No...we are made righteous through His life in us.
Romans 4:25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
So if we are IN His life then we won't crucify Him again with our sinful ways.
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
No...we are made righteous through His life in us.
Romans 4:25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
So if we are IN His life then we won't crucify Him again with our sinful ways.
What do you mean no...you disagree with the scripture that I referenced (Romans 5:9)?
Just with your take..interpretation....rendering...of the verse in question.
Justified by His blood....means justified by His life....not death. The life is in the blood.
We are justified by the fact that Jesus died in our place. This was the shedding of His blood.
Of course there is also the aspect of this where we are saved by His life in us. For the blood of Jesus sanctifies (Hebrews 13:12, Hebrews 10:29, 1 John 1:7).
But you do not deny that we are declared righteous (justified) because His blood was shed?
This would have to do with His perfect life being applied to our account.
2 Chr. 34:19
Well-Known Member
Praise The Lord for His deliverance from our old ‘evil’ ways
...only as we walk in that life ourselves.
We are to put on Christ. Not as in the modern idea of putting people on as a joke as in..."you're putting me on." There are a lot of jokers around who are putting God on. They are trying to fool Him. But there is also the real surrender at the cross..the emptying of oneself...so as to be filled with His Spirit and enter into the realm of the Spirit. This is the real putting on of Christ.
I agree that it is important that we should live a holy life as Christians...
But if living holy is required for salvation, then in a sense works are also a requirement; and we know that the Bible teaches the opposite of that.
To get it in proper perspective, we must understand that the Lord gives unto us salvation as a free gift (cf. Romans 5:15-19) and that we can do nothing to obtain it apart from simply placing our faith and trust in what Jesus did for us on the Cross.
Now anyone who truly does this will find that they have been freely given the gift of salvation and forgiveness; and I would be surprised if anyone who knows that they have this isn't truly grateful.
It is out of this thankfulness that our holy living is motivated. Not out of a need to earn the salvation that God gives us, as of keeping a requirement; but as an offering of love over what the Lord has already done for us.
For those who feel the need to earn salvation through the keeping of a requirement, God sets forth perfection as the requirement (Matthew 5:48, Galatians 3:10, James 2:10); even from conception into eternity.
But for those who come to the Lord on His terms (on the basis of faith in what He did for them), the requirement of perfection has already been lived out for them by the Lord Jesus Christ as He lived out a perfect life and then died in our place; so that righteousness is imputed to the one who believes in Jesus; whether he or she is circumcised or uncircumcised spiritually (Romans 2:28-29, Romans 4:11).
It is wholly on the basis of faith.
So then, if one is living a Romans 7:14-25 lifestyle, they may indeed be born again if they have the attitude towards their sin that Paul speaks of in Romans 7:24. Being discontented towards a lifestyle of sin, if you find yourself in bondage to it, is the only attitude that any born again Christian who has not yet found the victory, can have. The conscience, as it is affected by the Holy Spirit, does not allow the born again believer to be content to live in such a state; the born again believer living in such a state will be afflicted by his conscience. This is why the doctrine of entire sanctification is good news to anyone living a Romans 7:14-25 lifestyle who is truly born again. Those who are not born again, living in such a lifestyle, will resist the doctrine when they hear it; they want to live in that state and also feel that they are alright with God. But such people do not have the evidence of regeneration within them.
But if living holy is required for salvation, then in a sense works are also a requirement; and we know that the Bible teaches the opposite of that.
To get it in proper perspective, we must understand that the Lord gives unto us salvation as a free gift (cf. Romans 5:15-19) and that we can do nothing to obtain it apart from simply placing our faith and trust in what Jesus did for us on the Cross.
Now anyone who truly does this will find that they have been freely given the gift of salvation and forgiveness; and I would be surprised if anyone who knows that they have this isn't truly grateful.
It is out of this thankfulness that our holy living is motivated. Not out of a need to earn the salvation that God gives us, as of keeping a requirement; but as an offering of love over what the Lord has already done for us.
For those who feel the need to earn salvation through the keeping of a requirement, God sets forth perfection as the requirement (Matthew 5:48, Galatians 3:10, James 2:10); even from conception into eternity.
But for those who come to the Lord on His terms (on the basis of faith in what He did for them), the requirement of perfection has already been lived out for them by the Lord Jesus Christ as He lived out a perfect life and then died in our place; so that righteousness is imputed to the one who believes in Jesus; whether he or she is circumcised or uncircumcised spiritually (Romans 2:28-29, Romans 4:11).
It is wholly on the basis of faith.
So then, if one is living a Romans 7:14-25 lifestyle, they may indeed be born again if they have the attitude towards their sin that Paul speaks of in Romans 7:24. Being discontented towards a lifestyle of sin, if you find yourself in bondage to it, is the only attitude that any born again Christian who has not yet found the victory, can have. The conscience, as it is affected by the Holy Spirit, does not allow the born again believer to be content to live in such a state; the born again believer living in such a state will be afflicted by his conscience. This is why the doctrine of entire sanctification is good news to anyone living a Romans 7:14-25 lifestyle who is truly born again. Those who are not born again, living in such a lifestyle, will resist the doctrine when they hear it; they want to live in that state and also feel that they are alright with God. But such people do not have the evidence of regeneration within them.
Hi Behold,
I know the truth you are expressing. But I don't give you many "likes" because of your manner. There is no need to address the persons of others, and make that the discussion. Whether I am "sinning and repenting" or not.
I think the core issue here is justification, and understanding what it really means. Once we have a true understanding, then we realize how completely forgiven we are. And understanding that frees us from the impulses driven by Law, driven by the desire to judge ourselves as good or evil, as if that were what determined my relationship with God.
Once we come to see that we are His children in Christ, and in Christ alone we are His, then we can be free to trust Him in the way that causes us to live Jesus' life.
Much love!
You are not writing the Threads, so you are not involved in the dispute.
If you write the Threads, and legalists/heretics come running to yours as they come to mine, endlessly, to dispute the very truth of the Cross that you see me posting, then you will find that its necessary to respond in a way that identifies them and their core issue.
With these heretics, Its always "self saving" or "repenting and confessing", or teaching you can "lose your salvation" or they teach that God chooses some for hell and others for heaven, and people have no free will to choose Christ for themselves".
So, those are the 4 core heresies that ruin all Christian forums, because they are allowed to continue.
So, when they come running to my Threads to deny them, by trying to teach "self saving" and "repenting and confessing" or "you can lose it", etc.... then they are attempting to keep new Christians or weak Christians, in bondage, and that is the devil's work.
So, i treat them accordingly, and if you decide to post a lot of teaching Threads, as i do,.... to try to bring people out of bondage by teaching them the simple truths that Paul taught, you will also find yourself inundated with hateful devil led legalists, and then you'll understand my methods.
Keep in mind that Christ never showed love to a Legalist or to a devil.
Paul Himself taught Titus that when you deal with a theologically subverted Legalist who wont listen and just wants to rant and bite, you are to get them out of your church. = reject them. Do not love them. Do not offer them your patience. Show them the EXIT and help them find it asap.
= DONE.
So, on a forum, i can't kick them off, which i would do if i was a Mod here, but i can address them, according to their devil led purpose.
2 Chr. 34:19
Well-Known Member
No,
we are made righteous by Christi's Blood that redeemed us from our sin.
There is NO Righteousness without sinlessness.
And once that is in place, then God's Spirit comes to exist in union with ours, = born again.
God does not come in, episkopos, until the sin is ALL gone, no matter what liar has led you to believe otherwise.
The sin is gone, once the Blood Atonentment is applied to a person, = born again.
The Holy Spirit originall brings them to the Cross when they hear the Gospel. "Faith comes by HEARING"
The person then exercises FREE WILL FAITH IN CHRIST that God accepts ONCE as their "faith is counted as Righteousness", and God then gives this BELIEVER "the gift of Righteousness", which makes them EQUAL to God's righteousness.
I explained this in a Thread that explained why God came here as Christ. Did you read it ?
You should.
Sin has to be dealt with and done with......Otherwise, God is not going to live in the person as "Christ in You, the hope of Glory".
So, SIN, has to be GONE< before GOD will come INSIDE and LIVE, as Christ/Holy Spirit.
If you have sin, then you don't have Christ.
God does not live in a "sinner", He lives in a born again SAINT who is redeemed from ALL their sin.
When you understand this, you'll be taking your first steps toward right believing.
So...are you catholic?
Do you think the word "hallelujah" is a Catholic invention?
Its actually a Hebrew word that means "Praise God".
Where i live in Israel , in a city named Netanya, .. there is a Jewish "Temple" in the basement of my building.
These Jews say "Hallelujah" a lot.
It good to praise God.
N0, Im not a Catholic. My Threads would cause the Pope to develop a rash and throw a tantrum, as that fellow has no use for "Jesus saved me and keeps me saved".
"Justification by Faith" is not the Catholic "way".
Im just a simple bible believer who is a "last of our kind", along with men like Adrian Rogers and James Kennedy, and Lloyd John Ogilvie.
There are not many of us left who take strictly from Paul what Jesus gave Him, and teach nothing else.
You wont find me writing Threads about anything that Paul didn't teach.
"Pauline Theology" is my end game.
I guess you haven't read many of my threads?
I get the same sorts of responses. I happen to think that we should stay with teaching the material then telling people what's making them tick. If anything just explain the principle and if they identify with it then progress is made.
It's a very difficult bondage, going back to the eating of the wrong tree, which then led to the wrong kind of life. We are supposed to have a life of innocence and purity by trusting in Jesus and just living out God's love for others. Instead the flesh tendency is to make it about whether I'm right or wrong, and will God still love me.
Every conversation is unique, and as the Holy Spirit leads. And let your moderation be known to all. Your ability to moderate yourself to the situation.
Much love!
2 Chr. 34:19
Well-Known Member
Stumpmaster
Well-Known Member
Holiness accompanies salvation. There's a difference between making an effort to be holy in order to be saved and being holy because you are saved.
Mat 7:15-20 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. (16) You shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? (17) Even so every good tree brings forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree brings forth evil fruit. (18) A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. (19) Every tree that brings not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. (20) Wherefore by their fruits you shall know them.
I know that you are writing under the assumption that you are correct in your theology and that you are attempting to save souls by what you are preaching.
However, when you are effectively taking out of the word of God three books of the Bible, claiming that reading them will lead a man to heresy, I believe that this may in fact be the root of your problem. For all scripture is inspired of the Lord and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction in righteousness (2 Timothy 3:16).
And therefore, you must needs consider that the people who are coming against you are doing so in order to protect the flock of Jesus from your errors that stem out of your subtractions from what we consider to be the inspired word of God.
Of most concern to me is your contention that as believers we don't have sin. This is the uttermost heresy; and it indicates to me that at every other level you are deceiving yourself and the truth is not in you.
And a major problem for me, is that you also teach some things that are right on the money, even according to what I have taught the body here in the past. So I consider that you have come here as a thief, to convince people of your doctrine, capitalizing on the fact that they already believe some of the things that you are teaching because I have taught it to them.
Apparently, every heretical teacher has to have some truth in what they are saying or else the people wouldn't swallow the poison that they are trying to hand out. There would have to be some kind of positive flavour to your doctrine to cover up the flavour of the heresy that is being espoused.
Similar threads
