How Important Truth?

[Taken]

Let us not be fooled into the Catholic line of reasoning

I definitely am not.

that purports to recount history as anyone who was different from Catholicism, was outside of "truth". Remember, the victors always write the history. Catholicism, through war, persecution, and the armed might of the civil authority, trampled their way to the top of the woodpile like a he goat in rutting season, and attacked anyone or anything who rejected their authority.
There were, before and after the Papacy established itself in the 6th century, in Britain, Italy, France, Africa, and all countries from the middle east to China, churches, even nations, that worshiped God and believed in the sacrifice of His only Son. The only reason Rome became the center of European Christianity, was its political adulterous relationships with the kings of the earth, beginning with such as Clovis, Charlemagne, and

Can broadly agree with that..

continues today with all recent Presidents such as Reagan, Bush, Ford, Clinton, and now Trump,

I have a different view concerning US Presidents.

along with the European leaders such as Angela Merkel.

Can't comment on her stance.

Protestants today are hopelessly ignorant of history,

Can't give Protestants all the credit...seems more like, PEOPLE in general fit in that catagory...."secular" and "religiously".

and have no idea of the wonderful exploits of Christians throughout the ages who stood for truth and the right of a free conscience. The story of such as the Waldenses, twisted beyond recognition by Papal historical revisionists, were absolute heroes and if there was a Bible to be written that included a chapter on peoples of faith since the book of Acts, the Waldenses, the Celtic church in Britain, and the Assyrian church of the east would be front and center in a modern equivalent of Hebrews 11.

I find the TRUTH in Scripture and Christ Jesus' Doctrine, trumps all mens truths and doctrines.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[brakelite]

I find the TRUTH in Scripture and Christ Jesus' Doctrine, trumps all mens truths and doctrines.

Technically speaking, of course. But there are going to be untold numbers of people in glory who never had the rich understanding of Bible truth that we have the capacity to learn, yet they lived up to what light they had, knowing far less than us who have distinct advantages, but do not make the most of them, and disbelieve much of what we are presented with anyway. Truth matters...but not our learning of it so much as our acceptance of it when we learn it. Many have a broad understanding of scripture, with all the technical ins and outs of the ancient languages, and a dep understanding of the culture in which the scriptures were written, and are no closer to the kingdom of God than my pet dog.

 

[OzSpen]

@OzSpen . Pilate asked the same thing. I think my answer to Amadeus is closest. Truth is revelation... Light... Regarding mainly that which had previously been misunderstood, that is the character of God. Jesus came as a light to the world... To reveal the Father. It is a misapprehension regarding the character of God that leads to most other errors regards biblical truth.

brakelite,

I think you better examine the meaning of aletheia (NT Greek) and its various meanings in context to obtain the NT understanding of the word. "I think ... It is a misapprehension regarding the character of God" are not what I find in the epistemology and use of aletheia.

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

Strong's Concordance (225)
alétheia: truth
Original Word: ἀλήθεια, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: alétheia
Phonetic Spelling: (al-ay'-thi-a)
Definition: truth
Usage: truth, but not merely truth as spoken; truth of idea, reality, sincerity, truth in the moral sphere, divine truth revealed to man, straightforwardness.

While this word has several meanings, our focus is on "divine truth revealed to man". As to the usage in this verse, it contrasts true and false motives (sincerity) in the preaching of the Gospel. Paul says that regardless of the motive, if the Gospel is preached -- if Christ is preached -- he will rejoice. Presumably he is speaking about the true Gospel, otherwise if it were "another gospel" it would be accursed.

King James Bible
What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.
Christian Standard Bible
What does it matter? Only that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is proclaimed, and in this I rejoice. Yes, and I will continue to rejoice.

As I mentioned earlier the essence of spiritual warfare is the battle between divine truth and Satanic falsehood. We see this right at the beginning in Genesis 3.

enoch,

You listed some of the NT meanings of aletheia (truth) here. They include: Usage: truth (as opposed to falsehood), but not merely truth as spoken; truth of idea, reality (i.e. that which conforms with reality as opposed to appearance), sincerity, truth in the moral sphere, divine truth revealed to man, straightforwardness.

That's the whole range of meaning in the NT plus some more. The context determines the meaning.

Oz

 

[Taken]

Technically speaking, of course. But there are going to be untold numbers of people in glory who never had the rich understanding of Bible truth that we have the capacity to learn, yet they lived up to what light they had,

I call that being on the PATH, but at different DISTANCES.

knowing far less than us who have distinct advantages,

I call them privileged.

but do not make the most of them,

I call them, the content to have squeezed through the door, with no interest of what all is in the room.

and disbelieve much of what we are presented with anyway.

I call them, content with secular understanding.

So, as you mention specifics, so also have I observed and have my own views of what I call them...ha

Truth matters...but not our learning of it so much as our acceptance of it when we learn it.

Agree...and WHILE ALL Scripture IS TRUE...as the man "CHANGES".....The Scriptures that APPLY to that individual man "CHANGES'...

The WHOLE BIG PICTURE, is about "MEN CHANGING"...not the Truth, not the Scriptures.

And a BIG PROBLEM, with MANY religious organizations is they TEACH...

Men....Men....Do this...BECOME CHANGED......and oh BTW....the SAME OLD SCRIPTURES that APPLIED TO YOU....BEFORE you CHANGED...STILL APPLY TO YOU? HUH??

THAT...IMO, is the NUMBER ONE most corrupt teaching of modern churches...

Many have a broad understanding of scripture, with all the technical ins and outs of the ancient languages, and a dep understanding of the culture in which the scriptures were written,

Agree.

and are no closer to the kingdom of God than my pet dog.

And again...BECAUSE they are TAUGHT...scriptures that NO LONGER APPLY to them ... STILL APPLY TO THEM.

Nearly 1500 times "IF" is mentioned in Scripture...

Any time an individual "accomplishes" the "IF"......"THEN" something in the man BECOMES CHANGED....and the "IF" no longer applies....and the "Consequence" of an "unaccomplished" "IF" no longer applies...

ODD...how many Churches FAIL in teaching that TRUTH.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

enoch,

You listed some of the NT meanings of aletheia (truth) here. They include: Usage: truth (as opposed to falsehood), but not merely truth as spoken; truth of idea, reality (i.e. that which conforms with reality as opposed to appearance), sincerity, truth in the moral sphere, divine truth revealed to man, straightforwardness.

That's the whole range of meaning in the NT plus some more. The context determines the meaning.

Oz

Meanings of words, sure are according to mens logical and mindful understanding....
And TIME periods and cultures.

In English we have umpteen spoken words that mean different things.

The understanding of Scripture ACCORDING TO GODS UNDERSTANDING...is ONLY given a man .... BY GOD HIMSELF....and the language is no barrier.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

Meanings of words, sure are according to mens logical and mindful understanding....
And TIME periods and cultures.

In English we have umpteen spoken words that mean different things.

The understanding of Scripture ACCORDING TO GODS UNDERSTANDING...is ONLY given a man .... BY GOD HIMSELF....and the language is no barrier.

God Bless,
Taken

Ezekiel 13 is all you then, please interp "pillows" and "soft landings" ty

 

[farouk]

No doubt, this world is deteriorating at warp speed

...but we on the other hand need to keep looking up (Hebrews 12.2; 1 Corinthians 11.26).

 

[Nancy]

I recently watched the movie "Come Sunday" about the well known Pentecostal preacher, Carlton Pearson. Before the movie, I had never heard of him. But in his hay-day he was influential in bringing others to the forefront of the charismatic movement, such as TD Jakes and that ghastly woman, Joyce Meyer. I can sympathise with his dilemma as he struggled with the concept of hell, and the seeming contradiction between a "loving God" and eternal torment for people whose only claim to fame, was their ignorance regarding the gospel. Young children, knowing no better, consigned to an eternity in hell because they didn't even know about that favourite catch all phrase that saves good Pentecostal folk..."confess with their mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe He was raised from the dead".
When witnessing that Rwanda genocide, I can empathise with his questioning of the traditional teachings regarding hell and eternal torment. He had great courage in making a stand for what he believed God was revealing to hiI am glad you are here to tell the story m. I may not agree with his conclusion reaching as far as UR, but I can certainly stand with his courage, his honest convictions, and his willingness to follow his conscience. Such as one as he, who was willing to stand for what light he had received and willing to stand by it though the heavens fall, was not an act of heresy.

Oh wow. A horrible thing to read about or watch on video much less witness! Glad yer here to tell the story
As far as Carlton Pearson, I saw that movie too and it truly made me empathize with him as, those very thoughts have always plagued me. They are valid questions and I, personally do not think he was , treated fairly by his own "brethren"

 

[farouk]

Oh wow. A horrible thing to read about or watch on video much less witness! Glad yer here to tell the story
As far as Carlton Pearson, I saw that movie too and it truly made me empathize with him as, those very thoughts have always plagued me. They are valid questions and I, personally do not think he was , treated fairly by his own "brethren"

I do shrink from sensationalism... Although so many sad things do happen...

 

[farouk]

John 14.6; such an important, pivotal reference point for truth!

 

[Phoneman777]

I know what you mean. I tried telling people at bible study that they were Luciferians and one pastor told me I'd better watch what I read on the internet. I was humiliated and felt foolish until I got home and re-read some of the information that convinced me it was true. I spoke with someone who knows it's true and he told me not to get discouraged because a lot of Christians were in the dark about it. It is hard to believe, in the cold light of day, that those people who go before cameras with their suits and ties could commit unspeakable acts - I think we hope against hope that they're legitimate.

I was reading an article about how legislators are lying about them "doing all they can" about illegal drugs. They said that the opioid epidemic struck as soon as Bill Clinton signed NAFTA. The DEA knew that the cartels were packing illegal drugs among the manufactured goods where they were trucked into the heart of America. How abjectly evil must someone be to allow all those drugs to flood into every community and force the DEA to remain quiet? I don't think it's an accident, I think it's part of the depopulation agenda.

Look at what they're doing to the elderly with infirmities: denying them access to pain relief. Trump even ordered that less opiates be manufactured. You'd best hope that you don't get rushed to a hospital that has a shortage of painkillers after you've been in an auto accident. I'm telling you it's bad. I belong to a chronic pain group, and people all over the country are being hurt by the CDC guidelines. A number of vets have committed suicide, as well as others. Their doctors were afraid of the CDC and DEA so they cut the patient off. People with severe pain issues - such as vets having phantom limb pain, were left to suffer. A few committed suicide in the parking lot of the VA. It's insane. People who don't have an infirmity -yet- don't know this is going on. Wait until you have dental surgery done and the dentist gives you nothing for the pain. Wait until you undergo surgery and are given an ice pack or a few Norco. But you'd better believe that politicians aren't denied. There is something seriously wrong and patients are among the first to feel it. Our government is not supposed to be this strong. Our constitution is gone. Those who don't see it are among those enabling our government to become a government of wolves.

Most Christians are too cowardly to consider that what they think is a secure way of life will remain such. It will not. They don't want to consider that the day is fast approaching when following Jesus will no longer be safe for life and limb. The Luciferian elites have told us what they are planning to do, and their willing accomplices in the media, politics, academia, etc. are all too happy to advance their anti-Jesus agenda. That's why the Secret Rapture is so appealing. It allows Christians to remain blissfully ignorant of what's coming upon the world because they think they'll not be here to endure it.

 

[Waiting on him]

Most Christians are too cowardly to consider that what they think is a secure way of life will remain such. It will not. They don't want to consider that the day is fast approaching when following Jesus will no longer be safe for life and limb. The Luciferian elites have told us what they are planning to do, and their willing accomplices in the media, politics, academia, etc. are all too happy to advance their anti-Jesus agenda. That's why the Secret Rapture is so appealing. It allows Christians to remain blissfully ignorant of what's coming upon the world because they think they'll not be here to endure it.

James 5:6 KJV
[6] Ye have condemned and killed the just; and he doth not resist you.

Tecarta Bible

 

[Waiting on him]

James 5:6 KJV
[6] Ye have condemned and killed the just; and he doth not resist you.

Tecarta Bible

This is power

 

[farouk]

Most Christians are too cowardly to consider that what they think is a secure way of life will remain such. It will not. They don't want to consider that the day is fast approaching when following Jesus will no longer be safe for life and limb. The Luciferian elites have told us what they are planning to do, and their willing accomplices in the media, politics, academia, etc. are all too happy to advance their anti-Jesus agenda. That's why the Secret Rapture is so appealing. It allows Christians to remain blissfully ignorant of what's coming upon the world because they think they'll not be here to endure it.

1 Corinthians 11.26

 

[Waiting on him]

1 Corinthians 11.26

We have eternal security

 

[farouk]

We have eternal security

Romans 8.38-39.

I can't understand those who don't see eternal security clearly in Scripture...

 

[Waiting on him]

Romans 8.38-39.

I can't understand those who don't see eternal security clearly in Scripture...

People will do anything just to stay in this world one more minute, even write songs about it? Maybe it’s something he’s instilled in us

 

[farouk]

People will do anything just to stay in this world one more minute, even write songs about it? Maybe it’s something he’s instilled in us

By God's grace we should be able to say:

"Oh that I had wings like a dove! for then would I fly away, and be at rest." (Psalm 55.6)

 

[brakelite]

brakelite,

I think you better examine the meaning of aletheia (NT Greek) and its various meanings in context to obtain the NT understanding of the word. "I think ... It is a misapprehension regarding the character of God" are not what I find in the epistemology and use of aletheia.

Oz

Hi mate, I think the misapprehension concerning God's character bears fruit in disbelieving His word. And I did as you suggested. Looked up 'truth', and came across the following, that alethos is derived from a negative application of being ignorant. λανθάνω lanthano <Matt 14:33...so "of a truth, thou art the Son of God" could be worded, "I am not ignorant of who you are...I know the truth". Not being ignorant of who God is...what He is like...having an understanding of His character (which is bound up in and expressed in His name) is therefore the very first step in understanding anything else there is to be known of Him...IMHO.
In respect to aletheia however, I see it is a ery general and broad capture of "what is true"...
1) objectively
1a) what is true in any matter under consideration
1a1) truly, in truth, according to truth
1a2) of a truth, in reality, in fact, certainly
1b) what is true in things appertaining to God and the duties of man, moral and religious truth
1b1) in the greatest latitude
1b2) the true notions of God which are open to human reason without his supernatural intervention
1c) the truth as taught in the Christian religion, respecting God and the execution of his purposes through Christ, and respecting the duties of man, opposing alike to the superstitions of the Gentiles and the inventions of the Jews, and the corrupt opinions and precepts of false teachers even among Christians
2) subjectively
2a) truth as a personal excellence
2a1) that candour of mind which is free from affection, pretence, simulation, falsehood, deceit

The above bolded to me could well refer to God's character, particularly as it is maligned among non-believers as a direct result of wrong doctrine as taught by the church...and I propose eternal torment as being one prime example.