How to live in Victory

[Behold]

You just ignore the word of God and shamelessly proceed with your opinion. Unbelievable...



Or, more accurately, “let me explain the Bible away”.

I realize you can't actually respond to what ive said, so, all you can do is just deny it, and pretend.
But that does not change it.

Grow more, live a little longer, and deal with people in real life, who want to teach and preach "water baptism saves", and "mary is Queen of Heaven", and "if you dont speak in tongues you are not saved and dont have the Spirit"..... etc, etc, etc.............>.
Just keep living and try to actually get off of "fun" forums and deal with real Christianity , face to face, and you'll then know what i know regarding the amount of HERETICS who are all over churches and all over forums, preaching everything BUT The Truth, or The Gospel.
See, all these are enemies of the Cross, and you have not yet learned this...

Live and learn.
Read me.

 

[Behold]

Yeah, what you need to do is start READING the Bible

God told you to "study" the bible.
"study to show yourself approve unto God".
Not just read it, as you are falsely teaching.
So, there is your first error, and not your last.

Listen....
Grow more, live a little longer, and deal with people in real life, who want to teach and preach "water baptism saves", and "mary is Queen of Heaven", and "if you dont speak in tongues you are not saved and dont have the Spirit"..... etc, etc, etc.............>.
Just keep living and try to actually get off of "fun" forums and deal with real Christianity , face to face, and you'll then know what i know regarding the amount of HERETICS who are all over churches and all over forums, preaching everything BUT The Truth, or The Gospel.
See, all these are enemies of the Cross, and you have not yet learned this...

Live and learn.
Read me.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

See, all these are enemies of the Cross, and you have not yet learned this...

Such audacity.

Your wisdom is described here:

James 3:14-15
[14] ...lie not against the truth. [15] This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.

People who believe your doctrine are almost all the same. Proud. Twisting scripture in the name of “study”. Talking down to those you view as inferior and simple. The end result of your Bible training leaves you with no Bible.

2 Corinthians 10:12
For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

If you are working out YOUR Salvation, then you have left God's Grace.

See......YOUR Salvation, is God's Gift to you....and you dont do that for yourself as you have confused it.

See, to work out your Salvation, means you HAVE IT.
You HAVE Salvation, and now you learn how to exist within this Spiritual Situation.

you misunderstood which is easy through text or post and also my struggle to say what I mean clearly. Did I say you do that for yourself “See......YOUR Salvation, is God's Gift to you....and you dont do that for yourself as you have confused it.”

but instead was pointing out the passage of Godly sorrow works repentance unto salvation not to be repented of. What earnestness! In the passage stands out because 2 Corinthians 5:5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

2 Corinthians 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

Galatians 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

So I’m not sure what your arguments with the passage is, or if there is any argument? 2 Corinthians 7:11 For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you,(produced in you) yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves (the manifestation of His Spirit, where His Spirit is there is Life) to be clear in this matter.

2 Corinthians 10:5-6 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; [6] And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

Romans 10:3-4 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. [4] For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

To me regarding your topic “godly sorrow works repentance unto salvation not to be repented of” is important because worldly sorrow works death. It is important to me because while grace is a free gift ...does that mean there doesn’t have to be godly sorrow and I can continue to do whatever I want to do and behave however I want to behave and have no Turning away from those things claiming instead ‘grace’ to walk however I choose to walk, pursue whatever I want and call it a gift a ‘grace’. Is this why He sent the earnest of His Spirit into hearts crying Abba Father for the heart to continue to kill, steal, and destroy and again call it ‘grace’?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

This is utter madness!

THE SCRIPTURES TELL YOU TO DO THIS!!!

Are you that steeped in your corrupted doctrine that you ignore scriptures so brazenly?!

This is the state of Christianity these days...

God help us!!

2 Corinthians 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

which sorrow leads to grace and Life?

 

[justbyfaith]

No surprise .....you got it exactly backwards....YOU are the Spiritual descendant Of Hagar and Ishmael in the Anaolgy ....

Why is it, then, that you are persecuting me while I am not persecuting you?

Again, the scripture says,

Gal 4:28, Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
Gal 4:29, But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

 

[justbyfaith]

If you believe that Jesus keeps you saved, then prove it by never lying again on a Christian Forum, saying that you can lose your salvation.

It is no lie that a man can lose his salvation; if his faith is merely lukewarm, shallow, or nominal (Luke 8:12-13).

If his faith is a heart faith that is unto righteousness (Romans 10:10) and enduring to the end (Matthew 10:22, Hebrews 3:6, Hebrews 3:14), then he cannot lose his salvation: he is sealed by the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13-14, Ephesians 4:30, 2 Corinthians 1:22, 2 Corinthians 5:5) and has everlasting life (John 6:47)...which is life that can never come to an end....otherwise it would have been defined as temporal.

Therefore, my exhortation is the following.

Phl 2:12, Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

which means,

2Pe 1:10, Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

All TRUE preaching and all evangelism, preaches The Cross.
The Cross is not the Law.

TRUE preaching and evangelism preaches the law.

The law is a schoolmaster to lead men to Christ (Galatians 3:24).

It gives people the knowledge of sin so that they can understand that they need a Saviour (Romans 3:20).

While it does not have the power to impart life (Galatians 3:21), it does have the power to save (Psalms 19:7 (kjv)); in that it shows man that he is in need of a Saviour and it leads him to the Saviour.

Psa 19:7, The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

 

[justbyfaith]

The Sad Truth is, if you had the Slightest “ IDEA” of what Grace really was.....your Perverted “Lucky Repentance” would vanish on its own.... it never even would have been thought Of.....The Two can NOT co- exist.

grace and repentance cannot co-exist?

You are way out in left field, my friend.

You are suggesting that the grace of God will bring about a life that is devoid of holy living...

..but when it comes to Salvation , whether it be the the #1 Accuser on Judgment Day, or your “Loving” , Forum- Dwelling “Accuser Of the Brethren” ...

At least you recognize that that is what you are...an accuser of the brethren...and therefore you have taken on the nature and employment of the enemy.

... I suggest that you do what I did....Let the Law do it’s intended task in your life, which is to lead you to Jesus, and then pass it in to somebody that is Unsaved and still needs it...

The problem is, you don't give the law to those who need it...and you accuse those who do of preaching a FALSE and PERVERTED gospel.

...I am talking hypothetically ....
I am trying to point out a paradox that I am sure will go right over your head.... the fact that I can sin and never be damned for it ,instead of stirring up any desires to sin up a Storm , instead actually spurs a relief,a thankfulness and a Love so grand—— you don’t want to sin anymore....I do what I want.....God has changed those “wants” to line- up with His.....one has to live it to understand it.....you don’t and you won’t ...

Has it not been my very teaching that as believers, we are not under the law (Romans 6:14), are dead to the law (Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19), and are delivered from the law (Romans 7:6)?

Perhaps you should read one of my old threads about the Wet Paint Principle, and see what I truly believe on this subject, before you go pointing the finger...

Wet Paint Principle (Freedom)

 

[Behold]

.does that mean there doesn’t have to be godly sorrow and I can continue to do whatever I want to do and behave however I want to behave and have no Turning away from those things claiming instead ‘grace’ to walk however I choose to walk, pursue whatever I want and call it a gift a ‘grace’. Is this why He sent the earnest of His Spirit into hearts crying Abba Father for the heart to continue to kill, steal, and destroy and again call it ‘grace’?

God's Grace has no relationship to your behavior.
God's Grace isn't based on how you behave.

God's Grace is based on What Jesus DID for you, so that God will accept you.
This is apart from you.
Salvation is not what you deserve or what you earn, or what you keep.
Salvation is what God did for you that is a GIFT to you, that you receive.
Its all of God.
There is no, "ok, now that its happened what is my part".
There is no your part.
Salvation is not The Cross + you.
Its not THe Gift + your trying to be good later.

There is only what God provided as "the gift of salvation", that is RECEIVED and Imputed.

 

[Behold]

It is no lie that a man can lose his salvation;

Jesus is Salvation, and He is in all the born again.
This can't be changed.
Once you are born again, you are always born again.

You need to consider that something is obsessing you to try to talk real born again people out of their salvation.
You are on a forum denying that Jesus keeps you saved, and are trying to put the burden of salvation on people's behavior.
That's not of God.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

God's Grace has no relationship to your behavior.

again, I don’t get the disagreement if there is one. Would hope Grace has a relationship with your heart and out of that becomes your behavior.

I haven’t yet asked you what this passage means to you? 2 Corinthians 7:9-11 Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing. [10] For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death. [11] For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.


The topic is working out your own salvation with fear and trembling. Unless I’ve misunderstood. Others here have said grace and repentance can not coexist. I’m asking what this passage means to you that godly sorrow works repentance unto salvation not to be repented of.

in the the saying grace is without repentance. That I don’t get when the above seems to be saying godly sorrow works (produces) (brings forth) repentance unto salvation not to be repented of. To me that says not to be denied is (produces),(what godly sorrow wrought in you),(salvation brought forth)(not to be repented of)...John 3:20-21 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. [21] But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.


no godly sorrow working repentance unto salvation not to be repented of?? James 4:8-10 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. [9] Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. [10] Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The topic “how to live in victory”.
For me the struggle is in saying repentance and grace can not coexist. Is repentance not to have a change of heart or a change of mind? How can there be grace without a change of heart or without a change of mind?
2 Timothy 3:1-10 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. [2] For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, [3] Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, [4] Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; [5] Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. [6] For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, [7] Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. [8] Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. [9] But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was. [10] But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,

Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof:
grace without a changing of the mind?

 

[justbyfaith]

God's Grace has no relationship to your behavior.
God's Grace isn't based on how you behave.

God's Grace is based on What Jesus DID for you, so that God will accept you.
This is apart from you.
Salvation is not what you deserve or what you earn, or what you keep.
Salvation is what God did for you that is a GIFT to you, that you receive.
Its all of God.
There is no, "ok, now that its happened what is my part".
There is no your part.
Salvation is not The Cross + you.
Its not THe Gift + your trying to be good later.

There is only what God provided as "the gift of salvation", that is RECEIVED and Imputed.

I'm in agreement with every word...

But I would add that if anyone is truly born again, he is made into a new creature in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17 (kjv))...so that he "cannot sin" (1 John 3:9).

Jesus is Salvation, and He is in all the born again.
This can't be changed.
Once you are born again, you are always born again.

You need to consider that something is obsessing you to try to talk real born again people out of their salvation.
You are on a forum denying that Jesus keeps you saved, and are trying to put the burden of salvation on people's behavior.
That's not of God.

Of course salvation is not based on our behaviour...

However our behaviour will be different if we have a genuine salvation.

The law points out your sin and shows you that you are a sinner in need of a Saviour.

It shows you that your behaviour is not up to par for the behaviour of one who has been born of God (see 1 John 3:9).

You will never be able to "save yourself" by changing your behaviour so that it fits the behaviour of one who is born again.

You can only be saved through faith...and if you are saved by faith, your behaviour will change by the grace of God.

So that, now that you are born again (if you are born again), the love of the Lord is shed abroad in your heart (Romans 5:5) so that you "cannot sin" (1 John 3:9)...because love is the bond of perfectness (Colossians 3:14).

 

[Behold]

The topic is working out your own salvation with fear and trembling. Unless I’ve misunderstood. Others here have said grace and repentance can not coexist. I’m asking what this passage means to you that godly sorrow works repentance unto salvation not to be repented of.

in the the saying grace is without repentance..

Repenting of what?

Lets talk about that briefly.

There is one repentance that God requires, to then give you the new Birth, = born again.
That repentance it to turn from UNBELIEF, to BELIEF, as that is what is stopping Salvation.

See, its not to try to repent from SIN, as that is meaningless, as an unbeliever can stop sinning, and yet, are they SAVED?
Are they born again because the REPENTED of SIN?
A.) NO.

you are saved not because you made up you mind to not sin anymore .....but it because you REPENTED of CHRIST REJECTION (unbelief), and changed your mind TO BELIEF.
This is FAITH.
Its the turning or repenting from unbelief that is the Godly repentance that God accepts... to then SAVE YOU.

"faith is counted as Righteousness".
You give God faith in Christ and God gives you SALVATION.


Next.....

"working out your salvation".

This is simply ......... you have it, you're born again, so that is the proof you have it or not.......so...now learn how to function within it.
Thats how you "work it out".
You learn how to exist within it.

Here is a simple analogy.
You are hired for a job.
You have it, but you have to go and learn how to DO IT.

Salvation is a GIFT. You have it when you believe in Jesus and God accepts your faith to give you "the gift of salvation"< so, now go and learn how to live within this gift.
Its a process of learning how to do it, how to function within what is given to you, = Salvation.

 

[Behold]

The topic “how to live in victory”.
For me the struggle is in saying repentance and grace can not coexist.

There is one repentance that God accepts.

To REPENT of Unbelief, as this is the STATE of all unbelievers. They are this. John 3:36
They have not REPENTED of their unbelief.
When they do, God accepts this because to repent from unbelief is to BELIEVE IN JESUS.
And that is why God saves you.

"as many as believed in Jesus, .. God gives to them the POWER to become the Sons of God".

 

[justbyfaith]

Someone who tries to "turn over a new leaf" without faith in Christ being in the picture, will fail miserably at "trying to turn over a new leaf".

But repentance (away from sin) is required for salvation (Ezekiel 33:11-20, Luke 13:1-5, 2 Corinthians 7:10).

So, the only way that someone can truly repent and be saved is if they avail themselves of the remedy for sin that is in the Cross (see Matthew 1:21, Titus 2:14; Hebrews 13:12, Hebrews 10:29, 1 John 1:7).

 

[justbyfaith]

This:

Phl 2:12, Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

means this:

2Pe 1:10, Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Repenting of what?

repenting of all the damage done by serving self? Looking back at what alienation from God produced? Still...the past causes this shameful gut-reminder of what alienation from Him looks like, while at the same time that awe you spoke of in OP of grace. A new creature. But that shameful gut reminder (Imo) doesn’t go away but reminds everyday of the need of grace and His saying “follow Me” and “be you transformed by the renewing of the mind” and you won’t be ashamed.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

There is one repentance that God accepts.

To REPENT of Unbelief, as this is the STATE of all unbelievers. They are this. John 3:36
They have not REPENTED of their unbelief.
When they do, God accepts this because to repent from unbelief is to BELIEVE IN JESUS.
And that is why God saves you.

"as many as believed in Jesus, .. God gives to them the POWER to become the Sons of God".

does there have to be a changed mind?
Is repentance unto salvation a changed mind?
If you could simply answer those two questions it would help?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

@Behold have to go get ready for the day. I’m not really trying to be confusing and I’m not saying I disagree with you because I’m not really sure what you are saying or the intent. To be honest, I’m not only going by what I think his word says but also by what I’ve experienced. (Whether it be right or wrong). Countless times over my life saying “I believe!” And saying a prayer accepting Jesus into my heart. Repentance of my sins. But nothing ever changed. Decades. Going around claiming to have salvation and never once knowing I was blind. Years of claiming grace when there was no relationship whatsoever with God. It was all empty words. Repeating and following after a parade of “I believe!” with being of the same mind still. A couple years ago...close to five years...something happened that pierced deep and to the quick. What I think you are saying and I could be wrong, is there doesn’t need to be mourning or sorrow which He describes as such a deep ‘in the quick’ sorrow compared to labour pangs of a deliverance out from wrath?