Going to bed, this has been a taxing discussion. I want to walk in the Spirit so I do not fulfill the lusts of my flesh.
How to debate the Bible: for beginners
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Nancy
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The Lord imparts His holiness by imparting Himself (i.e. "Christ in you, the hope of glory"); and therefore the holiness that belongs to the one to whom the Lord imparts it, is not apart from God; but in God.
Nancy
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Helen
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All this seems like a silly 'play on words'.
"is this, or that, the same thing or different"
Who gives a rip.
As JBF has said..it's all God anyway...we are what HE says that we are..
Righteous, Holy, blessed, victorious, healed, saved , delivered ...
We know that we don't manifest it 24/7 ... but if we are going to get to the end of the race , then we must live firm in our positional of faith while of feet walk out our daily faith ...and we allow the Holy Spirit to discipline us in the word as walk in His footsteps. Our spiritual faith position and our spiritual faith experience must both be in operation in us and stay balanced.
my two cents...
"is this, or that, the same thing or different"
Who gives a rip.
As JBF has said..it's all God anyway...we are what HE says that we are..
Righteous, Holy, blessed, victorious, healed, saved , delivered ...
We know that we don't manifest it 24/7 ... but if we are going to get to the end of the race , then we must live firm in our positional of faith while of feet walk out our daily faith ...and we allow the Holy Spirit to discipline us in the word as walk in His footsteps. Our spiritual faith position and our spiritual faith experience must both be in operation in us and stay balanced.
my two cents...
Apparently, I'm the only one who thinks it matters to make a distinction between what is holy and what isn't.
@Helen, holy is really just saying that we are set apart for His use. I guess I just suck at getting my point across as it is taken the wrong way, and some will put words in my mouth.[/QUOTE]
I didn't put words in your mouth. You said you think of righteousness and holiness as basically the same thing and then posted the writing of a man who said if you are righteous, you are also holy, who you said says it well.
The righteousness that is by faith is not to be holy. It is to be righteous. God counts your trust as righteousness. That's good news. God has made a place and a way for you. Why would men then make a grab for holiness too. Uzzah made a grab for holiness and he died for it, and my gosh, the poor man didn't have bad intent. He just panicked that the ark was going over.
Even jbf did not dare to say, I am holy. Jbf said it is a possibility for him/her, and that is true. If I pressed you on it, I think you would refuse to say it too.
Even if we use your current definition, above, that the word holy, as regards a human, means to be set apart exclusively for Gods use, we would all (you, me, Helen, jbf) admit that there are selfishnesses in us that prevent it. We want and desire to be set apart exclusively for His use, but we see that we are also for our own use. We think, oh my gosh, its too much, it's too far, you mean I never get to decide what I want to do if I'm set aside only for His use? What if I want to veg out and watch tv or...go to Cancun??
The utensils and cups that were holy were to be used ONLY for use in serving God in the temple. They weren't sometimes set aside for Gods use and sometimes for punch and cookies for the 1st graders. God was quite explicit about holiness and what made something holy or no longer holy/set apart solely for His use.
I am not having an argument to be right. I think it's vitally important that we make a distinction between what is holy and what isn't, for His glory and for our good!
Holiness is a serious and sober thing. One hand thrown out in panic or one little lie that you have given all when you havent, will get you death. So why not be content with righteousness?Truthfully, it's a relief. Holiness is too far and too all in. It's just too far for us. Just leave it in God's hands, walk humbly, and don't claim to have given all when you know you haven't.
I didn't put words in your mouth. You said you think of righteousness and holiness as basically the same thing and then posted the writing of a man who said if you are righteous, you are also holy, who you said says it well.
The righteousness that is by faith is not to be holy. It is to be righteous. God counts your trust as righteousness. That's good news. God has made a place and a way for you. Why would men then make a grab for holiness too. Uzzah made a grab for holiness and he died for it, and my gosh, the poor man didn't have bad intent. He just panicked that the ark was going over.
Even jbf did not dare to say, I am holy. Jbf said it is a possibility for him/her, and that is true. If I pressed you on it, I think you would refuse to say it too.
Even if we use your current definition, above, that the word holy, as regards a human, means to be set apart exclusively for Gods use, we would all (you, me, Helen, jbf) admit that there are selfishnesses in us that prevent it. We want and desire to be set apart exclusively for His use, but we see that we are also for our own use. We think, oh my gosh, its too much, it's too far, you mean I never get to decide what I want to do if I'm set aside only for His use? What if I want to veg out and watch tv or...go to Cancun??
The utensils and cups that were holy were to be used ONLY for use in serving God in the temple. They weren't sometimes set aside for Gods use and sometimes for punch and cookies for the 1st graders. God was quite explicit about holiness and what made something holy or no longer holy/set apart solely for His use.
I am not having an argument to be right. I think it's vitally important that we make a distinction between what is holy and what isn't, for His glory and for our good!
Holiness is a serious and sober thing. One hand thrown out in panic or one little lie that you have given all when you havent, will get you death. So why not be content with righteousness?Truthfully, it's a relief. Holiness is too far and too all in. It's just too far for us. Just leave it in God's hands, walk humbly, and don't claim to have given all when you know you haven't.
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And Nancy, I'm sorry. I could have found a nicer way to say that I thought you were being a little bit lazy with your mind. You have a capable mind. And I am lazy with my mind too sometimes, and it was getting late, probably far too late in the day to expect anyone, including myself, to be sharp as a tack in a discussion between what is holy and what is common. I think it's important, but I did not find a kind way to say what I wanted to say. As you can plainly see, I am quite correct to say I am not holy and am not walking in the Spirit.
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It is actually pretty simply.
Be filled with the spirit.
Walk in the Spirit.
Be led of the Spirit and bear the fruit of the Spirit.
This is accomplished by praying in the Spirit as much as possible.
Certainly an important element....so how do you explain doing that to a new Christian?
Ya Helen, worth more than two cents.
But how do explain to a new Christian what faith is? Why should a man and his whole family have faith?
How is that done?
The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education. Albert Einstein
Who can come up with scriptures that say, Christian are called saints and saints mean holy?
Are you a Christian?
Who can come up with scriptures that say, we will sin and fall short of glory of God?
Who can come up with scriptures that say, we are perfected in Christ?
Who can come up with scriptures that say, Christ presents up before God the Father as holy and blameless.
Christ did not say, "The suite makes the man." But is He saying it....Put on that cloak of holiness and see if it changes you. Christ paid for that cloak, won't you at least try it on?
How do we explain this to a New Christian?
Who can come up with scriptures that say, Christian are called saints and saints mean holy?
Are you a Christian?
Who can come up with scriptures that say, we will sin and fall short of glory of God?
Who can come up with scriptures that say, we are perfected in Christ?
Who can come up with scriptures that say, Christ presents up before God the Father as holy and blameless.
Christ did not say, "The suite makes the man." But is He saying it....Put on that cloak of holiness and see if it changes you. Christ paid for that cloak, won't you at least try it on?
How do we explain this to a New Christian?
Is it really that simple for you? I understand being led by the Spirit, keeping open to His...impressions on your heart. And sometimes I know I've been wrong about something I was sure He was impressing on my heart but it turned out to be just...maybe my conscience mixed with my own thoughts about what would be good to do. But no great harm came to me in my mistake.
But walking in the Spirit? It's simple? I think if it seems simple to get there or do that, you might not have yet walked in the Spirit...the apostles walked in the Spirit. At least a portion of the time. And when they did, they penned Revelation, healed the sick, spoke not their own words, performed miracles. When they walked in the Spirit, they walked as Jesus walked. I've never done that.
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
Maybe the only problem is that we seek to save our lives?
Nancy
Well-Known Member
Maybe it is simple, but it is not easy. The road is narrow which means we can fall into the ditch on either side. And, I do fall into the ditch many times but then, it is the getting back up, repenting and dusting ourselves off then, just keep on keeping on that narrow road. We have highs and lows, some days we can be in the Spirit all day and the next day, we can be throwing a fit! Our emotions and feelings can be all over the place but He is faithful to be right there with us through thick and thin. Even though our moods, feelings and emotions change much of the time, His never do...He's my rock!
Yes. I think so. I was thinking as I posted that I haven't walked in the Spirit because I haven't given everything. I haven't given up all rights to myself. If I had, I would never have complaint at anything that befell me, I would just say...yes, okay Lord, your will be done. I crave comfort and no suffering so it's obvious I haven't willingly given up my own comfort. Fear prevents me.
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
Ok thank you for your honesty, I must admit the only times I’ve seen His Spirit move is the times I’ve forgone my will or personal safety. I don’t see how this can be seen in the setting of a church body, although maybe some religious sects can be very hostile.
I have seen Him come through for me in amazing ways. It was always when I insisted on trusting instead of worrying.
The last 10 months or so have been constant exercise of trust, but just recently, it has begun to change a bit, and He is going after...hmm...I find I can't say exactly what it is He is going after...but it is like this: for 10 months, my exercise has been like a part of what the 3 men in the oven said- my God will save me, see to me, take care of me. But I never was exercised in the 2nd part of what they said- "and even if He doesnt..." and this 2nd part is now what He seems to want for me.
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