How Important Truth?

[charity]

From Blindness to Freedom to Hope.

Hello @Brakelight,

I have just read through, and rejoiced in your testimony, and am so glad to have done so. It is a blessing to see how the Lord drew you to Himself, with cords of love, and saved you by His grace. Praise His Holy Name!

I am glad to have looked beyond the avatar, and seen the man and his message of redeeming grace. I shake your hand in spirit, and say, 'Hello Brother-in-Christ'.

May God use your testimony to reach out to others, that you may be blessed and a blessing to others in turn; and that His Name be glorified in and through you

In Christ Jesus
our risen and glorified,
Saviour, Lord and Head.
Chris

 

[brakelite]

When there’s no more wood then there’s no fire.

Could we perhaps apply that analogy to hell????

 

[brakelite]

From Blindness to Freedom to Hope.

Hello @Brakelight,

I have just read through, and rejoiced in your testimony, and am so glad to have done so. It is a blessing to see how the Lord drew you to Himself, with cords of love, and saved you by His grace. Praise His Holy Name!

I am glad to have looked beyond the avatar, and seen the man and his message of redeeming grace. I shake your hand in spirit, and say, 'Hello Brother-in-Christ'.

May God use your testimony to reach out to others, that you may be blessed and a blessing to others in turn; and that His Name be glorified in and through you

In Christ Jesus
our risen and glorified,
Saviour, Lord and Head.
Chris

Thankyou for your encouragement. BTW, that testimony I wrote 5 years ago...so it is now 45 years in Christ and I am 66 now ...but I do still have a hope that I will witness the second coming, what a day that will be. May God bless and strengthen you in all your endeavors to share His love with the world.

 

[charity]

When there’s no more wood then there’s no fire.

Hello @"Waiting on Him",

That is an interesting comment. Thinking about it, and wondering what you mean't to convey by it, is proving quite fruitful. For the 'fire' which such 'wood' engenders usually finds it's form in division and strife, hot words and condemnation, such as is found in the worst of threads on the forum.

Yet, there is a 'fire' which is God-given I believe, which drives the believer on to
want to know and make known the Word and Will of God: and that is engendered by the Holy Spirit, which produces fruit of quite another sort; with love as it's driving force, love for God and for those for whom He came to die, and for whom He rose again, that they may live in newness of life before the Father.

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Waiting on him]

Hello @"Waiting on Him",

That is an interesting comment. Thinking about it, and wondering what you mean't to convey by it, is proving quite fruitful. For the 'fire' which such 'wood' engenders usually finds it's form in division and strife, hot words and condemnation, such as is found in the worst of threads on the forum.

Yet, there is a 'fire' which is god-given I believe, which drives the believer on to
want to know and make known the Word and Will of God: and that is engendered by the Holy Spirit, which produces fruit of quite another sort; with love as it's driving force, love for God and for those for whom He came to die, and for whom He rose again, that they may live in newness of life before the Father.

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Thank God he removes the wood that is in our eyes
Proverbs 26:21 KJV
[21] As coals are to burning coals, and wood to fire; so is a contentious man to kindle strife.

Tecarta Bible

 

[bbyrd009]

Looks like you are in the habit of re-defining everything. That would be a page out of the Ministry of Disinformation's manual. War is Peace. Hot is Cold. Eternal is Temporary. Mortal is Immortal.

well Enoch so you accuse me of changing the defs, but when we go look at the def of say "eternal" and find "eon" and " an age" rather than "forever," and then we even have an instance of "immortal" in Scripture for comparison that you have also challenged my interp of, but will not reply, what am I to do?

I'm not interested in making more enemies, ok, but see imo we have the Joe of A asking for Jesus' Body and getting His Carcass instead all over again, which since you are not able to confess yet and at your age I doubt you ever will I didn't expect you to acknowledge, but see the position you put me in here.

fwiw irl I would never contest with you like this, ok, bc I honestly don't care or judge what you believe.
Now if you have some evidence of your accusations up there then bam bring it, but wadr I find your characterization disingenuous at best, and so I am not going to spend the next half hour editing here to spare your feelings like I usually would. Have a nice day

 

[bbyrd009]

Thank God he removes the wood that is in our eyes

Things Jesus Didn't Say:
"First let God remove the beam from your eye...."

so no, sorry

 

[charity]

Thankyou for your encouragement. BTW, that testimony I wrote 5 years ago...so it is now 45 years in Christ and I am 66 now ...but I do still have a hope that I will witness the second coming, what a day that will be. May God bless and strengthen you in all your endeavors to share His love with the world.

'For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts,
we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing
of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
Who gave Himself for us,
that He might redeem us from all iniquity,
and purify unto Himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority.
Let no man despise thee.'
(Titus 2:11-15)
Hello @brakelite,

I am now in my 70th year, and praising God for His faithfulness and His keeping power. For I was saved way back in 1960.

I look for His 'appearing' in glory, when I too will appear with Him, along with all the members of the Body of Christ (Col. 3:4). God knows when that will be, I surely do not, but I do know it will happen, for He has said so.

'If ye then be risen with Christ,
seek those things which are above,
where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Set your affection on things above,
not on things on the earth.
For ye are dead,
and your life is hid with Christ in God.
When Christ, Who is our life, shall appear,
then shall ye also appear with Him in glory.
Mortify (or reckon as dead) therefore
your members which are upon the earth;
fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection,
evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh
on the children of disobedience: ... '
(Colossians 3:1)

Praise God!

With love in Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[brakelite]

Love that quote from Titus.

 

[bbyrd009]

Luke 22:36 Jesus says, “Let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one.”

yes, and you still believe a literal sword is what is in view wadr, when it surely is not, and I am not interested in the obv Scriptural reveal here when i guess it would not be acknowledged anyway, but Jesus said quite a few other things about swords that you might also consider, and "it is enough" is at least a quite cryptic reply to "two swords," I guess enough so that even google can help one out there

. I apologize for my approach with you, ok, I doubt you deserve most of that, and I understand why you seek your safety in your weapons, too. Best of luck to you SG

 

[charity]

Could we perhaps apply that analogy to hell????

Hello @brakelite,

That is one subject that Greek Philosophy and Tradition, along with man's use, misuse and abuse, has rendered a lie. However the 'fires' of Hell, which refer to end time judgement, and not to eternal conscious punishment for the sinner, certainly does engender strife and the hot 'fires' of misguided fervour.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Waiting on him]

Things Jesus Didn't Say:
"First let God remove the beam from your eye...."

so no, sorry

Ok,

 

[Soverign Grace]

yes, and you still believe a literal sword is what is in view wadr, when it surely is not, and I am not interested in the obv Scriptural reveal here when i guess it would not be acknowledged anyway, but Jesus said quite a few other things about swords that you might also consider, and "it is enough" is at least a quite cryptic reply to "two swords," I guess enough so that even google can help one out there

. I apologize for my approach with you, ok, I doubt you deserve most of that, and I understand why you seek your safety in your weapons, too. Best of luck to you SG

I wish the same to you as well.

 

[quietthinker]

I think that will be the safest option, yes. The time is coming when our opposition will all be claiming to be representing God...and having directly from God the authority to kill you as a faithful service to Him. God has never proposed that His people should defend their faith through physical fighting...on the contrary, He says...
9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness’ sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

I am convinced doing this is impossible when one has an M16 under his arm. Or even a baseball bat. Any future establishment of false religion and its supporting government (Babylon riding the beast) is a manifestation of the final attempt by Antichrist (Satan's pet baby) to instill a false worship through deception and ultimately government sanctioned and coerced false loyalty (the beast's mark)...and nowhere does God suggest that we resist this with any kind of rebellion, tactical warfare, armed insurrection, or armed defense. Weefuse, yes. We may have to run and hide, yes. But to physically fight? No.

My heart agrees with this but my body want redress. I saw a movie recently called 'The Brave One'. It evoked all manner of contradictory emotions one being the satisfaction in forced justice. It's thrust was about a couple who got violently mugged, the lady of which thereafter purchased a firearm.
Circumstances then colluded where pressure to defend herself violently rolled over into vigilante behaviours, you know, swift 'justice'.

I think of Daniel in the lions den or his three friends in the furnace....God is able to quench the power of the flames and shut the lions mouth.
Yes, we are to be witnesses of his character by submitting to his judgements not our own. My own says, get 'em back, my spirit says, God can and will deliver in his ways and in his time. Faith is trusting in God's judgement.

 

[brakelite]

My heart agrees with this but my body want redress. I saw a movie recently called 'The Brave One'. It evoked all manner of contradictory emotions one being the satisfaction in forced justice. It's thrust was about a couple who got violently mugged, the lady of which thereafter purchased a firearm.
Circumstances then colluded where pressure to defend herself violently rolled over into vigilante behaviours, you know, swift 'justice'.

I think of Daniel in the lions den or his three friends in the furnace....God is able to quench the power of the flames and shut the lions mouth.
Yes, we are to be witnesses of his character by submitting to his judgements not our own. My own says, get 'em back, my spirit says, God can and will deliver in his ways and in his time. Faith is trusting in God's judgement.

I get you. I have no problem with simply walking away from strife or shutting up...though you wouldn't think so after reading some of my posts here...where I have certain difficulties is in defending others. I can be quick to react when someone close to me is under fire...either verbally or physically...(and that includes my church). I find myself even defending God sometimes...I am not sure if He needs me to stand by and hold His hand LOL.
And of course yes! There is indeed a great deal of satisfaction in seeing justice done...even when...scratch that...especially when I am the one dishing it out. But those souls under the altar...they will be vindicated...as we all will.

 

[brakelite]

Hello @brakelite,

That is one subject that Greek Philosophy and Tradition, along with man's use, misuse and abuse, has rendered a lie. However the 'fires' of Hell, which refer to end time judgement, and not to eternal conscious punishment for the sinner, certainly does engender strife and the hot 'fires' of misguided fervour.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Nice to meet someone who 'gets it' as far as eternal torment is concerned. Your avatar/photo...is that Auckland? Oh and BTW, my Fathers dad's family are from Neath...just round the corner from Torfaen. Would love to go there one day for visit.

 

[Enoch111]

However the 'fires' of Hell, which refer to end time judgement, and not to eternal conscious punishment for the sinner...

End time judgment leads to Hell (the Lake of Fire) which is indeed eternal conscious punishment. The Bible is crystal clear, and the words of Christ regarding this are also crystal clear. Evidently you pick and choose which words of Christ suit you, and which don't.

MARK 9
42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell [GEHENNA], into the fire that never shall be quenched:
44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell [GEHENNA], into the fire that never shall be quenched:
46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:[GEHENNA]
48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

"Gehenna ("hell"), the place of post-resurrection torment (judgment), refers strictly to the everlasting abode of the unredeemed where they experience divine judgment in their individual resurrection-bodies. Each of the unredeemed receives one at the Great White Throne Judgment (Rev 20:11-15), i.e. a body that "matches" their capacity for torment relating to their (unique) judgment."
From HELPS Word-studies in Bible Hub

Since this thread is about THE IMPORTANCE OF TRUTH it should be an incentive for the naysayers to seek the truth about Hell, not believe the lies of Satan through false teachers who reject the doctrine of Hell.

The critical question should be "Why would the Lord Jesus Christ repeat Himself three times, and tell us three times *Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched* if this was not the truth?"

 

[brakelite]

*Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched*

Because a fire is not quenched or deliberately put out, does not mean it wont go out once it runs out of fuel. And what exactly is "their worm"?
You are right. This thread is about truth. That you began the post with such hyperbole as "crystal clear" means only in your opinion is it "crystal clear" perhaps because you aren't looking at all the questions that need asking?
For example. If the wages of sin is death, why the need to change the dictionary definition of death in order to accommodate eternal life being given as a gift to sinners and saints alike?

 

[Enoch111]

Because a fire is not quenched or deliberately put out, does not mean it wont go out once it runs out of fuel.

We can use all our humanistic and rationalistic ideas to address eternal Hell. But the fact is that absolutely no one -- OTHER THAN THE LORD JESUS CHRIST -- knows the reality of that which was originally created by Him for the devil and his angels, but will also be the eternal abode of the lost (the damned). And that is why we have the Gospel. And that is why I quoted the words of Christ. They are crystal clear (except to the naysayers).

And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (Mk 16:15,16).

 

[bbyrd009]

We can use all our humanistic and rationalistic ideas to address eternal Hell. But the fact is that absolutely no one -- OTHER THAN THE LORD JESUS CHRIST -- knows the reality of that which was originally created by Him for the devil and his angels, but will also be the eternal abode of the lost (the damned). And that is why we have the Gospel. And that is why I quoted the words of Christ. They are crystal clear (except to the naysayers).

And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (Mk 16:15,16).

yes, all it takes is a little English scribing, of Gehenna into hell, and Hades into hell, get them confused first right--can you tell me the diff, pseudo-Enoch?--and then warp the def of "eternal" just a little, misunderstand "last days" a little, and so here a little there a little, and next thing you know you have a nice little pit dug for everyone who isn't you, see.

and of course you won't engage in a reasoning of these definitions for a damn good reason, you wanna say it or should I pseudo-Enoch, bc you aren't gonna like it when I say it I guess.

ps, I could trash "preaching" and "believe" there pretty quick too I guess, imo those are maybe even the reasons for the other self-serving defs maybe, bc we sho love to preach about our beliefs huh. Proclaiming (or even maybe "emanating," or "representing," or even "being defined by" our faith like the Book really prolly means is a little tougher I guess.