lives in a bubble all their lives subjected to trends and their peers, not to mention the biggest sooks that live a life of ignorance, they will say yes bring in a full blood Aboriginal baby and think that they are going to create a Einstein out of him, with the right education, Never ! that's like trying to make a Labrador into a poodle.
5 poodles for sale to become Police attack dogs ! oh no my poor Poodles were knocked back due to prejudice of the Police dep, they wanted one breed over another. all Dogs are the same ! you can't discriminate remember that Jesus said not to discriminate, as it's offensive ! to the Devil ? because the Devil is god ! well that's what is being peddled nowadays, because the little darlings can not handle the truth. Oh no, tricksy the Poodle would of made a good dog to bring a man down for the Police I am sure.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Because this is what Mormons do. It is a well known trait of this cult. Paul was open about the Gospel, 2 Corinthians 4:1-2 and so are all true preachers and professors, they have nothing to hide, Matthew 5:14. Others hide and avoid direct answers contrary to the traits of true believers according to Scripture.

I heard of Ken Ham asking a woman who didn't believe in a literal Adam and Eve why Jesus died on the cross. She said that it was for our rebellion against God. I won't mention the next question the preacher asked the woman, because I don't want to influence my other friend's answer. I think our friend is nervous that I am going to embark in a diatribe against his particular world view, which is not my intention at all.

I can't change the world view of others. All I can do is the say what my world view is based on what I see in the Bible. The trouble is when I do that some get their noses out of joint and attack me, sometimes quite nastily. My thought about that is:
"Have you become my enemy because I tell you the truth?" (Galatians 4:16).

 

[Dcopymope]

I heard of Ken Ham asking a woman who didn't believe in a literal Adam and Eve why Jesus died on the cross. She said that it was for our rebellion against God. I won't mention the next question the preacher asked the woman, because I don't want to influence my other friend's answer. I think our friend is nervous that I am going to embark in a diatribe against his particular world view, which is not my intention at all.

I can't change the world view of others. All I can do is the say what my world view is based on what I see in the Bible. The trouble is when I do that some get their noses out of joint and attack me, sometimes quite nastily. My thought about that is:
"Have you become my enemy because I tell you the truth?" (Galatians 4:16).

If they are attacking you for telling the truth, then they always were your enemy from the start the way I see it. Its akin to this falsehood that money and power changes a person, NO, money & power merely exposes them for who they always were.

 

[Grailhunter]

I wasn't going to judge your belief at all! I was just going to follow it up with another question. I'm a nice guy, children and dogs trust me!

You think that I don't think you are a nice guy lol I know that I come acrossed stern....do you think I am pulling your chain? Do you think I am shaking your tree? You are right! A friend tells a friend the truth. A friend tells a friend when his zipper is down. If I did not think you were worth it, I would not waste my time with you. I know I am direct. I know I am stern.....several times I have threatened to change my avatar to a drunken clown with a whiskey bottle in my hand. I tried to explain that to you before.

 

[Brakelite]

Because this is what Mormons do. It is a well known trait of this cult. Paul was open about the Gospel, 2 Corinthians 4:1-2 and so are all true preachers and professors, they have nothing to hide, Matthew 5:14. Others hide and avoid direct answers contrary to the traits of true believers according to Scripture.

Or they couch their language in such a way as to deceive, such as the Vatican did in the 1999 agreement with the Lutheran's. The Vatican today no more believes in the Protestant understanding of justification any more than did their predecessors 400 years ago. It's just a sham, a pretence, and their current soteriology no less heresy than when Luther nailed his theses to that notice board. They use the same words, but the meaning of those words are different.

 

[Paul Christensen]

You think that I don't think you are a nice guy lol I know that I come acrossed stern....do you think I am pulling your chain? Do you think I am shaking your tree? You are right! A friend tells a friend the truth. A friend tells a friend when his zipper is down. If I did not think you were worth it, I would not waste my time with you. I know I am direct. I know I am stern.....several times I have threatened to change my avatar to a drunken clown with a whiskey bottle in my hand. I tried to explain that to you before.

I will come clean:
You saw my post about the preacher who asked the woman who didn't believe in a literal Adam and Eve, why Jesus came and died on the cross, and she answered, "To take away our rebellion".

Well, there is the rest of the story:
The preacher asked her, "And where did your rebellion come from?" The woman got angry and asked him, "When did you stop beating your wife?" Of course he wasn't, but he then knew that he had her boxed in without an answer, because she would have had to admit that the rebellion came from a literal Adam, and she did not want to admit that, so she totally avoided to answer.

 

[Taken]

Our foundation is God's literal Word. It is the absolute truth for us. As long as we stay on that foundation and not try and base our debates away from that foundation, we will not be defeated. As soon as any of us try to deal with evolution away from our foundation of literal Bible trust, we have lost.

Evolution is not new. It was a integral part of the ancient Greek pagan world view.

One prominent evolutionist said, and I quote: "For evolution to remain viable, we must not allow any divine foot in the door". That supports that evolution is atheistic, and pagan in origin.

Your point to me?
Sounds as if you are reminding me of my own standing.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

It's just reality that you're fighting.

Nope. I'm not Fighting. I'm disagreeing with you, and your conclusions.

By now, you should realize that you're at a huge disadvantage, because you don't know about any of the science or even the facts in this issue.

Nope.
I have the Truth. That IS my advantage.

Why not take a little time to learn about scripture

LOL..."little time"...(about Scripture) Thanks for your suggestion, but I already chose to spend a great deal of my time With Christ and His Truth.

and biology, and then try again?

LOL..."little time"... (about biology) maybe news to you, but I actually attended school and heard and read the scientific MIX of truth and fiction...contained within several Science Topics.

You'd be a lot more effective against science if you knew what it is.

I am NOT "against" Science...I am against JUNK Science. You seem incapable of distinguishing the Difference.

You still can't get past the idea of orthogenesis.

Nope. Orthogenesis IS a Theory, based on a man's IDEA of Possibility.

Science begins with an IDEA and THEORY of Possibility...and by the Ending Conclusion...the Idea and Theory becomes a False FACT...simply Because the speech, written words and cute little diagrams SAY SO...
LOL

Chimps, for example, aren't the ancestors of humans, any more than humans are the ancestors of chimps, or wolves are the ancestors of dogs.

Yes, I know that!
Humans, Animals, & Plants are Completely Different KINDS of CREATED things.

In each case, they evolved from a common ancestor which was neither of them.

LOL...now the introduction of Junk Science:
ALL those thing are supposedly ....."ANCESTORS".... LOL
(Thus RELATED)
"According th JUNK Science," Because Scientists claim they Discovered ..a single cell Thing floating on the ocean waves... from the timeframe of a Billion years ago"...
LOL

But because you don't have any idea what you're talking about, you keep running into the same pillar again,and again.

I keep landing on the Truth, I'm Willing to take the Consequences for that!

Plants and animals have a common ancestor, too.
Yep. And genetic analysis of plants and animals confirms it.
Single-celled eukaryote, it seems. Maybe a colonial form.

Meet the ancestors of all plants and animals

Protists, unique single-celled organisms that float on the ocean waves, are the ancestors of all plants and animals
Meet the ancestors of all plants and animals

Idea, Theory, Seems, Maybe, Analysis =
ARE . <--- Junk Science. [/B]

The Truth IS...All CREATED THINGS, were CREATED, BY God. And God Specified the Specific KINDS of Things He Created and Identified There was NO Ancestor relationship Between Humans, Animals, Plants.

It is NOT a mystery All Humans, Animals, Plants Require THE Earth and Water of its own Habitat to Sustain...the natural life of a Human, Animal, Plant...it is a Far stretch of A Scientists theoretical imagination to declare from their presumptions...and tests...to Declare as a FACT...all CREATED things are "Ancestors", By and through a supposed Single Cell thing, they claim existed billions of years ago....
and Apparently "that supposed Fact" slipped past Gods knowledge, when He revealed "His Six day Creation"!

Seriously...you are peddling a CREATED "man-KIND" of Thing's, Theories TRUMPS God s Truth...and no one is saying you do not have the FREEWILL to Believe what you please...However that FREEWILL door swings both ways...I have the same FREEWILL to believe what I please.

I Disagree with your Belief.
I reject your Belief.
And your frustration is noted...
With a "common" human "response" of one whose Belief is "rejected"...
As your snarky attempt to belittle me are revealed.

Dude...I do not agree with you.
You can call me Wrong, accuse me of requiring more study of science (reports) AND Scripture...

It's a Fail...I do NOT measure myself Against you or Desire to follow you or Be Like you.

 

[Yehren]

By now, you should realize that you're at a huge disadvantage, because you don't know about any of the science or even the facts in this issue.

Nope.
I have the Truth. That IS my advantage.

Not knowing what you're talking about, that IS your disadvantage. Truth is tied to reality, not your wishes.

LOL..."little time"... (about biology) maybe news to you, but I actually attended school and heard and read the scientific MIX of truth and fiction...contained within several Science Topics.

If so, you'd actually know what the theory is about. And you've demonstrated to everyone here that you don't.

"According th JUNK Science," Because Scientists claim they Discovered ..a single cell Thing floating on the ocean waves... from the timeframe of a Billion years ago"...

No, you still don't get it. "Junk science" is the creationist term for "facts that disturb me."

The fortunate thing for you, is that you can still be saved, even if you are a YE creationist. There won't be a biology test to get into heaven. If you obeyed the great commandments, and if you showed love for your fellow man, then you're going to be all right.

You should thank God for that.

 

[Taken]

..."you're at a huge disadvantage...
...you don't know about any of the science or facts...
...Truth is tied to reality, not your wishes.
...you still don't get it...
...what the theory is...
...fortunate you can still "Be" Saved...
...if you showed love...
...you should thank God..."

You have been talking about and promoting your belief in scientific theories as facts.

I have stated my beliefs, and basis in Gods Truth.
As well I have stated I do not agree with your beliefs in what you promote.

Further I pointed out your response to my disagreement, of your personal attacks, AS IF that somehow that buttresses your beliefs.

Although some things you say about your beliefs are funny...
I still disagree with what you believe and promote, and find you typical of one who makes personal attacks, when their attempt to turn theories into facts fails.

BTW...you appear rather silly, not knowing the Lord does not Save those already Saved!

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Paul Christensen]

Your point to me?
Sounds as if you are reminding me of my own standing.

Glory to God,
Taken

Well, I am learning new things about debating with atheists and others who don't acknowledge the authority of the Bible, and I enjoying sharing what I have learned to those who might be encouraged by them. I know that often I am preaching to the choir, but if I have been over 50 years in the faith, and still learning new things and love to share what I have learned with others. Mostly others will say, "I know that already", but there will be the odd occasion where they will say, "I never thought of that!" and then I have passed on a pearl of wisdom.

I have noticed that there is a lot of defensiveness on this forum and some tend to bite back like great white sharks when something is said that gets on their wick. I was helpfully warned about this and encouraged to have a thick skin when I first joined the forum.

But I am learning, as I get to know people better here, who is who.

So my comments are for you, not at you.

 

[Yehren]

You have been talking about and promoting your belief in scientific theories as facts.

I'm pointing out facts. You've confused theories...
A scientific theory is an explanation of an aspect of the natural world that can be repeatedly tested and verified in accordance with the scientific method, using accepted protocols of observation, measurement, and evaluation of results.
Scientific theory - Wikipedia

...with facts, the data used to confirm them. This is why you're having such a problem here.

The meaning of the term scientific theory (often contracted to theory for brevity) as used in the disciplines of science is significantly different from the common vernacular usage of theory. In everyday speech, theory can imply an explanation that represents an unsubstantiated and speculative guess,[4] whereas in science it describes an explanation that has been tested and widely accepted as valid. These different usages are comparable to the opposing usages of prediction in science versus common speech, where it denotes a mere hope.
ibid

I have stated my beliefs, and basis in Gods Truth.

In your modern re-interpretation of God's Truth.

Further I pointed out your response to my disagreement, of your personal attacks, AS IF that somehow that buttresses your beliefs.

I'm merely showing that you don't know anything about the issue. And you've repeatedly confirmed that in your writing. I don't actually know if you're one of the people here who have questioned my faith in God, but if you have, shame on you. I pointed out repeatedly that creationists are no less Christian than those who accept evolution. I won't report you in any case, but if you have questioned my faith for differing with you on this question, that's a genuine shame.

BTW...you appear rather silly, not knowing the Lord does not Save those already Saved!

God gives you the free will to reject Him at any time. There is no carte blanche to Heaven.

 

[Taken]

I'm pointing out facts.

Obviously, I am not swayed by "your Facts."

In your modern re-interpretation of God's Truth.

LOL. oh ouch, your opinion almost affected me....not, LOL.

I'm merely showing that you...

You have been Expressly told...
I am not in agreement with you, I have zero interest in what you believe, have no intention of reading any more of what you are peddling.

God gives you the free will to reject Him at any time. There is no carte blanche to Heaven.

That is a really sad comment, but not surprising after observing your posts.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Paul Christensen]

I'm pointing out facts. You've confused theories...
A scientific theory is an explanation of an aspect of the natural world that can be repeatedly tested and verified in accordance with the scientific method, using accepted protocols of observation, measurement, and evaluation of results.
Scientific theory - Wikipedia

...with facts, the data used to confirm them. This is why you're having such a problem here.

The meaning of the term scientific theory (often contracted to theory for brevity) as used in the disciplines of science is significantly different from the common vernacular usage of theory. In everyday speech, theory can imply an explanation that represents an unsubstantiated and speculative guess,[4] whereas in science it describes an explanation that has been tested and widely accepted as valid. These different usages are comparable to the opposing usages of prediction in science versus common speech, where it denotes a mere hope.
ibid



In your modern re-interpretation of God's Truth.



I'm merely showing that you don't know anything about the issue. And you've repeatedly confirmed that in your writing. I don't actually know if you're one of the people here who have questioned my faith in God, but if you have, shame on you. I pointed out repeatedly that creationists are no less Christian than those who accept evolution. I won't report you in any case, but if you have questioned my faith for differing with you on this question, that's a genuine shame.



God gives you the free will to reject Him at any time. There is no carte blanche to Heaven.

This is the problem with some on this forum. They can't have a reasonable discussion and debate about issues without attacking each other's personal faith in Christ.

The bottom line is that complete salvation comes through believing that Jesus is the Son of God who took the penalty for our sinfulness on Himself and that He rose from the dead to give us eternal life, and possibly be baptised as a demonstration of one's faith in Christ. If a person exercises that faith then what they believe about the origin of the universe and world is secondary.

If a person believes in the atheistic form of evolution, then he is denying the Creator, and so that is entirely a different story, and no Christian believer would subscribe to it. When Paul discussed the Unknown God to the Greek philosophers, he didn't use the Jewish Scriptures because they would not have known them, nor of the Jewish world view, as those he preached to in the synagogues had. (When preaching to the Jews, he preached exactly what Peter preached on the day of Pentecost, that this Jesus whom they rejected is the Christ). But with the Greeks he didn't even start with the resurrection of Christ, because, as it is recorded, they thought at first that Paul was a "babbler". So he pointed to the Unknown God as the Creator of everything, and when he had got that point across, then He talked of Christ who rose from the dead.

Some say he failed at Mars Hill, but when you think of the extreme pagans he had to deal with, he did the right thing by presenting the Creator first, then Jesus next. He did get a few converts so even those showed success in that totally pagan environment.

So the issue with Christian believers is not that the Creator didn't create everything that we see around us, but how He went about it. So this is why I don't doubt your genuine Christian faith and that you will receive God's pardon in the judgment. No worries about that!

But even though you have scuppered me with your better knowledge, you have not convinced me of your view about how the Creator constructed the cosmos and the world around us.

 

[Yehren]

This is the problem with some on this forum. They can't have a reasonable discussion and debate about issues without attacking each other's personal faith in Christ.

You make it pretty easy to be civil to you. And you've not questioned my faith, which I appreciate.

The bottom line is that complete salvation comes through believing that Jesus is the Son of God who took the penalty for our sinfulness on Himself and that He rose from the dead to give us eternal life, and possibly be baptised as a demonstration of one's faith in Christ. If a person exercises that faith then what they believe about the origin of the universe and world is secondary.

Yes. Exactly so.

If a person believes in the atheistic form of evolution

Since science can't say anything at all about the supernatural, such a belief would be profoundly unscientific.

So the issue with Christian believers is not that the Creator didn't create everything that we see around us, but how He went about it.

Exactly.

But even though you have scuppered me with your better knowledge, you have not convinced me of your view about how the Creator constructed the cosmos and the world around us.

It's not going to threaten your salvation, so I don't have a great need to "convert" you. But it's fun talking about it with someone who can disagree and still remain civil.

 

[Paul Christensen]

You make it pretty easy to be civil to you. And you've not questioned my faith, which I appreciate.



Yes. Exactly so.



Since science can't say anything at all about the supernatural, such a belief would be profoundly unscientific.



Exactly.



It's not going to threaten your salvation, so I don't have a great need to "convert" you. But it's fun talking about it with someone who can disagree and still remain civil.

I have had a lot of fun talking with you too, and I hope it continues in the attitude of fellowship between us, even though we have a few jousting sessions at times.

On the other forum where I was a member, only once in all the years I was posting and discussing that I was backed into such a corner, that I had to concede that the other guy was right! Believe me, it took many hours of debate for that to happen.
I can't remember what the issue was, but he was able to prove conclusively from Scripture in a way that I could not deny that his view was correct and I was wrong.

So, the day of miracles is not over!

 

[XRose]

It baffles me how so many evolutionist and idolatrous slaves of Satan are tolerated on a supposedly Christian forum!
Claiming ceolocanths evolved over 200,000 years is crazy nonsense right out of Satan's Book of Lies for Fools.
Worms prove Earth is young and The Flood was real.
SCIENTISTS say there is enough water locked up in the antarctic ice to cover Earth 230 feet deep - maybe aliens brought it all here in UFOs as they thought the Earth that had agglomerated from dry dust would need water for Satan's evolution experiments. His same same experiments detailed in Genesis 6 that produced the Nephilim. Here is Satan or one of his friends about to make a Nephilim baby:

 

[XRose]

thanks for the reply, I will go the easy way first. scripture, John 4:24 "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth". God is "A", Spirit meaning ONE Spirit correct. now this,
Romans 8:9 "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his".

now XRose is the Spirit of Christ a separate Spirit from the Spirit of God yes or no?

PICJAG.

Christ's spirit is different one to GOD's as GOD is not Jesus and Jesus is not GOD.
You are free to worship the Babylonian trinity of you wish.