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amigo de christo

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The person in whom the word does not remain does not have the Father or the Son. They are not saved:

23Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father, but whoever confesses the Son has the Father as well.24As for you, let what you have heard from the beginning remain in you. If it does, you will also remain in the Son and in the Father." 1 John 2:23-24
EVEN JOHN talks about HOW one will continue in CHRIST . WE MUST CONTINUE , IF what we have learned from the beginning , THE GOSPEL TRUTH
shall remain in you then YE shall abide , remain in HIM . ITS ALL TIED INTO BELIEF . Yet they even attack that word now .
Acting as though if i say YE must BELIEVE or CONTINUE , that this is somehow not giving GOD the glory nor trusting in JESUS .
WHEN IN TRUTH IT IS . JESUS warned about it FIRST then so do the apostels . EVEN PETER talks about what will happen
when the hog that was WASHED CLEAN , and there is only ONE WAY TO BE WASHSED CLEAN , yet returns to its wallowing in the mire

THEY ALL warned the church , YE MUST CONTINUE . Yet today even that is seen as legalism . EVERYTHING IS LEGALISM TO
the hyper grace movement . I have seen some even say , IF ONE once believed and then later dont , THEY STILL SAVED .
NOWHERE can that be found in scripture . NOT ONLY THAT , BUT I CAN SHOW US in plenty of places
as well as the parables of CHRIST that proves THIS IS NOT THE CASE . YET some even say YE CAN return to UNBELIEF and STILL YE ARE SAVED .
At least the OLD osas would have said they were never HIS . NOT TODAY , TODAY ITS GOTTEN EVEN WORSE than ever .
 

Ferris Bueller

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God accepts Faith, once....one time, to then Birth your Spirit, into His.
You dont "keep believing" for this.....You instead understand that you ARE Born again.
Yes, a person is born again the moment they accept God's forgiveness by faith. But it plainly says the word of God has to remain in you for you to remain in the Father and the Son and the promise of eternal life:

"24As for you, let what you have heard from the beginning remain in you. If it does, you will also remain in the Son and in the Father. 25And this is the promise that He Himself made to us: eternal life.26I have written these things to you about those who are trying to deceive you." 1 John 2:24-26

You are the deceiver John is warning us about.

The passage above is crystal clear. Anybody who doesn't have the word of God remaining in them is lost. It's so clear that there's no debate possible about that. The question is, can a real believer stop believing and no longer have the word of God in them? Your teaching is just stupid. You say if the word doesn't remain in a believer they remain in the Father and the Son and the promise of eternal life. That is in complete contradiction to what John says.
 

Behold

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Yes, a person is born again the moment they accept God's forgiveness by faith. But it plainly says the word of God has to remain in you for you to remain in the Father

Those who are trying to deceive you, are those who teach that Eternal life is temporary.
Those who are trying to deceive you are those who are teaching works, vs Grace.

So, here is more on your verse.

Your verse is describing the person who is born again.
The engrafted seed of the word has taken root in them, and they have this..>"the washing of water by the word".
That is Jesus saying that you will Thirst no more when you have this water.

Notice your verse says.."if it remains in you"......It does not say..>"if you keep believing".
See that?
That is a major difference, as the "engrafted seed of the word" remains, = is for those who have truly believed and are not as that verse implies, those who it didn't remain in, as they really didnt believe.

Christ is the Word, who lives in you, when you are born again, and so that is how it "Remains"
So, this verse is talking about the real born again, vs, those who hear, but it does not take root.

If it did, then "you REMAIN in the Son and in the Father" because "Christ in you", remains in you.
 

Behold

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EVEN JOHN talks about HOW one will continue in CHRIST . WE MUST CONTINUE ,.

You can't save yourself, so, trying to continue has no relationship to what God does for you.
It is God who continues your salvation.
Philippians 1:6

Remember that Salvation is a gift.
Works are not required., As Jesus has already done all the work necessary for you on the Cross.
 

amigo de christo

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You can't save yourself, so, trying to continue has no relationship to what God does for you.
It is God who continues your salvation.
Philippians 1:6

Remember that Salvation is a gift.
Works are not required., As Jesus has already done all the work necessary for you on the Cross.
Thats old news . WE all already KNOW we cant save ourselves . But what is say to YOU i say to all ,
BETTER CONTINUE IN HIM unto the end . If the early church said it to the church , YOU CAN BET I WILL TOO .
But that is legalism to this confused generation .
SO i leave you with peters words , WHICH HE WROTE TO THE CHURCH .
He told them YE KNOW THE TRUTH . SEEING YOU DO KNOW THE TRUTH
TAKE HEED lest YE TOO BE LED AWAY WITH THE ERROR OF THE WICKED . GUESS that means ol peter was a legalist
who didnt trust in CHrist ..EHHHH
NO . THE WARNING and REMINDERS ARE ALL GOOD FOR OUR SOUL . BUT YOU all take off to heed such warnings
and instead see such reminders as A LACK OF FAITH . WHEN IN TRUTH IT WORKS TO THE GOOD OF THE CHURCH TO HEAR
such reminders .
 

Behold

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Thats old news . WE all already KNOW we cant save ourselves . But what is say to YOU i say to all ,
BETTER CONTINUE IN HIM unto the end . .


How can you not "continue in Him" when you are born again, and have become "one with God".
You dont have to try to continue that.
Its forever.
 

Behold

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You say if the word doesn't remain in a believer they remain in the Father and the Son and the promise of eternal life. That is in complete contradiction to what John says.

You are confused again.
I have not said that.

I said that Jesus is the WORD, who is IN YOU, if you are born again.
And because He is in the born again, as Jesus says..>" you shall never perish".

This will come as a shock to a self saving legalist like you to find out that God didnt create a Salvation that you have to keep, nor one that you can ruin.
How do you know?
Because Salvation is JESUS Himself.......and if you have Christ in you, you have Salvation for as long as He Lives.
 

AceWestfall08

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I have seen on numerous occasions of people telling me they have truly seeked and believed in God....but then told me later they have serious doubts or have lost belief in him. This occurrence happens to alot of people.....alot of morally good people. Telling them to simply "believe" and let god do the work....sometimes just doesn't cut it for them. Especially when they tried. One person in particular that I work with has lost belief because her spouse was unfaithful when they had kids together. People need to feel more supported than reading words in troubling times. Sometimes it feels as if God is impersonal and distant and that is what causes doubts.

Once saved, always saved?

What is "being saved" anymore? Its such a loose term nowadays. That word doesn't carry much weight to the common person, so it is used often.

Was I saved as a child when I believed blindly not understanding the value of it?

Or was I saved after my vision when I tied my vision and my what my Parents taught me together...assuming that the "floating head that I talked to" was god/jesus?

Am I still saved now that I have serious doubts about Jesus and the "innocence of the NT?" but yet I cannot speak the words on how much God means it me?

These are serious questions to the genuine seeker.....
 
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Ferris Bueller

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Those who are trying to deceive you, are those who teach that Eternal life is temporary.
Eternal life is not temporary. It lasts forever.

Those who are trying to deceive you are those who are teaching works, vs Grace.
Believing is not among the works that can not justify. Believing is the very thing you are supposed to do to be justified. But for some reason believing got put over on the side of works in this New OSAS teaching.
 

Behold

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Believing is the very thing you are supposed to do to be justified..

And If you give God your faith......If you call on the name of Jesus, believing, then God gives you SALVATION.
Do you have it yet?
= This is to become born again.
And once this happens, you can't change it, as you didnt cause it.

Faith does not save you.
God saves you.......through your faith, ONCE.......= born again is proof it happened., and eternal life is INSTALLED, imputed, forever.

You can't stop being born again.
A BIRTH can't be changed.
Ask your mother to explain to you why you can't stop being born.
See that?
Its the same with being BORN BORN BORN again, by GOD's HOLY Spirit.
You can't undo a birth by faith issues, Ferris Bueller.
 

Ferris Bueller

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Notice your verse says.."if it remains in you"......It does not say..>"if you keep believing".
See that?
Here, let me help you see in the Bible that the word remaining in you means to continue to believe the gospel word by which you were saved:

1Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, and in which you stand firm.
2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
14 ...if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is worthless, and so is your faith.
17 ...if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins.
1 Corinthians 15:1-17

The Corinthians heard and received Paul's gospel of a risen savior, and they stand firm in it. They believed Paul's gospel that he preached to them.
They are saved. But they are being swayed by another gospel in which Christ is not risen from the dead. If they don't hold firmly to the word he preached (that is, they don't believe it anymore) their faith will have been in vain. They are saved. But they are only saved if they hold firmly to that word. If they stop believing that, not holding firmly to the word about a risen savior, their faith will have been in vain. They are only saved if the word by which they were saved remains in them in faith, believing.

Can a real believer really stop believing? We are certainly free to believe what we want about that, but the more important matter is that you are a real believer to begin with and that you remain one.
 
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AceWestfall08

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“Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity.”

Here, let me help you see in the Bible that the word remaining in you means to continue to believe the gospel word by which you were saved:

1Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, and in which you stand firm.
2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
14 ...if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is worthless, and so is your faith.
17 ...if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins.
1 Corinthians 15:1-17

The Corinthians heard and received Paul's gospel of a risen savior, and they stand firm in it. They believed Paul's gospel that he preached to them.
They are saved. But they are being swayed by another gospel in which Christ is not risen from the dead. If they don't hold firmly to the word he preached (that is, they don't believe it anymore) their faith will have been in be in vain. They are saved. But they are only saved if they hold firmly to that word. If they stop believing that, not holding firmly to the word about a risen savior, their faith will have been in vain. They are only saved if the word by which they were saved remains in them in faith, believing.

Can a real believer really stop believing? We are certainly free to believe what we want about that, but the more important matter is that you are a real believer to begin with and that you remain one.
 

Ferris Bueller

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And If you give God your faith......If you call on the name of Jesus, believing, then God gives you SALVATION.
Do you have it yet?
= This is to become born again.
And once this happens, you can't change it, as you didnt cause it.

Faith does not save you.
God saves you.......through your faith, ONCE.......= born again is proof it happened., and eternal life is INSTALLED, imputed, forever.

You can't stop being born again.
A BIRTH can't be changed.
Ask your mother to explain to you why you can't stop being born.
See that?
Its the same with being BORN BORN BORN again, by GOD's HOLY Spirit.
You can't undo a birth by faith issues, Ferris Bueller.
I don't care what you or anyone else thinks about whether or not you can stop believing. I care that everyone understands that the Bible says to believe and that you are saved if the word remains in you and you do not abandon it for another gospel or abandon it altogether.
 

AceWestfall08

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FerrisBueller?

So are you saying that people who have never heard the Gospel.....living or dead.....past...present....future....have no chance at being saved because there is no "WORD" for them to hold onto?

What happens to THOSE people.
 

Aunty Jane

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So are you saying that people who have never heard the Gospel.....living or dead.....past...present....future....have no chance at being saved because there is no "WORD" for them to hold onto?

What happens to THOSE people.
You ask really good and relevant questions...they deserve answers.

I think we need to go back to the Bible to discover what "hell" actually is. There are several words translated "hell" in some Bibles that are not describing a place of eternal torment at all....but a place of eternal death. That is all God ever placed before his people. (Israel)
He told them.....“I call heaven and earth to witness against you that today I have set before you life or death, blessing or curse. Oh, that you would choose life; that you and your children might live! 20 Choose to love the Lord your God and to obey him and to cling to him, for he is your life and the length of your days. You will then be able to live safely in the land the Lord promised your ancestors, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.” (Deuteronomy 30:19-20 TLB)

So what is the Hebrew equivalent of the Greek "hades"? The Septuagint (Hebrew to Greek translation used in the first century as Greek was the common language) says that "sheol" is what the Jews believed to be associated with death.

Solomon wrote..."For the living at least know that they will die! But the dead know nothing ; they don’t even have their memories. . . . Whatever you do, do well, for in death, [sheol] where you are going, there is no working or planning, or knowing, or understanding." (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10 TLB) The word for "death" there is "sheol" which simply means the common grave.
There is no immortal soul. The Bible does not teach this.

If the dead are not conscious, not capable of planning or knowing or understanding, then there is no conscious part of man that survives death.
Solomon went on to lament that we humans have no advantage over animals in death because we all end up in the same place.
"For men and animals both breathe the same air, and both die. So mankind has no real advantage over the beasts; what an absurdity! 20 All go to one place—the dust from which they came and to which they must return." (Ecclesiastes 3:19-20) TLB)

"Hades" is therefore not what Christendom teaches at all......it is a place of rest, not a place of torture. Going back to the garden of Eden, we can see that there was no mention of "heaven or hell"....only "life or death".

The other word translated "hell" in the NT is "gehenna".....this is not a place of literal torture either. It was a reference to the Valley of Hinnom where the apostate Jews were sacrificing their children to the false god Molech. God said that he was disgusted with that practice and that burning children alive would not have even entered his mind. (Jeremiah 7:31) If God punished his people for doing that, then why would he do the same thing himself?
"Gehenna" was turned into a rubbish dump outside of the walls of Jerusalem, so if something was cast into "gehenna" they were already dead. The bodies of dead animals and even executed criminals were thrown into the fires of gehenna because they were considered trash. It was a symbol of eternal death as opposed to eternal life. There would be no memorial of the fact that they ever existed...no grave with their name and lineage marked on them, which was so important to the Jews....giving God a place to raise that person back to life.

So what happens to the dead? Jesus answers....
"Don’t be so surprised! Indeed the time is coming when all the dead in their graves shall hear the voice of God’s Son, 29 and shall rise again—those who have done good, to eternal life; and those who have continued in evil, to judgment." (John 5:28-29 TLB)

Paul wrote..."and I believe, just as these men do, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and ungodly." (Acts 24:15)
So all are to be resurrected, no matter if they are righteous or ungodly.

A resurrection is a return to life....not a continuation of it. Most of the human dead have never heard of the true God Jehovah or his son, so why would God punish people for their ignorance? All the dead are called from the same place....."sheol/hades" which is just the grave, where they sleep peacefully unaware of the passing of time, and most dying without any knowledge of a possible resurrection.

The period of 'judgment' that Jesus spoke about will be a time of education, giving all ignorant ones the chance to hear the truth about the true God and to bring their lives into harmony with his will. The very same choices that we have. Being born at the wrong time and in the wrong place was not their fault. God will give them an opportunity.

So, death doesn't mean going to 'heaven or hell'....because God never gave humans that option in the first place.
Resurrection for the majority of humans means being raised, just like Lazarus was when Jesus resurrected him from his grave.
Where did Jesus say that Lazarus was?
"Then he said, “Our friend Lazarus has gone to sleep, but now I will go and waken him!”
The disciples, thinking Jesus meant Lazarus was having a good night’s rest, said, “That means he is getting better!” But Jesus meant Lazarus had died.
Then he told them plainly, “Lazarus is dead."
(John 11:11-14 TLB)

Jesus' promise to resurrect the dead is simply bringing them back to this life by the power of God's holy spirit.....on a cleansed and restored earth, into the paradise conditions that we lost. Peter spoke about that in the future. (2 Peter 3:13) The "new earth" will be ruled by the "new heavens" which will be Christ and his elect ruling over their earthly subjects. (Revelation 20:6) These will form the government (kingdom) of God which will take a thousand years to bring humans back into a reconciliation with God. The sin that formed a barrier between us and our Creator will be removed, and we can get on with the life that God promised us at the beginning. (Isaiah 55:11; Revelation 21:2-4)

That is what makes sense to me......all this talk of "hell" is rubbish.
 
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Ferris Bueller

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FerrisBueller?

So are you saying that people who have never heard the Gospel.....living or dead.....past...present....future....have no chance at being saved because there is no "WORD" for them to hold onto?
No, they are not without chance at being saved. God judges them according to another source of the 'word'.

What happens to THOSE people.
Their 'word' is the knowledge of God and righteousness they have received through nature and conscience. Romans 2:14-16

"14Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15So they show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts either accusing or defending them 16on the day when God will judge men’s secrets through Christ Jesus,b as proclaimed by my gospel."
 

Behold

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Can a real believer really stop believing? We are certainly free to believe what we want about that, but the more important matter is that you are a real believer to begin with and that you remain one.

You remain one if you are born again.
That's the only reason.
= Faith is not the Savior.
=God is the Savior.
 

Behold

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care that everyone understands

According to all your posts....= The only thing you actually care about is showing up on a Forum like this one to try to deceive real believers into the devil's theology = Jesus can't keep you saved, so you have to do it.
Your version of the "how do i keep myself saved, because i dont trust Christ to keep me saved"....IS...>"if i hold unto my Savior FAITH, then i keep myself from Going to hell".
 

Ferris Bueller

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According to all your posts....= The only thing you actually care about is showing up on a Forum like this one to try to deceive real believers into the devil's theology = Jesus can't keep you saved, so you have to do it.
Your version of the "how do i keep myself saved, because i dont trust Christ to keep me saved"....IS...>"if i hold unto my Savior FAITH, then i keep myself from Going to hell".
We hold on to the word through which we are saved. The devil's work is to tell people they do not have to keep believing.
 
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