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Randy Kluth

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You're conflating justification with sanctification.

Not at all. I just gave facts. Both Justification and Sanctification come by the initiation and by the works of Christ in redeeming us. It *always* entails using our will to both respond to Salvation and to work out our Salvation in practical righteous living.

How does this take place? Christ provided the virtue necessary to save us. It was God who had to forgive us, through His Son. And it was God who is the source of all virtue for men.

When God created us He made us able to respond to His virtuous call, and to work together with Him to reproduce His likeness and image. So in redeeming us He continued to offer us His virtue, and we continued to be able to respond to it.

Once we respond to His call to be virtuous, we recognize that He wanted us to more than just do good on occasion--He wanted us to *be good,* to adopt a godly nature.

So in becoming born again, we draw not just upon the virtue of God to do good, but we also choose to receive a new nature and to live by that nature. It all comes from God--both the virtue and the new nature.

Christ provided the perfect Sacrifice. And we participate in the Divine nature in order to let Christ operate through us. We live in an active, spiritual partnership with Christ. To do so we not only choose to do good, but we also chose to be good.
 
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Episkopos

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"""Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:""""

This verse is the cornerstone verse to help you understand that you are always at peace with God.
Notice carefully. ""we HAVE"..... not.... we are earning, or we are keeping, or we are hoping in end to get..
Do you see that? = You are at PEACE WITH GOD !
Its so important regarding your correct understanding of the Blood Atonement that you come to BELIEVE this verse, as if you can find your way there in your head and faith, you will be delivered from ever again trying to keep yourself right with God by YOUR EFFORT.
And once you are in this place of right believing (Grace) you are on your way to perfected discipleship.
But until you understand in your heart of faith that you ARE at peace with God at all times, BECAUSE you are "justified by faith".... then you will continue to not understand your salvation and you will be stuck in a vicious cycle of....well, i messed up again, so now let me go and by MY EFFORT get myself back into God's favor...
NO !!
You can't get yourself back into God's favor, because you never put yourself into God's acceptence to begin with....
Understand ?

-----------

"""""""For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.""""

Now, this is another KEY verse that shows you that the OLD TESTAMENT has no ability to do anything for your sin, or your salvation.
And notice carefully "" Have no more consciousness of SIN"
Notice that?
So, do you have sin in your head? Are you repenting of sin? Confessing ?
Yet, the salvation of Jesus is given not just to allow you into the family of God, (born again) but its also given to take the "curse of the LAW" away from you, and put you "under Grace", so that by understanding that you always have peace with God, you find that "sin consciousness" is being removed from your mind to the point were sin and consciousness of sin becomes so distant and faded that it has no power anymore to even tempt you.
This is what God has also done for you through "the finished work of Jesus on the Cross".
So, if you have sinning and repenting issues, then you are not walking in the Grace of God, but you are walking in your self effort (walking in the flesh) to try to keep yourself in God's favor, (trying to keep yourself saved)...and until you stop doing that in your head and start BELIEVING that the blood of Jesus alone keeps you in perfect peace with God, you will not have perfect peace with God in your heart for very long, if ever.

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"""""""""By the whichwill we are sanctified = through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.""""""

Whats the point of this important verse?

1.) You are SANCTIFIED = by the body of Jesus being given on the Cross.
This means that you can't do this yourself by striving and trying by self effort.
You are ALREDY ... in God's perspective, = Sanctified. This is why you are "accepted in the Beloved.".

2. ) "ONCE AND FOR ALL"...... So, you are once and for all saved, born again, and sanctified. You are forever "once and for all", made the "righteousness of God in Christ", which means you have to start seeing yourself as this all the time. = "as Christ IS, so are the born again in this WORLD"..
Let this put an end to your concern about,, "i have to keep my salvation". "i need to repent again and again and again, and confess"""......
And let this truth become your "once and for all" understanding that God has accepted you and will keep you always because OF the one time sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross = "the gift of Righteousness" becoming YOU.

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""""""But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;"""""

Once again, another NT proof verse that is showing you that God has completed your salvation for you and offered it, and you have it if you are born again.
"one sacrifice for sins,= forever"..
This means that all your sin is gone......paid for......removed. = The CROSS.
You have none..... you instead have the "righteousness of God in Christ".

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""""""For by one offering he hath perfected forever them that ARE sanctified.""""""

And again, Here is God trying to make you SEE that you are perfected, sanctified.....
So, if you are perfected, do you have to try to do it?
If you are PERFECTED, do you have to try to do it or keep it?
So, spend your discipleship not trying to be accepted, but rather spend it walking in the understanding (right Mind) that you are already sanctified and perfected and AT PEACE WITH GOD, always. And when you do this, you will find your mind loses sin consciousness and your holy lifestyle becomes not just available, but normal.

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""""""""" And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.""""""

Here is GOD telling you that He does not remember your sin.
So, why do you worry about it, and repent of it, when God does not remember it?
Romans 4:8

Its because you have misunderstood a few verses that became a stumbling stone to your faith, =thats why.

So, instead of staying in a state of wrong believing, .....get out of that carnal mind, and come into right believing, = BELIEVE that God does not remember your sin....
He will not. And why? Because Jesus has been judged for them ALL on the Cross.

You are free. But not until you SEE THIS and BELIEVE IT.
Once you do, then right believing become right living.
You have to get there in your FAITH.. You have to learn to see yourself as God has made you to be.... " As Christ IS....so are the born again....in this world".
RIGHT NOW, and forever.


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18"""""" Now where remission of sin is, there is no more offering for sin.""""""

Notice. = "where remission of sin IS"....... where this IS... Where is this? ??

Its in the life of all the born again.
SAINT = We all have "remission" of sin... This means, covering, pardon, and removal.
This is your position "in Christ", of being "made righteous".
It does not matter how you feel. .. See, you worry about how you feel, instead of BELIEVING RIGHT. So, never mind how you feel....only be available to believe the Truth.. The truth is, you are perfected, sanctified, AND made righteousess, and your sin GOD WILL REMEMBER NO MORE. = YOU ARE always at Peace with God. = Forever.
NOW, align your mind with all this NT truth.
SAINT = Believe RIGHT and you will find that this IS your power to live Holy.
Believe wrong and you never will.


Jesus wasn't judged for our sin...He was judged BY our sin.

This thread needs to be in a "Christian entertainment" section. It's too funny! :)
 
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Episkopos

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So you really don’t sin


The OP is justifying himself IN his sin. But he is right when he says...that in Christ is no sin.

Now then the problem is getting INTO Christ...being translated into the kingdom of God. And to do that one must sell all...abandon all, sacrifice all. God only accepts a perfect sacrifice. A full and complete consecration.
 

Behold

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So you really don’t sin

If there is "sin" found in the Blood Atonement then it would be possible.
And if there was "sin" found "in Christ" then it would be possible.

The reason you ask me about sin, is because you have no idea what being "under Grace" means, and you have no idea why what was once termed a "Sin" when a believer is under the law, is now referred to as a "work of the flesh". And its not likely that you'll be able to learn any of this from me, as you have an issue that 4 others here have, and that is that your opinion is your God.
Don't blame me for that one.
Blame you.
 

Behold

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The OP is justifying himself IN his sin. But he is right when he says...that in Christ is no sin.

Im "in Christ".
And, in Christ there is no sin, found.
I have the very "righteousness of God" as mine, as "the gift of Righteousness".
Jesus became my sin on the Cross, and i became His Righteousness = born again.
All the born again are the same.. we are all "in Christ", "justified"...... having received the "atonement" that credits us for eternity with the very Righteousness of God, as our own.
This is the "finished work of the Cross", as it establishes us "in Christ".

You have to be born again to have this.....episkopos.
So, Talking about works and denying the truth, spitting on Grace, and refusing to accept Jesus on the Cross as God's offer of eternal Redemption, won't accomplish it for you.
"you must be born again".
 

Behold

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So you really don’t sin

Let me explain what is wrong with you.
Its this....
Apparently, from the day you were saved, if you are ... you have been deceived by someone- church - denomiation - pope - priest - bishop- .. who led you to think and believe that you are ONLY a ""saved sinner"", who is going to SIN and SIN, and you will then need to repent and repent and confess.....for the rest of your life.
And THIS is your entire Christian life, doing that.....so far.

And because you live this way, and think this way, and perceive "christianity" as ....'"sinning and repenting"".....then you think that everyone is as deceived as you are, including me.
I assure you, that i dont have your failed Christianity. I dont spend any time repenting, and i dont have a care in the world about "confessing".
Im not YOU, 2chr34:19

You are the one that has been deceived and faith ruined, and because of this, you have ignorantly assumed that Christianity can't possibly be VICTORY OVER SIN, but instead it has to be like yours.......sinning and repenting as a lifestyle.
I dont have your ruined faith, and i dont have an issue with wrong believing regarding the Blood Atonement.
So, you would rather continue to sin and confess, instead of listen to someone who can help you come OUT of that false christianity.

So, thats your issue.
Its not mine.

You sin, and you repent, and you think that im supposed to do it, because you do.

GUESS AGAIN !
 

Behold

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What an amazing Epistle! all about Christ is indeed "better" than anything that went before or ever could be.

Christ is : Salvation, Eternal Life, Grace of God, Resurrection, and the Blood Atonement.
Christ is : eternal security, hope for tomorrow, help for today.
We the born again are : "In Christ".
We have all that, as ours....forever.
 
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2 Chr. 34:19

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If there is "sin" found in the Blood Atonement then it would be possible.
And if there was "sin" found "in Christ" then it would be possible.

The reason you ask me about sin, is because you have no idea what being "under Grace" means, and you have no idea why what was once termed a "Sin" when a believer is under the law, is now referred to as a "work of the flesh". And its not likely that you'll be able to learn any of this from me, as you have an issue that 4 others here have, and that is that your opinion is your God.
Don't blame me for that one.
Blame you.
Works of the flesh=sin
1 John 2:16
For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world.
 

2 Chr. 34:19

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Let me explain what is wrong with you.
Its this....
Apparently, from the day you were saved, if you are ... you have been deceived by someone- church - denomiation - pope - priest - bishop- .. who led you to think and believe that you are ONLY a ""saved sinner"", who is going to SIN and SIN, and you will then need to repent and repent and confess.....for the rest of your life.
And THIS is your entire Christian life, doing that.....so far.

And because you live this way, and think this way, and perceive "christianity" as ....'"sinning and repenting"".....then you think that everyone is as deceived as you are, including me.
I assure you, that i dont have your failed Christianity. I dont spend any time repenting, and i dont have a care in the world about "confessing".
Im not YOU, 2chr34:19

You are the one that has been deceived and faith ruined, and because of this, you have ignorantly assumed that Christianity can't possibly be VICTORY OVER SIN, but instead it has to be like yours.......sinning and repenting as a lifestyle.
I dont have your ruined faith, and i dont have an issue with wrong believing regarding the Blood Atonement.
So, you would rather continue to sin and confess, instead of listen to someone who can help you come OUT of that false christianity.

So, thats your issue.
Its not mine.

You sin, and you repent, and you think that im supposed to do it, because you do.

GUESS AGAIN !
Spot on. Thank-you for telling me what is wrong with me. Numbers 6:24-26
 

Behold

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Works of the flesh=sin
1 John 2:16
For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world.

These are the works of the flesh...
Not "sin".
Sin, is only found "under the law"....so, unless you are an unbeliever, then the Law has no dominion over you and can't define you, or what you do.
All the born again are "under GRACE" and Grace does not define you as a sinner or your behavior as anything but a carnal deed, or a "work of the flesh".

Here are the works of the flesh....

Galatians 5:19-21
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings
 

Behold

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Spot on. Thank-you for telling me what is wrong with me. Numbers 6:24-26

Want a solution that does not involve studying what i teach?

then here is one.....
Stop living in the OLD TESTAMENT.
Thats got to happen, before you can even begin to start living in the NEW COVENANT.

Your alt name is OT.
Your responses are OT.

GET OUT OF THE OT.
Jesus didnt die so that you can live in the OT.
He established the NEW> with His BLOOD......so find your way THERE,..2chr34:19
 

Giuliano

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No, Jesus was judged in Our Place, on the Cross, for OUR sin.
You should allow him to do it for you.
Where do you get such ideas?

I wonder why there will be a Judgment Day then. God would already have seen all mankind as innocent. Who are the goats and who are the sheep? Why preach the Gospel to anyone if Jesus has already been judged for our sins? Why read the Bible or go to church? Why pray? Why do anything?

Paul tells us what the "law of Christ" is. It is true that Jesus can and will bear our burdens, but that is when we are too weak to bear them ourselves. As we mature, we are expected to bear our own -- and to help our neighbors bear their burdens.

Galatians 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
3 For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.
4 But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.
5 For every man shall bear his own burden.

Jesus said something similar.

Matthew 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

You have a low opinion of man. I tell you God has a much better plan for men and women than you think. We can amount to something. We can become loving and righteous people. God did not make trash. We fell, yes, and we can act like trash -- but God has better things in store for us than to allow us to pretend to be trash while He pretends everything is okay.


 
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Giuliano

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You sin, and you repent, and you think that im supposed to do it, because you do.

GUESS AGAIN !
My guess is you think it's better to sin and not repent.

That means I could steal your car and it would be okay as long as I didn't make the mistake of being sorry for it. Did Jesus come to suffer and die in this world so we could live like monsters without caring how our actions hurt others?
 
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Enoch111

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Thank-you for telling me what is wrong with me.
Behold has become (or considers himself to be) an expert on the spiritual condition of others (just ignore his remarks).

In other words, he has the delusion that he himself is God, knowing the hearts of Christians. That is similar to Mormon theology, where every Mormon is evolving to become God. But "Behold" has already arrived. Another Joseph Smith!
 

Enoch111

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What an amazing Epistle! all about Christ is indeed "better" than anything that went before or ever could be.
Yes. It is an amazing epistle. But not to be used for a warped theology.
 

Episkopos

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No, Jesus was judged in Our Place, on the Cross, for OUR sin.
You should allow him to do it for you.


This is backwards. God didn't judge His Son. People did. The bible says wicked men. What you are missing is that there is a difference between God...who is holy ...and wicked men...who are not holy. (that's why they do wicked things)

Acts 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

God allows wicked things to happen...and can use them for His plans. But that is not the same as God doing the wicked things.

Like God is not responsible for all the errors you post here. But He allows it! :)
 

Episkopos

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Im "in Christ".
And, in Christ there is no sin, found.
I have the very "righteousness of God" as mine, as "the gift of Righteousness".
Jesus became my sin on the Cross, and i became His Righteousness = born again.
All the born again are the same.. we are all "in Christ", "justified"...... having received the "atonement" that credits us for eternity with the very Righteousness of God, as our own.
This is the "finished work of the Cross", as it establishes us "in Christ".

You have to be born again to have this.....episkopos.
So, Talking about works and denying the truth, spitting on Grace, and refusing to accept Jesus on the Cross as God's offer of eternal Redemption, won't accomplish it for you.
"you must be born again".


Not so much!


Being born again is not the same as abiding in Him. Just like going through a narrow door doesn't mean you are continuing on the narrow path. One is an event and the other is a process. You are teaching the false doctrine of resting on the first gift as if nothing else is required of a person. And if you died right away...that would be so.

But if you continue to live...more is expected of you. The Christian experience is a daily walk. Salvation is a process of becoming more like Christ. To whom much is given MORE is required. So this idea of a race with only one step leads you and those who listen to you to a disqualification of any promise in the bible. Run so as to inherit the promises. Run to win!
 

Behold

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Where do you get such ideas?

I wonder why there will be a Judgment Day then.

I get my theology from Paul.
"Pauline Theology".
Go and research this, and then you'll not be so confused when you read my Threads and Posts.....and until you do come into alignment with Paul's theology, , your religion is going to have trouble flowing with the Grace of God, as evidenced by every word you have posted to me, since i showed up.

Its just like this idea you have of "judgment day".
Are you a Mormon or a JW?
As your whole theological concept is so odd.
It not as wild and off the mark as Episkopos.., so be thankful.

Listen, there is no JUDGEMENT DAY for the born again.., regarding SIN.
This was resolved by the CROSS.
God does not JUDGE FOR SIN the born again after they die, when He has already judged JESUS on the Cross, for the sin of the world.
Listen, the born again meet God as FATHER......Not as JUDGE......And you have no idea about this, and that is quite amazing.
"Judgment day", is Revelation 20:11,.... Giuliano....and its reserved only for the UNBELIEVERS = Christ rejectors, who were never born again, or as Jesus says of them...."depart, i never knew you"...

There is however, a "bema" seat.....a judgment seat of Christ, that is for the born again, where Christ will deal with the born again regarding our works we did for Him, "in His body".....as believers.. but this is not a judgment for SIN.. This is the Redeemer meeting His Redeemed, His BLOOD BOUGHT = in Heaven, and that will be a beautiful experience, tho, it will be a sobering one, also.