I don't want to talk about it!

[Marymog]

This thread is probably going to get highly electrified. I just ask before I pose a question,
to please, if the topic bothers you intensly and you want move along.. that's perfectly ok.
Don't feel you have to participate in something that makes you uncomfortable.

I am aware I put this in the Debate Forum and it needs to be debated or at least discussed.
It's basically what's tearing this country apart right now.
What is called Social Justice, Racism, and Equality for all.
Think of it as a 3-in-1 topic.

I am a 55 y/o white woman. I grew up in the city of Boston right when the bussing started.
I never been a racist. I never looked at a person's skin color. I always went by their character.
I'm not sure what Social Justice is, and I don't know what is meant by Equality for all.
I believe in the Constitution and that we are all equal in the eyes of God.
And that we are all under one law.
Now some say that only applies to some people, mainly white ones.
And though I know a little about the Jim crow laws and segregation..
I never studied it.

I talk to people in the live chats and they tell me, if I can't see color then I'm a racist.
If I can't see the injustice between white people and people of color, I'm a nazi.
They don't hold back either. They spit it at you.

Now maybe there some people that are in this Forum that is a person of color, or feels the racial injustice or inequality.
As a church, as the family of God, we need to work this out together.
I'm hoping to hear from all different points of view about what we can do
to mend this rift.
When we go to heaven, I don't think Jesus is checking skin colors at the door.
Just saying..

What say you?
MUCH LOVE
and prayers for this discussion
AMEN

HUGS

Hi Ziggy,

We are living in confusing times. We are told not to see color when we look at someone but then told to consider color when it comes time to hire for a job or for enrollment into college etc.

WE are not to consider race or sex when looking for the best candidate to fill a job at a private company but that is what Biden did when picking K. Harris.

Confusing times for sure....

 

[amadeus]

My daughter who is 5ft 4 had a friend, a guy who is 6ft 3, a very english guy, who was Nigerian by ancestry, but was also a basket ball player. The strange thing was they were very similar in personality and were great friends. Looking at them you would think they were in different worlds, but getting to know them, they are great exploring and powerful people.

And this summarises the problem. As individuals we all have a great potential, but when the look becomes the defining character, life has just left the room. It is obvious those who say "I am this, so I should demand respect" or "You are that, so you are worse than me" are two sides of the same coin. And unfortunately there are people who will look at anyone with a dark skin in a different light than someone with a lighter skin and exploit the effect.

Until as a society we recognise these people and totally reject their attitude it will continue to recur. It is truly sad when either side go to far, and I am very sympathetic to victims of this hatred and bigotry. We need to support the victims and shine a light on the stupidity of this way of thinking, that damages our future and theirs. God bless you

The skin color thing is most certainly not limited to the 'white' folks. When the Spanish conquistadores came into Mexico as time went by the changed culture of Mexico came to recognize classes of citizens primarily according to color of skin. The pure indios were the darkest and of the lowest class. The Mestizos were a mixed group of Spanish and Indian blood. The skin colors varied from very dark [not as black as most pure Africans who would have been rare in that country] to the very light pureblood Spaniards [who were usually darker than northern Europeans]. The ones in between in color were generally also in between in class and commonly there were other names for them according to how much above an Indio they were or how far below a pure Spaniard. But then consider the Spaniards:

For a period of time the Spaniards were a major world power and it was them that the upstart English [lighter in skin color usually than the Spanish] came hard against. During the wars with Spain that really diminished to nothing after the defeat of the Spanish Armada by the English there was a lot a propaganda put out by both sides. One label placed on the Spanish in general supposedly [according to some] by the English was "La Leyenda Negra" [The Black Legend], which really had little to nothing to do with people of black African blood (but did consider the darker skin as well as the dark deeds allegedly committed by the Spanish). The dirty tales told about the evil ways of the Spaniards and their mistreatment of captives, I guess worked well especially in scaring English commoners so they would more readily support the activities of their government and its armed forces against Spain. Who is very clean in any war? Skin color made it easier to identify the "enemy"!

 

[Brakelite]

There are many things at work here and its a complex issue.

1- racism has existed for millenniums.
2- it has always existed in the U.S.
3- its not going to stop
4- mans fallen/sinful nature it at work and its ingrained in mankind
5- only a relationship with Christ can break down those barriers( Galatians 3:28; 1 Corinthians 12:13; Colossians 3:11)
6- racism begins in the home so its the parents responsibility to teach our children from their youth Gods ways.
7- a society by its laws can never eliminate racism.
8- its a moral issue one that needs a change of heart that only Christ can set free.

hope this helps !!!

No. It didn't help. There are many unbelievers who have not a racist bone in their body. I know...I was one of them. You need to rewrite your thesis.

 

[DNB]

And what I said about, taking practice,I only meant to be playful,

My apologies, I didn't know. It sounded detrimental, so I replied accordingly, my mistake.

But then you attacked me. What did I do to you? Did I call you names? Did I call you a flake or naive? that kinda hurt.

I'm sorry! Again, just to explain, it was a little frustrating that you didn't acknowledge my post - I wasn't offended whatsoever, I just began to wonder who I was talking to, and what type of tone and rhetoric was required. i.e. were you being serious, or not?

I'm concerned about the 15- 20 year olds that are getting sucked into this. How can we reach them? Can we change them before it gets beyond control?

I imagine that on a microcosmic level, with the right influence, some people can, and will be changed for the better. For, again, there is not a single person out there with just a fraction of sense in their head, that can justify the principle of racism. Thus, as in all approaches to desist sin, wisdom is source of all righteousness. If all men are created in God's image, then all men are equal as far as all things pertaining to their corporeal aspect is concerned (all men are not equal in spirit). If a man can read and understand God's Word, and act in accordance with it, then he is worth something to God and to others.

The problem lies as in how to get this across to those who are still impressionable enough to take heed? I have absolutely no idea, for again, racism is not the only infestation out there, for your question is more properly stated 'how do we eradicate sin', as the same principle would apply to all evils in the world.

There was a time when TV had government funded commercials that taught road safety and etiquette. Our highways in Toronto, have electronic billboards that warn about road safety, also. I had heard that in Singapore, some TV commercials were directed at teaching children good behaviour. I think that these are good media to promote such awareness. Personally, I believe that schools, outside of their secular curriculums, should have a compulsory psychology course that is geared towards human cooperation and harmony, and the futility and consequences of selfishness and greed - how to make the world a better place.

Outside of that Ziggy, I don't believe that there is a magic formula, for again, your OP is just a microcosm of a much bigger and more pervasive issue - defiance to God.

 

[Ziggy]

I grew up in a white Irish/Italian district of Boston.
South Boston. aka Southie.
It was a known, that if you wasn't one of us, you didn't belong there.
When I was really little maybe 4 or 5. My Dad would bring a friend home from work with him.
He would bring his son and my brother who was just a couple years older than me would play with him.
They were about the same age. But little Cliffy was black. ( funny I still remember his name :) )
My Dad worked in a different part of Boston, a more diverse one.
My Dad never cared about the color or status of another.
He rubbed elbows with both beggars, we called them wino's and rich people who worked at Bloomingdale's.
My Dad delivered furniture, and sometimes he would take me on the weekend with him and Big Cliffy, to all these different residences.
We didn't have a car back then. We lived one street away from Broadway where all the stores were
so you didn't need one. So going on the "truck" was the only time I got out of this hmm bubble.
I don't remember anyone saying anything about my Dad having black company. But then again,
the neighbors, and we lived in a big apartment complex, never really had much to do with us anyways.

There was a girl my age lived two streets down. Her mom was on welfare. She had a couple older brothers too.
She was like an outcast like me. The "gang" of kids we grew up with were kind of selective. I don't think either of us felt like we fit in, even in our own little town. In our own backyard. I was friends with her until one day she stole my barbie doll clothes.
I didn't say anything. I just figured she liked them and wanted to borrow them.
Her mom came up to my mom and said I stole her girls barbie dolls clothes and demanded she go through my dolls clothes and take hers back.
Of course my mom gave me the dirty hairball look. I mean mom's don't lie right?
At the end of the day my dolls closet was about empty. I didn't care about the clothes.
I was just sad she lied. I thought she was my friend.

There was a greek family who moved in on the back street behind where I lived. They had a little boy.
He didn't speak any english, so I could only say hi with a wave. The other kids would yell at them and tell them to move.
They would chalk the stairs they lived on. And they avoided little jimmy, or they teased him. I just remember teaching him how to play hopscotch.
He had a nice smile too and giggled a lot. I didn't know why the others didn't like him. He was a likeable kid.
His mom would come out yelling in all these funny words and he would look at me and wave goodbye. It was time to go home.

I lived on the west side. Somewhere between poverty and low middle income. Dad worked hard six days a week putting food on the table and making sure the bills was paid. And what little we had Mom in her wisdom made sure everone was fed and had clean clothes.
These clothes weren't the designer kind. She would go to the salvation army and get used clothes and she would sew embroidery on them and make them look "cute" . I don't think the kids at school thought they was cute, they made fun of them. And I was kind of mad at my mom because she wouldn't buy me clothes like the other kids had. But I never said anything because I didn't want to hurt her feelings.

My parents faught a lot. My dad drank back then and all I remember is my dad sticking a sock in my brother's mouth cause he was crying. My mom grabbing a cast iron frying pan and hitting him over the head with it. I think it knocked him out because the next thing I remember is my mom hurridly getting me dressed and taking us three and running down the dark back stairs and climbing over a fence to get to my Aunt's house.
All I know is, I don't remember seeing dad with a beer ever again. And to this day he won't touch the stuff.

My two brothers faught a lot. The oldest was mommy's favorite, and the younger was the spitting image of his dad.
And they got to fightin one day in the kitchen. I was about eleven or so. David the older one grabbed a knife. My mom was working at the donut shop and I ran for the phone and Glenn tore the phone off the wall. I stood in between them screeming stop it stop it.
They told me to shut up but I wouldn't. I guess they figured I'd draw too much attention so they stopped fighting.
We lived on the third floor. They would fight in the hallway, My dad and my two brothers falling down the stairs punches flying.
I remember..

The Holidays were always ok. My mom was a real good cook. she loved to bake. And everything from scratch, right down to the 1/8th tsp. and no more. Zarex, not soda pop. Lots of meatloaf and potluck. She did the best she could, and she did good. and we were full.
My mom was a penny pincher though. She had to be feeding five and paying the bills on twenty five dollars a week.
My dad would take me to the market and we would buy all the fixings for icecream sundaes. including the whipped cream.
I remember my mom was mad about this. Some years later I asked her why. She thought it made her look like the bad guy and him the hero, because she wasn't able to buy the "fun" stuff. It's just how she felt.. somehow the words "not good enough" comes to mind.
I thought she was the best ever. She was my Best and ONLY friend. She died about 25 years ago from a heart attack.
I took a nosedive into the abyss. Even now as I write this... I miss her.

I was in the fifth grade when desegregation hit southie like a bomb. Stoning the busses of black kids coming into our schools. Fights in the coatrooms. People getting thrown out of bathroom windows. The next year, sixth grade, I spent mostly riding the subway trains hoping not to get caught by the constables. I learned how to balance pretty good, look ma, no hands. I met a lot of different characters there too,
I never got caught playing hooky. And I felt it was better than going to school and watching kids beat each other up. I'd had enough of that in my life already.
Part 1

 

[Ziggy]

When seventh grade came around, a lot of the turmoil had settled down and so I went back to school. Arthur was his name. He had the same name as my dad. Must of been six feet tall and black, oh boy was he the black. And he had this smile.. I just took right to him. He was always laughing and just happy. He lived in Dorchester, the next town over. That was kind of mixed but mostly minority. I used to go over his house after school and do homework. His mom was so nice. She'd make cookies and help us with our homework. He was a good friend. I tried to find him, but he's not in the phonebook.. aw well.

New Year's eve that year I got invited to a party by a friend of a friend. Her name was Lisa and her mom's name was Linda. Like mine only mine has a Y and not an I . I was thirteen, into that teenage rebellon stage. Not as bad as Glenn, he was hanging round with Kim's older brother's stealing cars and doing drugs and going to jail a lot. And David, buried his head into his ham radio and liked electronics and computers. I didn't see them much. And so when I got invited to this part.. sure, why not? Linda baught the beer. Kenny brought the pot. we didn't call it weed back then.
They only lived about a half mile from my house so I didn't have far to walk when it started snowing. There was a lot of people there but I can't see their faces and I don't know their names. I must of drank a lot, and I don't like beer. Never liked the smell since I was three and running down some back stairs with my mom. I don't know how much I drank, but I remeber saying I have to gp outside and get some air.
There were people hanging in the hallway, it was dark. I remember walking down the street.........
I woke up in some old abandoned house with broken windows and snow on the floor. It was really cold, that snow hitting my skin.
I collected myself and walked home. She asked how the party was, I said ok. But I wasn't feeling good and I thought I had a cold and wanted to lay down. escape.

I didn't know if I was going to go back to school in the eighth grade. Teacher's didn't think it was a good idea for young moms to be influencing the other girls with ideas of motherhood. I tried bringing the schoolwork home but life was getting busy. My daughter was one of those that didn't like to sleep much. A nap here a nap there. I was tired and gave up on school.
I stayed in touch with Arthur best I could. And somehow he would get my homework to me I think I met him after school. I don't quite remember. He introduced me to a friend of his, named Poppy. What a funny name. I didn't know his real name. Poppy was in the same class as Arthur and took the same classes I would of if I'd been going. Poppy, he's as tall but not as black as Arthur but pretty close.
He said he'd help with my homework if I wanted to go over his house after school. so I would go home take care of the baby, ask my mom to babysit while I went to a friends house to study. My mom was a fantastic grandma.. and a proud one too :)

I think it was in February it was still getting dark early after school. Poppy lived in Roxbury. That was where it was mostly black people. Or at least thats where a lot of the black kids at school said they lived. You can go anywhere in Boston except Southie, If you aint black, you aint wanted there. So I took the subway, got off at the stop that took me to Poppy's house. He lived about about a mile from it. He was coming to meet me so we could walk together. He wasn't at the station when I got there so I figured I just start walking and we would meet up along the way. I'd walked to his house many times, so I knew the way.
I was maybe a quarter mile from the station when somebody approached me. He was wearing dark clothes and a hood and he was black and I couldn't see his face. He pushed me up against this stone wall and told me he had a knife.. there was a couple walking by and I looked at them as much to say, can you help me, I'm in trouble here. But they just kept on walking. I had two choices.. live or die. I chose life.
I was kind of in a daze when I finally met up with Poppy walking down to meet me. He appologized for being late. I said no problem.
As we kept walking I broke down and told him what had happened. He brought me right to his mom. She was a good mom.
She called my dad and asked if he would come pick me up. He would bring the truck home from work so he was able to come get me.
He wasn't happy about me being in a black town at night. And now I understood why.. no girl should be walking any streets alone at night.
Don't matter what city your in. Not in your own town or someone else town. Because nowhere is safe.

I don't hate white men. I don't hate black men. I don't hate anybody. I just keep moving the best I can with as much love as I can.
Because I don't think I live in a bubble like some people do. I think I have a pretty good idea what goes on in this world. From the few experiences I've had. There is always more. But these ones stand out the most.
The world isn't perfet, I understand that.
But if it weren't for good moms and good dads helping out kids in bad situations.. I shudder to think what that world would look like.
Arthur and Poppy didn't have dads. They just had moms. Good moms.
That's my bubble.
Sorry it's so long. I feel old.
And these kids are just starting out
and I wonder, where are their moms?

HUGS

 

[Ziggy]

My apologies, I didn't know. It sounded detrimental, so I replied accordingly, my mistake.

I'm sorry! Again, just to explain, it was a little frustrating that you didn't acknowledge my post - I wasn't offended whatsoever, I just began to wonder who I was talking to, and what type of tone and rhetoric was required. i.e. were you being serious, or not?

I imagine that on a microcosmic level, with the right influence, some people can, and will be changed for the better. For, again, there is not a single person out there with just a fraction of sense in their head, that can justify the principle of racism. Thus, as in all approaches to desist sin, wisdom is source of all righteousness. If all men are created in God's image, then all men are equal as far as all things pertaining to their corporeal aspect is concerned (all men are not equal in spirit). If a man can read and understand God's Word, and act in accordance with it, then he is worth something to God and to others.

The problem lies as in how to get this across to those who are still impressionable enough to take heed? I have absolutely no idea, for again, racism is not the only infestation out there, for your question is more properly stated 'how do we eradicate sin', as the same principle would apply to all evils in the world.

There was a time when TV had government funded commercials that taught road safety and etiquette. Our highways in Toronto, have electronic billboards that warn about road safety, also. I had heard that in Singapore, some TV commercials were directed at teaching children good behaviour. I think that these are good media to promote such awareness. Personally, I believe that schools, outside of their secular curriculums, should have a compulsory psychology course that is geared towards human cooperation and harmony, and the futility and consequences of selfishness and greed - how to make the world a better place.

Outside of that Ziggy, I don't believe that there is a magic formula, for again, your OP is just a microcosm of a much bigger and more pervasive issue - defiance to God.

Thank You DNB
HUGS

 

[amadeus]

The whole discussion....the concept....the inadequate terms....the offensive terms. I have served in the military and I know for a fact that they call each other the "N" word. It is all a power play to control what you say. There is really no example like it in our culture. There is an underlying desire to control what people say. They prey on people of conscience and the people that press it, have none. Power play. There is an old western called "Blazing Saddles" they cannot hardly play that anymore. It does not matter they want the power, it is intended to intimidate and control. It does not matter if it is here on this forum or on TV or in media if you type out the "N" word or say it, the whole world comes down on you. It can ruin your reputation and or your business, it can get you fired...and that is the point, they think that it is cool. Power play.

The fact is, very few white people are white and very black people are black. I discussed this in another thread. It does not matter what phrase you use they can turn it around and accuse you of racism, if they do not like you or whatever reason they have....could be a whim or a bad day or if you are debating them and they are losing they can pull the race card out. They can assault a mom with kids in a parking lot and when the cops come they can say the mom called them a bad name and the crime is forgotten. Why is this so? It gets down to the fact they like the power play and they do not like to be identified in anyway as different.

Person of color...colored....black....negro....African American...dark skinned...None of these are intended to offend but..it does not matter, they can turn it around, act offended and accuse you of being a racist. Part of the issue has it roots in Marxism or communism. Barack Hussein Obama....did you know that the media was not allowed to say or print his middle name because it related to Saddam Hussein. Hussein is a common middle eastern name, but on a whim they were allowed to control what we say and print...The first step to mind control is controlling the media, speech, and language. There is a host of derogatory terms that can be used for people of color and most whites are not going to use them. We talk to people in public, as school, at work, or black friends,most people are not going to use derogatory terms.

On the other hand, people of color can call whites just about anything they want and get away with it, in public, on TV, in the media...and we take it in stride. What does that mean? They do not like that either, because it insinuates that we are more intelligent and or more civilized. They are their own worst enemy, because they get us in a position that, we know that there is no way that we cannot offend them and at any point they could go berserk over nothing. So some whites avoid them. It just like these murderous mobs, they have hurt the social standing of the people of color in general...they have harmed the social standing of the average black person that works, own a home, a car and send their kids to school. That is not fair, but the ramifications are visual and stand in reality. Prejudice is not avoiding homicidal manics. After all this how can you tell if a person of color participated in those riots....Do you want to have them in your neighborhood? Do you want your children around them? Do you want to work with them as fellow employees? Would you want to hire them?

In St. Louis and other big cities black crime dwarfs anything the mafia ever did. Men, women, and children are being killed at a rate of 3 or 4 a day, in each city, and it has been that way for years. Children are shot in their front yards and in their homes and in their cribs. The point here is not to give in to people controlling what you say, they have no right. Unless you are using an obvious derogatory or demeaning term...it is not their right to control what you say or print. We have to stop coddling this type of behavior.

The topic of prejudice is very involved, but be sure to know that there are aspects of it the blacks would not want to give up because they would be required and treated as equals and the whole race card and or chip on their shoulder would have no power.

Things have turned around in the sense of what goes around, comes around. In the past the black people were slaves. Later they were technically free but still for the most part second class citizens. White people could and did call them derogatory names and worse up to and including punishment because they dared to demand their rights or even without any making any demands being punished because they were black. Equality? It still too often was not there ever though things were was improving in places.

Now it is seemingly leaning heavily in exactly the opposite direction. Fair? It wasn't fair to the black man before and it is not white man in accord with what @Grailhunter has written... The problem on either side of the apparent turn around has always been selfish man. The solution, the only real solution, is to be found in God. Most people, black or white, are not going for it. so what else should we expect? If we are only willing to do the right thing when the other guy, be he black or white or somewhere in between, agrees to it, we will waiting for the rest of our lives! Let us rather do it right ourselves according to God as best we can without expecting anyone else to do the same:

"If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land." II Chron 7:14

Who are God's people now? Who is called by His name now? Who is humbling themselves now? Who is praying now? Who is seeking His face now? Who is turning from their wicked ways now?

"From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?" John 6:66-67

 

[amadeus]

Today I learned that "lucid" dreaming means like "guided" dreaming where you know what you are doing in a dream. I thought it just meant detailed dreaming.

I just use that as an example, because I realize how important terms are, but like there is "person of color" term, then there is the noun to describe a person place or thing. It is sad people use that as a bad term. It "confuses" the communication when people who are not racist come along. Which I believe is a lot more these days.

Communication is one of man's greatest difficulties. We all apparently speak English here, but all most certainly do not always communicate well with each other. Could the following verses ever apply to this situation?

If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God." I Cor 14:27-28

 

[Waiting on him]

Things have turned around in the sense of what goes around, comes around. In the past the black people were slaves. Later they were technically free but still for the most part second class citizens. White people could and did call them derogatory names and worse up to and including punishment because they dared to demand their rights or even without any making any demands being punished because they were black. Equality? It still too often was not there ever though things were was improving in places.

Now it is seemingly leaning heavily in exactly the opposite direction. Fair? It wasn't fair to the black man before and it is not white man in accord with what @Grailhunter has written... The problem on either side of the apparent turn around has always been selfish man. The solution, the only real solution, is to be found in God. Most people, black or white, are not going for it. so what else should we expect? If we are only willing to do the right thing when the other guy, be he black or white or somewhere in between, agrees to it, we will waiting for the rest of our lives! Let us rather do it right ourselves according to God as best we can without expecting anyone else to do the same:

"If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land." II Chron 7:14

Who are God's people now? Who is called by His name now? Who is humbling themselves now? Who is praying now? Who is seeking His face now? Who is turning from their wicked ways now?

"From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?" John 6:66-67

Lol John, some hard questions in you post, me personally I’m not really very certain as of to now, but as to then I know for very certain. I was born an animal, raised by animals, propagated and procreated two animals. All carnality can do is perpetuate what it knows and is, but Christ and only Christ quickens a new creature.

 

[Waiting on him]

Bottom line the dead need a Saviour, if there’s only darkness then only darkness will be perpetuated.

 

[Ziggy]

Hi Ziggy,

We are living in confusing times. We are told not to see color when we look at someone but then told to consider color when it comes time to hire for a job or for enrollment into college etc.

WE are not to consider race or sex when looking for the best candidate to fill a job at a private company but that is what Biden did when picking K. Harris.

Confusing times for sure....

It's on purpose.
They do it on purpose.
All you can do is think for yourself.
Be who you are and not what they want you to be.
HUGS

 

[Waiting on him]

It's on purpose.
They do it on purpose.

HUGS

What I see is animal, and it comes in all colors and flavors.

 

[Grailhunter]

Things have turned around in the sense of what goes around, comes around. In the past the black people were slaves. Later they were technically free but still for the most part second class citizens. White people could and did call them derogatory names and worse up to and including punishment because they dared to demand their rights or even without any making any demands being punished because they were black. Equality? It still too often was not there ever though things were was improving in places.

Now it is seemingly leaning heavily in exactly the opposite direction. Fair? It wasn't fair to the black man before and it is not white man in accord with what @Grailhunter has written... The problem on either side of the apparent turn around has always been selfish man. The solution, the only real solution, is to be found in God. Most people, black or white, are not going for it. so what else should we expect? If we are only willing to do the right thing when the other guy, be he black or white or somewhere in between, agrees to it, we will waiting for the rest of our lives! Let us rather do it right ourselves according to God as best we can without expecting anyone else to do the same:

"If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land." II Chron 7:14

Who are God's people now? Who is called by His name now? Who is humbling themselves now? Who is praying now? Who is seeking His face now? Who is turning from their wicked ways now?

"From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?" John 6:66-67

Wise words as usual Amadeus

 

[amadeus]

It's 4am here on the eastcoast. Before I came her a little over a week ago I would be looking for live streams right now on Ytube and facebook for the so-called "press", that run around with cameras video taping the protesters/ rioters. There is a live chat. I watch the conversation and I listen to the crowd, the chants, the speeches they make. I can only interact with the people in the chat and the one video taping.
I had a conversation one night i was typing, they was reading and talking back into the camera answering me. A real one on one.
I asked if they thought of getting into the media industry? Instead of chasing after crowds in the middle of the night, would they like to do it for a career? Why they felt they needed to be the one doing it? Just conversation. No accusations, no anger. And then hell broke out, someone threw a molatav cocktail and that was the end of the conversation. I tried to find the stream again. I don't know where they went or maybe under another channel.
Sometimes when you can't talk because all they do is spit vitrolic acid. I turn down the volume and I just pray over the crowd I see on the screen.

Sometime I see conversations where a protester will get it, they connect the dots. And they walk away.
That's where I find that hope.
If we can just reach one more...
It's been a long year..
I'm just tired..
I can't sleep.
aw well..
HUGS
Thank You

And often that is how it is!

"...all with one voice about the space of two hours cried out, Great is Diana of the Ephesians." Acts 19:34

 

[Ziggy]

What I see is animal, and it comes in all colors and flavors.

Like these brute beasts ...



2Pe 2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
2Pe 2:13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
2Pe 2:14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
2Pe 2:15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

 

[Waiting on him]

Like these brute beasts ...



2Pe 2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
2Pe 2:13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
2Pe 2:14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
2Pe 2:15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

Ecclesiastes 3:18 KJV
[18] I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.
I tell you I’ve seen it. Have you?

 

[Waiting on him]

I have a question, if this condition wasn’t present with all, would we need a savior?

 

[amadeus]

Lol John, some hard questions in you post, me personally I’m not really very certain as of to now, but as to then I know for very certain. I was born an animal, raised by animals, propagated and procreated two animals. All carnality can do is perpetuate what it knows and is, but Christ and only Christ quickens a new creature.

Consider that in Noah's Ark there were a whole bunch of clean and, yes, also unclean beasts [animals]. Lots of those around today even in churches. The unclean need to be first cleaned. The beasts, even clean beasts, need to be killed so they can be elevated to very top with our Lord. But... beasts try to climb up without being cleaned or killed. They cannot ever make it that way! Where we hope to attain to... I think that beasts are not allowed at all.

"Wisdom hath builded her house, she hath hewn out her seven pillars:
She hath killed her beasts;... " Prov 9:1-2

And the Way to the top is to start at the bottom or the lowest place:

"When thou art bidden of any man to a wedding, sit not down in the highest room; lest a more honourable man than thou be bidden of him;
And he that bade thee and him come and say to thee, Give this man place; and thou begin with shame to take the lowest room.
But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee.
For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted." Luke 14:8-11

 

[Ziggy]

I have a question, if this condition wasn’t present with all, would we need a savior?

Was it in the plan?
God is Saviour.
Why did he create man to need him?

interesting...
HUGS