CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
Yes, Not only does Paul reveal his struggle against sin, in Romans 7, but he identifies himself to be a sinner at the core of his being.
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You are another one who believes that you are saved to "sin, confess, and repeat"? ???????
See, that is the cult teaching, that is created by heretics who found Romans 7, and never left this..."that which i hate i do".
That is their entire theology and Christianity.
And you can spot them, as they come to Forums and teach that spiritual vomit.
Met one yet, @CadyandZoe
I have....
They never read the rest of Paul's TESTIMONY< as that is what he's giving.
He GOES ON TO TEACH....
"Christ Always, gives me the Victory"
"i can do ALL THINGS Through Christ'.
"if we walk in the Spirit we will not fulfill the lusts of the Flesh".
See those? Thats a few that Paul continued to teach, as REAL Christianity.
You also forgot this part. (or never read it yet).
He identifies Himself as "made free from sin"
He Identifies His old man of sin as "crucified with Christ"
He identifies Himself as "the temple of the Holy Spirit"
Paul identifies Himself as "Heir of God"
Paul identifies Himself as "Joint Heir with Jesus".
Paul never wrote a verse that said.."confess sin"
Paul never wrote a verse that says.. "YOU will do what you hate"
So, the issue is, .. .people who do not study Paul's epistles, get a commentary that pretends to teach "Paul's" theology, or their Preacher, Teacher, Pope, or similar, told them that "you'll never be able to stop sinning"... as over there in Romans 7, is the only verse that Paul ever wrote.
More then likely, your post is your misreading of this phrase by Paul...
= "Chief of sinners"
So, that is very typical of a Romans 7 misunderstanding..
See, Paul was not saying.."I chiefly sin"....or "i wish i was not sinning"..
SO, when you read the context of what he is explaining....He's explaining that the worst type of sinner is a Christian murderer.
That is a "Chief" among sinners.
A TOP, a WORST OF ALL Type"
"Type" = "Chief" of "sinners".
And that is what Paul was, before His redemption.
He was SAUL the Christ hating, Christian murderer... who was "consenting to the DEATH" of believers.
He was RIGHT THERE watching when Stephen was stoned to death, and Paul ENJOYED IT.
So, that is , as Paul describes Himself, (formally) a CHIEF< or a worst TYPE of Sinner.
Why is Paul showing us this?
He explains it..
He says that when you see that God has used such as one, as Paul... then we can begin to understand just how merciful, just how amazing, is the Love of God, that is God's GRACE.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
God actually warned us in this life YE Shall have tribulations . He warned us some will even die
for His name sake . Many lambs have faced the loss of many things
including time in prison and many even killed . GOD WAS WITH THEM THROUGH IT ALL .
They bask in total peace WITH GOD and WITH THE LAMB NOW .
WE WERE , as you said , NEVER promised the easy life in this world .
WE do have our peace IN HIM through IT ALL . but in this world , this non lamb loving world
DONT expect to be loved is all i can say . RATHER LOVE BY PREACHING CHRIST and all HE did teach
all sound pure and holy doctrine which is MEAT for the soul of a lamb .
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
Well there is that, but no. The phrase "chief of sinners" is not located in Romans 7.
Maybe, maybe not. Shouldn't we provide reasons for what we believe?
Well, you have taken us away from Romans 7, but okay. Let's look at
1 Timothy 1:15
It is a trustworthy statement—and deserving of full acceptance—that “Messiah Jesus came into the world to rescue sinners.” Foremost among them am I.
Paul wrote an epistle to Timothy in which he confesses himself to be foremost among sinners -- present tense. That's hard to ignore, isn't it?
No, Paul confesses himself to be foremost among the sinners whom Jesus Christ will rescue. Did you want to talk about Romans 7?
I didn't post that the verse is found in Romans 7.
I said that this verse you used, is a misunderstanding of Romans 7
Galatians 5:17 is also used to try to FALSELY teach Roman's 7 ... ( that which i do i hate) as "Christianity".
All that is "out of context" heresy, pretending to be "doctrine".
That is again the context of "Chief of Sinners".
Notice Paul is talking about Jesus coming into the world to rescue ... to RESCUE.....
Paul is already rescued, ... Hes "in Christ", "one with God", born again.
You can't get more "rescued" then to have all your sin forgiven by the 'one time eternal sacrifice of Jesus"...
Paul is not waiting to be rescued.. He's Already "Seated in Heavenly places, in Christ".
That's Paul's verse also.
Yes, this is right.
From my understanding I choose to do what I do, because what I hate I tend to do... it's frustrating but even when I do it, I know that Yahava, and his law is still right, and that is by his Son that I am even able to call upon him as my Father. Do I lose something for my action? Salvation? No, however there is a quenching and withering be it in the heart/mind/emotion of my inner being to some degree or another. My biggest struggle is pornography.
Because of that struggle, it has always kept me away from having a wife, and I just always tend to slip back up into it when I am super tired and my body is wanting. I never get to talk about it openly with others cause it's kept deep down inside however what can I do, but continue to go that Yahava, even after the action and tell him that he is right, and I wish I did struggle like I do...
Humility, and it keeps me humble before him, one day I really just wish the desires would go away completely cause it's been ever since introduction to Playboy, as a young adolescent from an older man who gave me the magazines, it ruined me. Even so, I do not feel complete regret, still there is thankfulness to the Father in heaven who adopted me because of beliving on his Son, and because of that he knows me inside and out and understands because his Son went through temptations and we are all tempted to sin.
Once sin is fully had it's way with the body it just leads to death, either completed death here now, or just death to parts of the soul. Only newness of life comes from abiding in Christ, however that flesh, ... it is hard to die to sometimes... if anyone is really being honest with themselves, and unto others, and to of course God himself.
You made that up.
Paul never confessed Himself to be currently a sinner, sinning. He stated that he was "chief of sinners".
Let me show you again, as you're not paying attention yet.
See, Paul was not saying.."I chiefly sin"....or "i wish i was not sinning".. SO, when you read the context of what he is explaining....He's explaining that the worst type of sinner is a Christian murderer.
That is a "Chief" among sinners.
A TOP, a WORST OF ALL Type"
"Type" = "Chief" of "sinners".
And that is what Paul was, before His redemption. He was SAUL the Christ hating, Christian murderer... who was "consenting to the DEATH" of believers. He was RIGHT THERE watching when Stephen was stoned to death, and Paul ENJOYED IT.
So, that is , as Paul describes Himself, (formally) a CHIEF< or a worst TYPE of Sinner.
Why is Paul showing us this?
He explains it..
He says that when you see that God has used such as one, as Paul... then we can begin to understand just how merciful, just how amazing, is the Love of God, that is God's GRACE.
And from and regarding... all that Grace....... Paul says this about Himself.
'""""By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care.:""
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
I think you have someone else in mind.
Are you ready to talk about Romans 7 yet? No. Okay Let's talk about 1 Corinthians 15
1 Corinthians 15:50-57
Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, “Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?” The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law; but thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
You seem to have misremembered where Paul talked about victory. Yes? Did you forget? Because the passage above speaks about conditions that will be actualized when the dead are raised. According to Paul, our victory over sin doesn't take place until the dead are raised.
I think you have misremembered a few more verses. Best we review each of them in context.
Who will save me from this body of death, thank God for Jesus Christ. (Everyone struggles with sin, and there is no magic trick to make it go away, in a day.) It takes time of allowing Yahava to renew your mind and renew your heart, and til the very day one dies, no one will ever be right in their flesh... they can only be right in their soul - (mind/will/emotion) by having faith from the heart on the Lord Yeshua, and continue to have faith and trust towards Yahava, daily.
I have anyone in mind who believes that Paul is sinning, when He's actually explaining the Grace of God that chose this "Chief of sinners" to write 13 of the NT Epistles, and all the Church Doctrine.
Paul is explaining the Amazing Grace of God that took a Christ Hating Christian Murderer, and transformed Him into a Trophy of God's Grace.
The greatest Christian who ever lived.
You're not ready, but i'll respond, anyway.
Your verse is talking about this..
"I am the Resurrection".....and that is Jesus Himself.
And this resurrection, that is occurring in your verse, is when the believers get a New Body.
See, the old one is "dead because of sin" = perishable.... "corruptible" = will rot in the ground.
The New one is Eternal, and will never perish., will never end.. Its created to contain the born again Spirit.
This RESURRECTION, regarding the dead believers and the Living, happens instantly, and the transformation...the getting of the New incorruptible Body, that is to be PUT ON....is "instant". "twinkling of an eye".
It's only put on by abiding by Christ. Your flesh doesn't have the right clothing on unless you put on Christ, which is done spiritually by abiding in him.
You don't just instantly walk in Christ, unless you know to abide in him...
No, not everyone struggles with sin.
You're wrong about that also.
Notice these verses..
"Christ Always Gives me the Victory"
"I can do all things through Christ, which Strengthens me"..
Now, notice,
"Always"
and
"All things"
Does that sound like Paul is having a hard time with lust?
So, if you have it, that's on you.
Dont try to put that on Me, or on people who have a walk of Faith that is absolutely NOT what you are describing @MatthewG .
God didnt save you, so that you can live the same carnal life you lived before you were saved..
And that's what you are describing as your personal Christianity.
That's not how it works, when you understand how to be delivered from your own LUST.
I would say that is a lie.
Everyone has broken the Law of God, but Gentiles were never given that Law. However if you go and read about it, you realize that you have broken one of the commandments in one way or another, even if it is murderous thoughts, or hatred towards a brother, sister, mother, dad, cousin, friend, enemy. Everyone needs the Lord Yeshua.
Every day people have to wake up in the morning and put their shoes on one foot at a time, just like their pants. And Jesus says what comes from the heart, and everyone has a decision every day to fall into those decisions, or - even if the thought comes - reject it and cast down that thought and put on Christ.
To say people have no struggle with sin is a lie... I trust Jesus Christ over anyone who says anything different @Behold. This is why I am so adamant of people not trusting people though they can consider what they say, and seeking out what the bible says over what they may say.
Well, at least you are not trying to teach Preterism, today.
You always have some type of cult, or similar theology you need to get up and running.
Listen, Being born again, is to always abide in Christ..
As being "IN CHRIST" Is to abide there, MatthewG.
The walk of Faith, that is to be delivered from sin, is like this....>"if you walk in the Spirit, you shall not SIN, You shall not do the works of the flesh, you will not follow the commands of your own LUST""".
So, Salvation is not broken, but your posts are showing that your carnal desires are not being dealt with....
You'd rather post about them, then take care of them..
Right?
So...
That is not the Fault of Jesus, or God, or the Holy Spirit.
Figure that out,@MatthewG
I'd say you need to listen more and post less.
@MatthewG .. said
"""""From my understanding I choose to do what I do, because what I hate I tend to do...""""""
So, you are trying to blame something else for your choices to sin?
C'mon...
Listen, when you live the life you are describing as your choice to sin, .. do you need to be on a forum trying to teach anyone?
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
I know. What is the title of your thread though?
Did I use that verse? I don't think I did. But okay. My memory is failing me in my old age.
Okay, do you want to talk about Galatians 5 or Romans 7? Shouldn't we take this one step at a time? And shouldn't we talk about Romans 7, since that is the title of your thread?
Neither Galatians nor Romans talks about the "chief of sinners."
Did Jesus rescue yet? I don't think so.
Rescue takes place at the defeat of death. Has that happened yet? I don't think so.
You think pardon is the same as rescue? Where did you get that idea?
Understand that Christ is the one who is actually seated in heavenly places. We are not actually seated in heavenly places.
Perhaps I should remind you of why this is a big deal. Why did Paul say that he is seated together with Christ in heaven-ly places? In this instance, Paul is using the adjectival form of the word "heaven" using it as an adjective to describe the places where Christ is seated. According to Jesus, the Christian understanding of heaven is that heaven is a place "where neither moth nor rust destroys, and where thieves do not break in or steal." Things and people that exist in heaven are imperishable and undying. And it is good that Christ is living in heaven because he will be able to call us out of the grave when the time comes, as Paul has said in his epistle to the Hebrews.
Hebrews 7:15-16
And this is clearer still, if another priest arises according to the likeness of Melchizedek, who has become such not on the basis of a law of physical requirement, but according to the power of an indestructible life.
(later)
Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.
According to Paul, Jesus exists in a "heavenly" place, indicating a place where things and people are imperishable and undying. Jesus makes intercession for us according to the power of an indestructible life. And because Paul is "in Christ" Paul hopes to be like him someday at the Second Coming of Christ.
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
Thank you for sharing your experience with us. I am honored to read it. Ironically, we all walk the lonely road together don't we
Take courage brother. God hears your prayers and he will answer them.Similar threads
