"I am a sinner saved by grace" vs. "I am made righteous through the blood of Christ."

[justbyfaith]

This thread will be for a debate between those who hold these opinions.

I open up the first post for those who hold the opinion of "I am a sinner saved by grace."

Make your cases with respect.

 

[Windmillcharge]

It would help if you gave a synopses of both alleged positions.

As far as I am concerned the difference is merely that of a different emphasis on words.

 

[Addy]

Aren't you just a busy beaver...

They are the same thing... A sinner saved by grace is one who has been made righteous by the Precious Blood of Christ.

That's my case and I will rest in the simplicity and beauty of it... no matter who tries to pluck me from this Promise.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

I am Saved because I have a Super Memory and I will be able to Repent Of All Of my Sins Before i die......as we all know, “ Lucky Repentance” is the recipe for Salvation....I learned that Recipe in these Forums— not the Bible...

 

[Wynona]

I'm not defined as a sinner any longer thanks to Christ. I am a saint.

I was a sinner at one point. Romans 3:23.

If I sin now, I confess and turn from it. But I no longer live a lifestyle of sin because Im made righteous by the blood of Jesus.

 

[justbyfaith]

They are the same thing... A sinner saved by grace is one who has been made righteous by the Precious Blood of Christ.

So, are you trying to say that righteousness is not a practical thing?

I believe that righteousness is practical in nature.

1Jo 3:7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

1Jo 3:17, But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
1Jo 3:18, My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

Rom 5:19, For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Mat 5:6, Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

Someone who has been made righteous by the blood of Christ is not a sinner; in the sense of one who commits sin.

1Jo 3:9, Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1Jo 3:6, Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

1Jo 2:17, And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

One who has been made righteous by the blood of Christ is a sinner in that they have indwelling sin.

1Jo 1:8, If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Rom 7:18, For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

1Ti 1:15, This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

Indwelling sin can be rendered dead so that it no longer has any say over our behaviour.

Rom 6:6, Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Gal 5:24, And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Rom 7:8, But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
.
.
Rom 6:14, For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

 

[justbyfaith]

I am Saved because I have a Super Memory and I will be able to Repent Of All Of my Sins Before i die......as we all know, “ Lucky Repentance” is the recipe for Salvation....I learned that Recipe in these Forums— not the Bible...

It is most certainly found in the Bible.

For, if someone is a "worker / doer of iniquity" they will be cast into the furnace of everlasting fire (Matthew 13:41-42; Matthew 7:23, Matthew 25:41).

And since we are born dead in trespasses and sins (Ephesians 2:1) we are "workers / doers of iniquity" by default.

In order to avoid the aforementioned fate, we must cease to be a "doer / worker of iniquity".

That means REPENTING OF SIN.

It does not necessarily mean that you have to list all of your sins and repent of them individually...the Holy Spirit will pinpoint those sins in His timing if you walk in the light as He is in the light.

It means a change of direction...whereas before you were walking in the direction of sin, death, hell, and satan...now, if you are born again, you are walking in the direction of righteousness, life, heaven, and God.

This is the meaning of John's hyperbolic statement in 1 John 3:9...

Not necessarily that you have ceased completely from all committing of sins in your life...but that you are walking in a new direction (which may result in the above being true in your life...your ceasing from committing all sins); so that the following is true of you.

Pro 4:18, But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.

 

[justbyfaith]

Aren't you just a busy beaver...

The OP did not come about over the fact that I am a "busy beaver"...

It came about because I was listening to the voice of the Holy Spirit as I was resting and seeking what He wanted me to say.

I'm not defined as a sinner any longer thanks to Christ. I am a saint.

I was a sinner at one point. Romans 3:23.

If I sin now, I confess and turn from it. But I no longer live a lifestyle of sin because Im made righteous by the blood of Jesus.

This is correct.

2Co 5:21, For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

 

[Amazed@grace]

Aren't you just a busy beaver...

They are the same thing... A sinner saved by grace is one who has been made righteous by the Precious Blood of Christ.

That's my case and I will rest in the simplicity and beauty of it... no matter who tries to pluck me from this Promise.

Well, that was a quick thread. Well said.

 

[justbyfaith]

Well, that was a quick thread. Well said.

see post #6 ("I am a sinner saved by grace" vs. "I am made righteous through the blood of Christ.").

 

[Amazed@grace]

So, are you trying to say that righteousness is not a practical thing?

I believe that righteousness is practical in nature.

1Jo 3:7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

1Jo 3:17, But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
1Jo 3:18, My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

Rom 5:19, For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Mat 5:6, Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

Someone who has been made righteous by the blood of Christ is not a sinner; in the sense of one who commits sin.

1Jo 3:9, Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1Jo 3:6, Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

1Jo 2:17, And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

One who has been made righteous by the blood of Christ is a sinner in that they have indwelling sin.

1Jo 1:8, If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Rom 7:18, For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

1Ti 1:15, This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

Indwelling sin can be rendered dead so that it no longer has any say over our behaviour.

Rom 6:6, Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Gal 5:24, And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Rom 7:8, But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
.
.
Rom 6:14, For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

I believe you are misunderstanding those scriptures. When we are redeemed in Christ we are cleansed of all sin.

 

[justbyfaith]

I believe you are misunderstanding those scriptures. When we are redeemed in Christ we are cleansed of all sin.

Do you not believe that this is in the practical sense?

 

[Enoch111]

I open up the first post for those who hold the opinion of "I am a sinner saved by grace."

Since both statements are true at one and the same time, there is no need for any debate. And if you think you are not a sinner saved by grace, you already have a problem. Paul called himself "the chiefest of sinners", yet he was head and shoulders above all others at that time.

 

[Amazed@grace]

Do you not believe that this is in the practical sense?

Forgive my ignorance. Come again?

 

[justbyfaith]

Since both statements are true at one and the same time, there is no need for any debate. And if you think you are not a sinner saved by grace, you already have a problem. Paul called himself "the chiefest of sinners", yet he was head and shoulders above all others at that time.

see post #6 ("I am a sinner saved by grace" vs. "I am made righteous through the blood of Christ.").

 

[justbyfaith]

Forgive my ignorance. Come again?

Does being cleansed of sin not mean that we are set free from the doing of sin in our lives?

 

[Amazed@grace]

Does being cleansed of sin not mean that we are set free from the doing of sin in our lives?

1st John 1:7-9, speaks of cleansing from all sin. And also seeks to correct the error that some may have arrived at in thinking they did not need to repent because they were not sinners.
The verse is not saying we are saved from sin but still have some within us.
I believe that would invalidate salvation's message itself, to impart the idea we are redeemed, but only partially, from sin. I don't believe Immanuel Jesus either taught that nor died to seal that with his blood.

 

[MatthewG]

"I am a sinner saved by grace" vs. "I am made righteous through the blood of Christ."

Hello justbyfaith,

Everyone is a sinner, who has had their sins paid for.

On the cross by the Lord Yeshua Christ, whom was resurrected three day later by God after being buried and seal in a tomb and dwelling in the heart of the earth for 3 days - in (she'ol/hell/grave) which Death, and Satan were conquered over at the resurrection of the Messiah.

Anyone who has a God given measure of faith to a person, that person is more than likely saved and has the spirit living with-in them.

Many people may struggle in faith due to life experiences, from growing up, family matters, school, friends, relationships, girlfriend/boyfriend wife/husband.

All the worries of the normal life can always place mental stress on us all the time from all the constant worry and everything about tomorrow, or whatever it may be going on at that time.

The only solution is to believe and turn towards God when you start hearing or reading more about the truth of the Gospel that leads a person to learning how the Lord Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, and the life.

The question is does a person desire to know truth in their life?

Learn about the Lord, whom created this world, and all of us people, who died on the cross, and everyone laughed and mocked him, always trying to figure out ways to trip him up, and lying about him to others, and saying he is mad, or he is of the devil.​

Here is my stance on the questions.

We are saved by grace through faith from God that is given from trusting and leaning on God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, and continue to learn about them, and make the choice to place them first, and love others. We are still sinners (not perfect - we can be mature (perfect) in our eternal life (Faith) with God and the Lord - by building relationship with them and trusting them to help us in our life!

We are transformed however from sinners -> We are transformed in to children of God (John 1:12) through believing on the Lords Yeshua Christ name.

 

[justbyfaith]

"I am a sinner saved by grace" vs. "I am made righteous through the blood of Christ."

Hello justbyfaith,

Everyone is a sinner, who has had their sins paid for.

On the cross by the Lord Yeshua Christ, whom was resurrected three day later by God after being buried and seal in a tomb and dwelling in the heart of the earth for 3 days - in (she'ol/hell/grave) which Death, and Satan were conquered over at the resurrection of the Messiah.

Anyone who has a God given measure of faith to a person, that person is more than likely saved and has the spirit living with-in them.

Many people may struggle in faith due to life experiences, from growing up, family matters, school, friends, relationships, girlfriend/boyfriend wife/husband.

All the worries of the normal life can always place mental stress on us all the time from all the constant worry and everything about tomorrow, or whatever it may be going on at that time.

The only solution is to believe and turn towards God when you start hearing or reading more about the truth of the Gospel that leads a person to learning how the Lord Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, and the life.

The question is does a person desire to know truth in their life?

Learn about the Lord, whom created this world, and all of us people, who died on the cross, and everyone laughed and mocked him, always trying to figure out ways to trip him up, and lying about him to others, and saying he is mad, or he is of the devil.​

Here is my stance on the questions.

We are saved by grace through faith from God that is given from trusting and leaning on God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, and continue to learn about them, and make the choice to place them first, and love others. We are still sinners (not perfect - we can be mature (perfect) in our eternal life (Faith) with God and the Lord - by building relationship with them and trusting them to help us in our life!

We are transformed however from sinners -> We are transformed in to children of God (John 1:12) through believing on the Lords Yeshua Christ name.

Hi @MatthewG,

I would refer you to post #6 ("I am a sinner saved by grace" vs. "I am made righteous through the blood of Christ.") of this thread.

 

[justbyfaith]

1st John 1:7-9, speaks of cleansing from all sin. And also seeks to correct the error that some may have arrived at in thinking they did not need to repent because they were not sinners.
The verse is not saying we are saved from sin but still have some within us.
I believe that would invalidate salvation's message itself, to impart the idea we are redeemed, but only partially, from sin. I don't believe Immanuel Jesus either taught that nor died to seal that with his blood.

The passage in question teaches that we still have indwelling sin, but have been delivered from the committing of it in the practical sense.