Soverign Grace
Well-Known Member
Really? So maybe it's just a language talking to God - I don't know. I haven't looked into it too much as I generally don't use it much.
I witnessed someone speaking in tongues today
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Really? So maybe it's just a language talking to God - I don't know. I haven't looked into it too much as I generally don't use it much.
Jeff Wiebe
Member
I’m sure God knows all language. He knows your intentions and thoughts so I guess he migjt interpret the babbling that way. Or Satan is interfering with the prayer and God hears jibberish. God can know your thoughts, I don’t think satan can so he likes it when you try and pray but it comes out jibberish. Today’s tongues is demonic in my opinion.
Jeff Wiebe
Member
When I hear people pray in todays tongues it comes out gibberish. Proven fact when comparing the gibberish to a known language they have always come out false. If one gets taken over by the spirit, is it really Gods spirit? Satan is spirit to. If you don't understand what you are saying, how can you possibly know?
An interesting study on line is the similarities of voodoo tongues and Charismatic tongues and their origins.
And the doubters of Peter's day at Pentecost undoubtedly heard just what you heard, and claimed the Apostles "were drunk."
And what exactly is a demon and how is it that sincere believers end up speaking the words of such demons?
Were the words of Jesus demonic when he spoke parables and most of his listeners did not understand God's message in those parables?
Why would speaking in tongues be different?
What professor of human languages knows the mind and ways of God so well as to correctly conclude that God speaks through no one today in an unknown tongue?
Why are our babies of flesh not considered demonic when they speak only a babble rather than rattling off the clearly understood works of the educated professor of languages?
Why do you believe anything written in the scriptures?
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." Isaiah 55:8-9
Jeff Wiebe
Member
Thing is, the apostles were speaking to people through Gods gift. People now days think they speak to God through Gods gift. Completely different. So far I haven't heard one tongues speaker able to interpret another. Its not just me as a doubter, its believers too.
Jeff Wiebe
Member
A parable is spoken in a known language, very different. Babies are unlearned. They have no language.
What did Peter stand up and tell the doubters was happening? (Hint: He referred them to the book of Joel.)
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
Two points:
It is Holy Spirit not Holy Ghost.
Blasphemy Holy Spirit is when one refuses to listen to the Holy Spirit anymore.
Paul was guilty of murder but Christ still spoke to him and appointed him to be, I believe, most powerful and influential apostle.
There have been plenty of people who post God, meaning rejecting what the Holy Spirit said, that later were saved. The Holy Spirit did not give up on them.
Don't get too carried away. I can think of at least a dozen verses where "Ghost" is used to indicate God's Spirit.
What do those things have to do with your declaration that tongues are demonic?
For us the tongues are parables which require interpreters. For Jesus and the parables He spoke, He was also the interpreter.
Many Christians [?] who speak in babbling tongues are still babies, some of them long after they should have learned to communicate with God. This is like an adult human being who is only able to speak baby talk and cannot communicate at all with most human adults.
All of these things relate to the types and shadows of God's reality which fill the scripture but which are babble to those who cannot and/or are not interested in understanding. The whole of the written scripture in a sense is a type or a shadow or a parable [set of parables] requiring interpretation. In the OT , the prophets and priests were usually the interpreters. In the gospels Jesus was the interpreter. For the rest of the NT and for us, the Holy Spirit is the interpreter.
I guess there are not many messages in tongues with interpretations given these days, but believe me they do exist. That they are not given more frequently than they are is likely the fault of the doubters among believers.
My wife has been blessed with both sides of that gift. That is, she speaks messages in unknown tongues and she also interprets messages in unknown tongues into the common language [English]. for the benefit of the listeners.
When she was not reading the scriptures daily as she now has been doing for some years, I can remember her interpreting a message into English which quoted verbatim and in an accurate paraphrases from the written scripture. I know she did not memorize them, because at that time she often had never even have read them before much less memorized them.
Jeff Wiebe
Member
I would be very skeptical if a tongues speaker actually interpreted another. How could any one prove it? God is not the author of confusion. Todays tongues is exactly that. Confusion.
Jeff Wiebe
Member
Would she be interpreting a known language just not known to her, or completely unknown babbling?
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
I do believe tongues are given but not in the Pentecostal way.
Something that happened years ago is of interest here.
A young man fluently spoke an obscure foreign language went to a Pentecostal church that was heavy into tongues with interpreters.
At the right time He stood up and made a long statement in that language.
An interpreters immediately jumped up and interpreted. But it did not even faintly resemble what he said.
Something else to consider is Cults that practice tongues. They cannot be legitimate.
Mormons practiced tongues. No way those were from God.
Something that happened years ago is of interest here.
A young man fluently spoke an obscure foreign language went to a Pentecostal church that was heavy into tongues with interpreters.
At the right time He stood up and made a long statement in that language.
An interpreters immediately jumped up and interpreted. But it did not even faintly resemble what he said.
Something else to consider is Cults that practice tongues. They cannot be legitimate.
Mormons practiced tongues. No way those were from God.
A person who is reading the Bible and praying [talking] to God regularly [daily?] should know His voice as opposed the voice of a stranger, should he not? If he does not, perhaps he is not one of His sheep...!
"But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers." John 10:2-5
There are tongues talkers who are still babies in the Lord and therefore their word are babble, which means confusion. This is why is absolutely essential for followers of God to increase or grow. Jesus did!
"And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man." Luke 2:52
For us the growth or increase should be of the "new man" of which Paul wrote while the "old man" should be on the way out. John the Baptist spoke about it here:
"He must increase, but I must decrease." John 3:30
Who do we suppose the new man and the old man in us of which he speaks?
To babble mean to confuse. Without an interpretation in the church it would be confusion which as you indicated is NOT God nor of God:
"But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God." I Cor 14:28
My wife remains silent in the church unless she is giving a message to be interpreted or is interpreting a given message.
My own gift is found in the latter part of that verse, "let him speak to himself, and to God", and I do daily during my Bible reading and prayer time.
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
Just a thought.
Tongue at Pentecost were given as a sign, not a prophetic revelation.
For revelation better gift is the gift of knowledge and prophecy. Neither meaning a prophetic level like the apostles. Insight into relevant issues the day and people.
So people standing up in the church speaking in tongues is pretty meaningless I believe. Never what the gift was intended for.
Tongue at Pentecost were given as a sign, not a prophetic revelation.
For revelation better gift is the gift of knowledge and prophecy. Neither meaning a prophetic level like the apostles. Insight into relevant issues the day and people.
So people standing up in the church speaking in tongues is pretty meaningless I believe. Never what the gift was intended for.
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