HERESY?

[Mungo]

I ask God for Truth and listen to His answers. Men can help, but God Himself is the be-all-end-all.
I recommend everyone else do the same.

Scripture says "the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth." (1Tim 3:15) not your personal opinions.

 

[Earburner]

Scripture says "the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth." (1Tim 3:15) not your personal opinions.

If I may interject, the "church" is not any one denomination, nor is it a building with a name over the door.

Jesus said in KJV- Matthew 18[20] For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

However, there are MANY that do attend and hold positions within local visible church buildings, who have NOT entered into the KoG, and therefore THEY are "none of His".
They may have been baptized by water, but they never sought to be baptized by God's Holy Spirit, to take up residence within them, and become "born again".
Iows, there are MANY who are NOT "in His name".
Luke 11:13, John 3:3-8, Revelation 3:20, Romans 8:8-9.
See also the parable of "the wheat and the tares"- Matthew 13:24-30

 

[Mungo]

If I may interject, the "church" is not any one denomination, nor is it a building with a name over the door.

So what is "church" in 1Tim 3:15 in your opinion?

Jesus said in KJV- Matthew 18[20] For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

However, there are MANY that do attend and hold positions within local visible church buildings, who have NOT entered into the KoG, and therefore THEY are "none of His".
They may have been baptized by water, but they never sought to be baptized by God's Holy Spirit, to take up residence within them, and become "born again".
Iows, there are MANY who are NOT "in His name".
Luke 11:13, John 3:3-8, Revelation 3:20, Romans 8:8-9.
See also the parable of "the wheat and the tares"- Matthew 13:24-30

They are your personal opinions but what is the truth?

 

[Hidden In Him]

By "notably Christian", maybe you're referring to other religions?

Yes. Christianity uses the term more than any other religion, or so I understand the quote. It's likely that other religions like Islam use a different word for false teachings.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Not sure where this should be...
the study of God seemed appropriate (maybe).

Every denomination has some teaching or doctrine that we would not agree with.

How would you explain the difference between an
incorrect teaching
and
a heretical teaching...?

IOW,,,when does an incorrect teaching become heretical?

Thanks.

When an incorrect teaching is voiced among those with an army, it becomes heretical. Heretic hunters are looking for people to kill, either physically or mentally.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Scripture says "the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth." (1Tim 3:15) not your personal opinions.

I didn’t say anything about my personal opinion, I said ask God HIS. Please don’t misrepresent others beliefs.

 

[Mungo]

I didn’t say anything about my personal opinion, I said ask God HIS. Please don’t misrepresent others beliefs.

Are you claiming to be an infallible hearer of God?

 

[Earburner]

So what is "church" in 1Tim 3:15 in your opinion?
They are your personal opinions but what is the truth?

1 Peter 2[9] But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
[10] Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

The true "church of God" is invisible by physical eyesight.
For one to be "holy", is a three stage process.
A. They first must repent towards God,
B. ask for God's forgiveness through the Blood of Christ,
C. and then "ask" for the free Gift of His Holy Spirit to dwell within them.

For all who perform all three, they are "born again", and HAVE entered into the KoG at that moment.
To mistep any one of the above listed, is to assume that that one is a Christian, and therefore all of such are only running parallel to the kingdom. Aka "being so close, but so very far away"

 

[Earburner]

I didn’t say anything about my personal opinion, I said ask God HIS. Please don’t misrepresent others beliefs.

Yes, amen! You are seeking to know/learn HIS thoughts and ways "by His Spirit", and not so much everyone elses.
Isaiah 55:8-9, Zechariah 4:6, John 16:13.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Are you claiming to be an infallible hearer of God?

I am claiming to be a follower of Christ- a Christian. Hence listening to HIM. I make no claims of infallibility, only He is perfect.

 

[Mungo]

1 Peter 2[9] But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
[10] Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

The true "church of God" is invisible by physical eyesight.

I asked what is "church" in 1Tim 3:15 in your opinion?

For one to be "holy", is a three stage process.
A. They first must repent towards God,
B. ask for God's forgiveness through the Blood of Christ,
C. and then "ask" for the free Gift of His Holy Spirit to dwell within them.

For all who perform all three, they are "born again", and HAVE entered into the KoG at that moment.
To mistep any one of the above listed, is to assume that that one is a Christian, and therefore all of such are only running parallel to the kingdom. Aka "being so close, but so very far away"

Unblical opinions - but then you provide no scripture to back them up.

 

[amigo de christo]

Not here to criticize any particular denomination.
Thanks.

To warn is not to criticize.

 

[GodsGrace]

1 Corinthians 11:18-19 KJV
For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. [19] For there must be also heresies h among you, that they which are approved may be made i manifest among you.

Galatians 5:19-21 KJV
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, i which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, j [20] Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, [21] Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

2 Peter 2:1 KJV
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

Acts 24:14 KJV
But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Titus 3:9-11 KJV
But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. [10] A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; [11] Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

These are the verses that I know of in the Bible that use the term heretic. I noted three with bold print. The first and second come close to something of a definition. It involves divisions in the first one, but denying the Lord in the second.

The Acts reference is interesting... Paul seems not to mind the charge of being a heretic, but claims he isn't. In other words, he is saying, "they call me a heretic, but I am the one following the bible!"

I have been called a heretic because of my stance on a certain subject was "not orthodox". I don't mind that one bit, and it seems Paul didn't either.

I had an interesting exchange with #Breadoflife once on this topic. He explained to me that people who are of the Protestant denominations from birth are not heretics; but former Catholics who become such are heretics. If I am mistaken, my apologies.

I'll continue later...

Hi FHII
I do remember you but not what "odd" belief you have that is not orthodox...I guess it'll come up eventually.
Seems like we all have one odd belief or other...

I guess I must be a heretic then because I did leave the Catholic faith. The priests I know don't consider me to be a heretic and I tell them I'm Protestant in some ways. They also know which doctrine I do not agree with. It seems to me like none of them believe in purgatory.

Thanks for posting the verses about heretics.
I'm just having a little trouble understanding the difference between an incorrect teaching and a heresy....
These posts are helping.

I read Acts 24:14 in a few versions.
The Way is what Christians were called at that time.
The Way was considered to be a cult...a heretical sect.
Paul was basically saying that he is following the same God as everyone there.
Yes, this was interesting, I never paid to much attention to these verses.
Thanks for that too!

 

[GodsGrace]

heresy is merely a teaching that deviates from ones standard (denomination). An example is OSAS.

Incorrect teaching is one that goes against the Word of God. An example is salvation by means other than through Gods Anointed.

What are you saying is worse: A heresy or an incorrect teaching?
And what is "through God's annointed"?

 

[Earburner]

I asked what is "church" in 1Tim 3:15 in your opinion?




Unblical opinions - but then you provide no scripture to back them up.

I provided 1 Peter 2:9. If you don't comprehend the message of it, then ask God for His wisdom, according to Isaiah 55:8-9 and John 16:13.

As for all else of my words, I speak with scripture. Surely you can recognize the KJV bible words, that I "peppered" within my speech.

 

[GodsGrace]

There are, I'm sure, long lists of historical heretical groups. It does get confusing when we all agree that redemption came by Christ alone, but then groups otherwise in accord claim that human will does or does not play a role in our salvation. I sympathize. I indulge in a lot of these discussions about the operation of grace and free human will. The historic conflict was over Arminianism and Calvinism. Often, the confusion is strictly over language. And sometimes it's just a matter of looking at different sides of the coin. But how we view such things can get into matters of not trusting in Christ alone for our salvation, and then can be damaging to the Christian.

My understanding of the word HERETIC means any teaching that deviates from the accepted definition of a religion.

Here are some definitions:

The definition of a heretic is a person who violates established rules and tenants of a religion, or is a person who has views that don't conform to the norm.

A heretic is a person who belongs to a particular religion, but whose beliefs or actions seriously disagree with the principles of that religion.

A person who holds unorthodox opinions in any field.

A belief or action that is heretical is one that most people think is wrong because it disagrees with beliefs that are generally accepted.


From Wikepedia:
Heresy is any belief or theory that is strongly at variance with established beliefs or customs, in particular the accepted beliefs of a church or religious organization.[1] The term is usually used in reference to violations of important religious teachings, but is also used of views strongly opposed to any generally accepted ideas.[2] A heretic is a proponent of heresy.[1]

The term is used particularly in reference to Christianity, Judaism, and Islam.[3] In certain historical Christian, Muslim, and Jewish cultures, among others, espousing ideas deemed heretical has been (and in some cases still is) met with censure ranging from excommunication to the death penalty.


All of the above were from a google search here:
https://www.google.com/searchq=what...450l8.602697495j0j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8


It seems that heretical refers more to a person than a church
and that the belief must be something that varies very much from accepted dogma/teaching.

 

[GodsGrace]

Ultimately, if you want to know what is True for yourself, you got to do the work yourself: study and prayerfully ask God Himself if this is His Truth. And then keep listening for decades+ as He keeps teaching you-- He is gracious and will keep that refiner's fire going.

Seeking any other source of "Truth" (relying on Creeds, popular vote, the radically different denominations, commentaries) is not God and falls short.

As to the difference between "Heretical" versus "Incorrect": I find that when Person A is very passionate about this particular subject and Person B disagrees with him, A will call be B a heretic and attack. When it's a subject viewed of lesser importance, A will just call B "incorrect". That's fallen men. God is different & gracious, continuing to teach & save us horribly wayward wretched sinners.

You mean we Christians each have "our own truth"?

How does that make us ONE GROUP?

I do believe that we define Christianity FIRST and then decide if we want to be a part of it.

 

[Earburner]

So what is "church" in 1Tim 3:15 in your opinion?

1 Timothy 3[15] But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
[16] And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
> All born again Christians are the "mansions" in "the house of God", which is "the Israel of God", aka "Heavenly Jerusalem", "which is the mother of us all", who are of faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Wrangler]

What are you saying is worse: A heresy or an incorrect teaching?
And what is "through God's annointed"?

Incorrect teaching is worse. You don't know who God's Anointed is? This is the meaning of Christ; the meaning of Messiah.
(The VOICE translation, which I tend to use does not use the terms Christ or Messiah but God's Anointed to remind us it is his title and not his last name, like Ben Franklin).

Heresy is what all Protestantism is called - by the Catholic denomination. Steve Ciocalanti, an Australian minister, said we should reserve 'heresy' for a teaching that keeps someone from salvation. I like that idea but the original meaning I gave is in common practice.

Another point about denominational teachings is the segregate an explicit teaching in Scripture from merely a teaching that "can be" interpreted to 'support' a doctrine one already holds, such as soul sleep.

 

[Mungo]

1 Timothy 3[15] But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
[16] And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
> All born again Christians are the "mansions" in "the house of God", which is "the Israel of God", aka "Heavenly Jerusalem", "which is the mother of us all", who are of faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

OK, you are not prepared to give a straight answer. I can ignore you then.