How can anyone fall for the errors of Calvinism ?

[dhh712]

Of course not. That's just a terrible caricature of what we are saying. It is not that we "don't have a choice," or even that we "don't make this choice freely." We do have a choice, and we must make it, but the question of who is elect of God and who is not does not depend on our choice, but on God's, who has mercy upon whom He will have mercy, and compassion upon whom He will have compassion. God Himself says this to Moses, and Paul cites God's words to Moses in Romans 9:

"...when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad ~ in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of Him who calls ~ she was told, 'The older will serve the younger.' As it is written, 'Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.' What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means! For He says to Moses, 'I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.' So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, 'For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show My power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.' So then He has mercy on whomever He wills, and He hardens whomever He wills." (Romans 9:10-18)​

So, do we elect ourselves unto salvation? Well of course not. It is God's purpose of election, not ours.

Before the point that we are born again by the Spirit, God is not our Father, and thus we are not of God. So, our choice regarding God's great salvation will without fail be to dismiss it. This is because our father is the devil, and our desire, therefore, is to do his desires. This is what Jesus says to the Jews in John 8, that, well:

"They answered him, 'Abraham is our father.' Jesus said to them, 'If you were Abraham’s children, you would be doing the works Abraham did, but now you seek to kill Me, a man Who has told you the truth that I heard from God. This is not what Abraham did. You are doing the works your father did.' They said to him, 'We were not born of sexual immorality. We have one Father ~ even God.' Jesus said to them, 'If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I came from God and I am here. I came not of My own accord, but He sent me. Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to hear my word. You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father’s desires.'" (John 8:39-44a)​

And in John 10, Jesus hits this point again:

"At that time the Feast of Dedication took place at Jerusalem. It was winter, and Jesus was walking in the temple, in the colonnade of Solomon. So the Jews gathered around Him and said to Him, 'How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly.' Jesus answered them, 'I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name bear witness about Me, but you do not believe because you are not among My sheep.'" (John 10:22-26)​

God is completely sovereign over all His creation. As Jesus says, "No one can come to Me unless the Father Who sent Me draws him" (John 6:44). It's not that we "can't make a choice," or that we "don't have free-will," but that our choice, our free-will, will always be otherwise unless and until we are drawn by the Father. And later, He says to His disciples, "You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide" (John 15:16). And Paul says this very thing of all of us Christians in Ephesians 2:8-10, that "...by grace we have been saved through faith, and this is not our own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast, for we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them." This is admittedly a hard truth to digest, for many reasons, but truth it is.


Ah! Very interesting that you put it that way. God frees us from slavery to unrighteousness. This is what Paul says in Romans 6:

"Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? We were buried therefore with Him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life. For if we have been united with Him in a death like His, we shall certainly be united with Him in a resurrection like His. We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. For one who has died has been set free from sin." (Romans 6:1-7)​

You see? Well, perhaps not, but it's... right there.

Grace and peace to all.

Time and time again, we point out the verses in Scripture which point to God's sovereignty in salvation, but over and over again it's the same type of responses. And I don't know how many times I've said it -- I feel like a broken record now-- in my own conversion I most definitely was not a puppet on a string: of my own volition I chose God, it was my own choice to come to him. Again, salvation is 100% God and 100% man. That is what God reveals in his word.

Calvinism is often not well understood by those who deride it and make it into a caricature of what it is due to their poor understanding of it. For instance, I do not believe there are any infants who will be in hell. It is Jesus alone who saves and though the usual means of salvation is our actively believing upon Him, this in no way precludes God saving in other ways simply by bestowing salvation upon those who have no mental capacity to receive Him-- such as very small children and mentally incapacitated individuals.

As we stated before, God has declared that he will have mercy upon those whom he will have mercy. Those who die infancy I believe God bestows mercy on them by sparing them the hardships of this life and receiving them into his kingdom.

It is plain in Scripture that it is God who must act in order for anyone to be saved. Therefore, he does not act for all to be saved. I believe it is in Romans where the apostle, by the authorship of the Holy Spirit, describes how God has created vessels for destruction. And who are you, O man, to question God for His actions? If this makes God a monster to you, I am truly sorry you feel that way about the God who is revealed in the Bible. But God needs no one to apologize for him. This is his world and we are his creation. He owes us nothing, but he has bestowed on us blessings beyond measure, the greatest of which is to be reconciled to Him through Jesus.

 

[Scott Downey]

We are only free in Christ from sin, otherwise sin has the mastery over us, and all mankind before God enlightened us to the gospel by making in us a new spirit and giving us a new heart, we were all blinded to the light of the gospel by the devil.

Everyone always makes choices about God and Christ, who they are, those who are following the devil and unenlightened by God will always make the bad choice.

Something not mentioned yet is the unsaved have enmity in their heart against Christ. Only Christ can wipe that enmity away. And that is by His choice. God is under no obligations to man as all unsaved men are sinful creatures and following the devil, whether they know it or not.

1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

 

[dhh712]

That is a pretty good outline of the doctrines of Calvinism. Like I said God Almighty has the power to do anything that He wants and that includes the power to predestinate and clairvoyance. And I am sure there are some rare instances that He does predestinate individuals and events. But it would serve no purpose to apply it to all reality and make a planet of puppets, except an evil objective and God is not going to use His power for evil.

God works with people....God generally does not control people. And yes we are free to choose Christ and those that chose Christ are the elect. No one is forced to be a Christian, at least very few....it would serve no purpose.

Of course not. That's just a terrible caricature of what we are saying. It is not that we "don't have a choice," or even that we "don't make this choice freely." We do have a choice, and we must make it, but the question of who is elect of God and who is not does not depend on our choice, but on God's, who has mercy upon whom He will have mercy, and compassion upon whom He will have compassion.

Sorry but this looks like double talk. The whole argument against Calvinism is free-will. If Calvinists believed in free-will that would change the debate. Calvinists believe the destiny of all is made by God before creation. This is another well known fact.

Yes, God has ordained everything from the beginning and all we do is out of our own free will. He has ordained all our actions though we do them freely, not controlled like an automaton. How this can be, we cannot understand. God is not limited to the confines of our finite logic. But it is because He is God and is sovereign over all things. When we are dwelling with our Heavenly Father we will understand this better.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

As we stated before, God has declared that he will have mercy upon those whom he will have mercy. Those who die infancy I believe God bestows mercy on them by sparing them the hardships of this life and receiving them into his kingdom.

I would be careful making any declaration here! Teh bible does not say if God has mercy on babies who die! We shouldn't either. If He chooses to- He has told us its none of our business. but we do know that Unless one is born again- they are not saved!

It is Jesus alone who saves and though the usual means of salvation is our actively believing upon Him, this in no way precludes God saving in other ways simply by bestowing salvation upon those who have no mental capacity to receive Him-- such as very small children and mentally incapacitated individuals.

If we are to use Scriptures as our final arbiter of what to believe on spiritual matters- this is a very problematic statement. Why?

Ephesians 2
King James Version

2 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

If God chooses to save the mentally challenged and infants- it is not for us to declare for He did not explicitly or even implicitly say so. It is this concept you promote here that causes so very many to profess that those who never hear the gospel and never heard teh name Christ can be saved another way that is not prescribed by SCripture.

These are hard statements but true nonetheless.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Yes, God has ordained everything from the beginning and all we do is out of our own free will. He has ordained all our actions though we do them freely, not controlled like an automaton. How this can be, we cannot understand. God is not limited to the confines of our finite logic. But it is because He is God and is sovereign over all things. When we are dwelling with our Heavenly Father we will understand this better.

Well from 49 years of walking with jesus and studying Scripture, I can only see this in SCripture.

1. Unsaved man is fallen and dead in his trespasses and sins. He has no free will to choose God. He may have volitional choices for this life (what toeat, wear etc.) But has no capacity to choose or understand teh things of God.

2. Once th elect come to slavation, free will is restored! Only the saved have the ability to freely choose God or not choose God (sin) the unsaved can only sin.

 

[Scott Downey]

For the unsaved who have a carnal mind live only after the flesh (being spiritually dead)
And they can not be submitted to the law of God, it is totally impossible.
Therefore the unsaved, non born again people will never believe in Christ, and can not actually ever obey God's command to repent and believe in His Son.

Romans 8
5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.

8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

Acts 17
30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent,
31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”

If you who do not think calvanism is genuine, were to understand that we can not be saved and believe unless first born again, that would remove the enmity in your mind against God choosing His elect from before time began.

 

[atpollard]

It is the non-Calvinist that refuses to correctly define “free will”.
Is your Will Free to live a completely sinless life and deserve a place in heaven without the need for a savior? (If not, then why not?)

 

[Grailhunter]

Time and time again, we point out the verses in Scripture which point to God's sovereignty in salvation, but over and over again it's the same type of responses.

Well the responses are going to be the same. What Calvinists propose is that God does very evil things. Putting forth the effort to find the scriptures to support that suggests an intent. The theology of Calvinism is false and blasphemous and that is a black mark on the religion, the effort is what gives the people a bad name. The Jehovah's Witnesses do the same thing, they comb the Bible looking for scriptures to prove that Yeshua was not a God. So people are going to wonder, what is the character of a person that goes to the Bible and exerts such effort to prove bad things about God?

The other side of the coin is....are there people that like the idea of being a robot or puppet under the control of God?
The fixation on being the elect....does this make people feel special or better than others?
Are there people that have a persecutions complex?....So they pick these odd ball blasphemous religions so people will not like them. Or is it away of getting attention?

A lot of people that claim to be satanic witches do it for the attention or to be different. '

s sovereignty in salvation, but over and over again it's the same type of responses. And I don't know how many times I've said it --

That maybe what you think or feel but that is not the doctrine of Calvinism. If you do not believe in total predestination and the five points of Calvinism....are you a Calvinist? I have had people that claim to be Calvinist explain that they do not totally agree with Calvinism....And that is no surprise. Some do it because their family is Calvinists. With so many variances of beliefs it stands to reason that there will be a lot of individuals that do not agree totally. Trust me when I tell you that preachers know this.....that the beliefs that are sitting in the pews maybe different than what they are preaching.

Calvinism is often not well understood by those who deride it and make it into a caricature of what it is due to their poor understanding of it.

I understand Calvinism....no mystery or misunderstandings. Calvinism is well documented.

I do not believe there are any infants who will be in hell.

Why not? But this belief is not a documented doctrine of Calvinism. It is history....it is said that John Calvin said this and believed this. Some Calvinists agree....Thinking that God Knows the future and some of the baby's future was evil, so God killed them and sent them to hell.

It is plain in Scripture that it is God who must act in order for anyone to be saved.

Touching someone heart or extending an invitation is one thing....forcing them is another.

And who are you, O man, to question God for His actions? If this makes God a monster to you, I am truly sorry you feel that way about the God who is revealed in the Bible.

Well again some people are comfortable about worshipping evil.....that they expect it from God....that they agree with.....Religion as a lottery.

 

[Grailhunter]

Yes, God has ordained everything from the beginning and all we do is out of our own free will. He has ordained all our actions though we do them freely, not controlled like an automaton. How this can be, we cannot understand. God is not limited to the confines of our finite logic. But it is because He is God and is sovereign over all things. When we are dwelling with our Heavenly Father we will understand this better.

LOL Contradiction of terms!
I am free to be under the control of God?
I make my own choices but God ordained / predestined it before creation and no one can deviate.
A religion of not understanding pretty much defines Calvinism.

When we are dwelling with our Heavenly Father we will understand this better.
Do you think you will be a robot in Heaven. And could there be a explanation why God enslaved the world?

 

[Grailhunter]

It is the non-Calvinist that refuses to correctly define “free will”.
Is your Will Free to live a completely sinless life and deserve a place in heaven without the need for a savior? (If not, then why not?)

Saved by Christ.....There will be Good people in Hell and there will be bad Christians in Hell.

 

[Scott Downey]

Here is another good summation of some main doctrines of Calvinism.

2 Timothy 1
8 Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me His prisoner, but share with me in the sufferings for the gospel according to the power of God, 9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,

10 but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel,

11 to which I was appointed a preacher, an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.

12 For this reason I also suffer these things; nevertheless, I am not ashamed, for I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep what I have committed to Him until that Day.

v9 is Total depravity, since it's not according to our works which are dirty filthy rags and we unworthy.
v9 is unconditional election, since Christ was given to us to be our savior before time began.
v9 and 10 is limited atonement, given to us to be saved, not the others who are of the world are not mentioned for salvation, from the beginning before time began. Only our sins are forgiven, atoned for by His blood, not the sins of the unbelieving.
v9 is irresistible grace (holy calling, His purpose and grace)
v12 is obviously perseverance of the saints. He keeps what we have entrusted to Him, our salvation.


TULIP is in there if you think about it.

 

[Grailhunter]

Here is another good summation of some main doctrines of Calvinism.

2 Timothy 1
8 Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me His prisoner, but share with me in the sufferings for the gospel according to the power of God, 9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,

10 but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel,

11 to which I was appointed a preacher, an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.

12 For this reason I also suffer these things; nevertheless, I am not ashamed, for I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep what I have committed to Him until that Day.

v9 is Total depravity, since it's not according to our works which are dirty filthy rags and we unworthy.
v9 is unconditional election, since Christ was given to us to be our savior before time began.
v9 and 10 is limited atonement, given to us to be saved, not the others who are of the world are not mentioned for salvation, from the beginning before time began. Only our sins are forgiven, atoned for by His blood, not the sins of the unbelieving.
v9 is irresistible grace (holy calling, His purpose and grace)
v12 is obviously perseverance of the saints. He keeps what we have entrusted to Him, our salvation.


TULIP is in there if you think about it.

I agree that is what Calvinists do, they search the scriptures to support their blasphemy. Like I said the Jehovah's Witnesses do the same thing. Sometimes it is as important to know what the scripture cannot mean....Like the one where Christ says we must hate our mother and father to be His disciple.

The problem is that it goes against the overall Spirit of Christ and Christianity. It is contrary to the storyline of the Bible. If God predestined people to believe.....they would just believe and the there would have been no need for the Apostles to travel to spread the Word. They could have stayed home and barbequed. Then there is the fact that the concept of total predestination serves no purpose.

 

[Prim]

I would never join any group that gets their beliefs using scripture to dismiss and contradict other scripture. Most do not know Calvin was a Roman Catholic lawyer that became a theologian, and the apple didn’t fall far from the tree. The gospel was given and paid for by Jesus not the Apostle Paul. Paul taught the very same gospel as Jesus. The good news is even though we have all sinned against God if you will believe and place your faith in Jesus repent and follow Jesus you will be saved just as Paul told the jailer what he had to do be saved was believe.

These continuing attacks on Calvinism I find most amusing. All Calvin ever said and stated is that God chooses and not.man. It’s nothing really new with it in going all the way back to Saint Augustine and the Bible itself. You mention placing your faith in Jesus. Where does that faith come from to believe ? It clearly comes from God. As to the gospel being given and paid by Jesus and not Paul. I think the entirety of scripture comes under the inspiration of God category does it not and not only the gospels.

 

[Grailhunter]

These continuing attacks on Calvinism I find most amusing.

When you are part of a religion where truth stands against you.....you are on the wrong side.

All Calvin ever said and stated is that God chooses and not.man.

Well I do not think you can find that statement in the documented beliefs of Calvinism.

It’s nothing really new with it in going all the way back to Saint Augustine

John Calvin was confused and St. Augustine was nuts!

You mention placing your faith in Jesus. Where does that faith come from to believe ?

Back in the biblical era it was Christ and the Apostles and they went to them to spread the Gospel so people could choose to believe.
Now it is matter of choosing to pick up the Bible.

s to the gospel being given and paid by Jesus and not Paul. I think the entirety of scripture comes under the inspiration of God category does it not and not only the gospels.

Paid? I do not have any problems with Christ or the Apostles.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I would never join any group that gets their beliefs using scripture to dismiss and contradict other scripture. Most do not know Calvin was a Roman Catholic lawyer that became a theologian, and the apple didn’t fall far from the tree. The gospel was given and paid for by Jesus not the Apostle Paul. Paul taught the very same gospel as Jesus. The good news is even though we have all sinned against God if you will believe and place your faith in Jesus repent and follow Jesus you will be saved just as Paul told the jailer what he had to do be saved was believe.

Yes, but some "believe" in the wrong way and use grace as a covering for sinning. Those who actually believe, do so by first repenting of their sin to receive Christ's powerful Spirit to free us from the desire to sin.

 

[Prim]

When you are part of a religion where truth stands against you.....you are on the wrong side.



Well I do not think you can find that statement in the documented beliefs of Calvinism.



John Calvin was confused and St. Augustine was nuts!



Back in the biblical era it was Christ and the Apostles and they went to them to spread the Gospel so people could choose to believe.
Now it is matter of choosing to pick up the Bible.



Paid? I do not have any problems with Christ or the Apostles.

Your trying to tell me that Calvin never wrote about that. That God chooses and not man. Well I don’t know how well you have read his publications but he certainly did. So what is you contention with the man ? You say ( back in the biblical era it was Christ and the Apostles and they went to them and spread the gospel so people could choose to believe. Now it be a matter of choosing to pick up the bible ) yes that’s generally what Christians have been doing for the past 2 thousand years. So what’s your point? But it is still God that gives the power of faith to believe. As to John Calvin being confused. Not so confused in that he nearly wrote a entire commentary on the entire Bible and believed very much in Sola Scriptoria alone which was the foundation of the reformation. As to Saint Augustine bring nuts . In what ways? Some of the church fathers certainly have chequered pasts some even heretical I can’t remember Augustine being one of them nor classified as a nut.

 

[Scott Downey]

I agree that is what Calvinists do, they search the scriptures to support their blasphemy. Like I said the Jehovah's Witnesses do the same thing. Sometimes it is as important to know what the scripture cannot mean....Like the one where Christ says we must hate our mother and father to be His disciple.

The problem is that it goes against the overall Spirit of Christ and Christianity. It is contrary to the storyline of the Bible. If God predestined people to believe.....they would just believe and the there would have been no need for the Apostles to travel to spread the Word. They could have stayed home and barbequed. Then there is the fact that the concept of total predestination serves no purpose.

Actually, predestination serves God's purposes, one of which is this, God building His church so that Christ would have a family.
It is really very clearly written down. There are more reasons including for the glory of God.

Romans 8:29
For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

 

[Grailhunter]

Your trying to tell me that Calvin never wrote about that.

No I am not saying that.

That God chooses and not man. Well I don’t know how well you have read his publications but he certainly did.

The thing is when it comes to the scriptures....words mean things

When you are talking Calvinism, which next to the Catholic Church is one of the best documented religions in history, there is no reason to paraphrase. Very specific points and changing the words or moving them around can change the meaning.

You say ( back in the biblical era it was Christ and the Apostles and they went to them and spread the gospel so people could choose to believe. Now it be a matter of choosing to pick up the bible ) yes that’s generally what Christians have been doing for the past 2 thousand years do what’s your point?

God did not just predestined that they would believe a certain thing....it did not just appear in their minds. Christ and the Apostles traveled to them to spread the truth of the Gospels and some choose to believe. Now a days it is more complicated....we may look at modern cultures in a negative manner but still most people understand the basics of Christianity. And I am not going to ignore the works of the Holy Spirit but a person my become curious or reach a point in their life and pick up a Bible to understand the details....The Gideons! Maybe they are bored in a Hotel.

But it is still God that gives the power of faith to believe.

That is a matter of debate and discussion....
The more faith we put in God, the more we allow God to direct our lives.
There is no doubt that the "power" of faith comes from God.
But people can have varying degrees of faith. The more faith you choose to have the better.
Some believe that a person's faith can affect many things....that comes from the person.
God does not give them faith or force faith on them, He gives them the opportunity to make a choice.

believed very much in Sola Scriptoria alone which was the foundation of the reformation.

This statement is problematic because it is not defined. People like to say they are Sola Scriptoria because it sounds good but the Question is how? Can they be? How many denomination profess Sola Scriptoria? More than 30,000 different denominations, which one is Sola Scripture? How many people believe the world is flat? Do you believe the Apostles were living in the last days? It is more accurate to say our interpretations are from Sola Scriptoria. But even then that is not accurate because to some degree Christianity changed over the 2000 years. Christianity placed a moratorium on polygamy and concubinage and then the Protestants then required a marriage ceremony to be married and introduced a focus on the family....none of that is in the Bible.

As to Saint Augustine bring nuts

The good thing about Augustine is that he wrote books about himself and you can buy them. He admitted that he was the most out of control person he knew. Could not control himself with women so he thought no one could. Messed up his life so much that he developed a hatred for sex and women and his way of controlling it was isolating himself from women. His doctrine of Original Sin was due to his hatred of sex and woman. Sin is like a virus, if you procreate you sin, if you produce a child, you have also produced sin. That women were instruments of the devil to lead us good men to perdition. Read all about it in his writings.

The only Commandment that Yahweh kept repeating in the Old Testament was to be fruitful and multiply...God did not command sin. His Promise to His champions was that their descendants would like the sand of the shore...the dust of the earth and the stars in the sky. He was not promising sin.

 

[Grailhunter]

Actually, predestination serves God's purposes, one of which is this, God building His church so that Christ would have a family.
It is really very clearly written down. There are more reasons including for the glory of God.

Romans 8:29
For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

God has the power of predestination and He can kill......But He did not make all of reality a puppet show or kill everyone on earth at birth.

 

[Scott Downey]

2 Corinthians 3
7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?

9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. 10 For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels. 11 For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious.

Not everyone is a member of the New Covenant family of God. Everything God does, he does for his glory. Including the Old Covenant ministry of condemnation.

Romans 11:36
For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen.