I'd like to have a calm, rational conversation about End Times...anyone?

[101G]

Not at all being rude, but would this not make Jesus quite scizophrenic? I mean, He does talk to, pray to, reference, cry out to, and praise the Father quite often, would this not make Him either crazy or very arrogant?

GINOLJC, to Mjh29, first thanks for the reply. no not at all you're being rude, maybe ignorant of the word of God, but that's ok. likewise not being rude, I like to put to the test one's doctoral beliefs by the scriptures, so without a doubt there will not be any rudeness.

the Revelation 1:1 test. let's see if your doctrine stand up to the test. Revelation 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John".'

Mjh29, here is the test. in Revelation 1:1 who sent his angel unto John?. read the verse again. was it the one who you say is the "FATHER", or the one whom you calls the "SON". but before you answer, I suggest you read Revelation 22:6 first. because the angel clearly tells us who sent him.

I'll be waiting for your answer, and the we can quickly clear up this Father and Son misunderstanding. I'll be waiting for your answer.

 

[Mjh29]

GINOLJC, to Mjh29, first thanks for the reply. no not at all you're being rude, maybe ignorant of the word of God, but that's ok. likewise not being rude, I like to put to the test one's doctoral beliefs by the scriptures, so without a doubt there will not be any rudeness.

the Revelation 1:1 test. let's see if your doctrine stand up to the test. Revelation 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John".'

Mjh29, here is the test. in Revelation 1:1 who sent his angel unto John?. read the verse again. was it the one who you say is the "FATHER", or the one whom you calls the "SON". but before you answer, I suggest you read Revelation 22:6 first. because the angel clearly tells us who sent him.

I'll be waiting for your answer, and the we can quickly clear up this Father and Son misunderstanding. I'll be waiting for your answer.

Who was Jesus praying to when he said 'not my will, but thy will be done'? (And yes I answered a question with a question)

 

[Mjh29]

And the mystery of the trinity is that Jesus is God in the flesh, yet though God is one God, He exists in perfect harmony in a trinity, each person separate and inseparable.


If human minds could fully understand it, or wouldn't be a very God-like quality, would it?

 

[101G]

Who was Jesus praying to when he said 'not my will, but thy will be done'? (And yes I answered a question with a question)

thanks, the Lord Jesus was speaking to his Diversified self, because he is shared in flesh bone with blood/another nature, just as the Holy Ghost who is God that intercedes on our behalf in prayer. now when you answer my Question then you will see clearly, so your answer please

 

[101G]

And the mystery of the trinity is that Jesus is God in the flesh, yet though God is one God, He exists in perfect harmony in a trinity, each person separate and inseparable.

ok, let's see if this is true, please answer the Revelation 1:1 question

 

[Mjh29]

thanks, the Lord Jesus was speaking to his Diversified self, because he is shared in flesh bone with blood/another nature, just as the Holy Ghost who is God that intercedes on our behalf in prayer. now when you answer my Question then you will see clearly, so your answer please

I already did. Jesus is God, as is the Spirit. Yet each person is different. I could ask you the same kind of question: who raised Christ from the dead? (There are references to each person of the trinity raising Christ)

 

[101G]

I already did. Jesus is God, as is the Spirit. Yet each person is different. I could ask you the same kind of question: who raised Christ from the dead? (There are references to each person of the trinity raising Christ)

you did not, you said that the Lord Jesus is not the Father, I asked who sent his angel, was it the Son or the Father. please answer

 

[Mjh29]

He is the Father. Yet He is separate from him.
So yes and no

 

[Mjh29]

The fundamental problem is that you are trying to understand something outside of human reason o9r understanding. One does not simply 'reason out' God's incomprehensible qualities.
Even with Scripture, there are some things God has chosen not to completely reveal to us about Himself

 

[101G]

He is the Father. Yet He is separate from him.
So yes and no

so are you saying that the Father sent "his" angel to John YES or NO. remember Revelation 22:6. answer please.

 

[101G]

The fundamental problem is that you are trying to understand something outside of human reason o9r understanding. One does not simply 'reason out' God's incomprehensible qualities.
Even with Scripture, there are some things God has chosen not to completely reveal to us about Himself

this is a simple YES or NO question. so let's keep it simple, ok. now once more was it the Father or the Son/Jesus who sent "HIS" angel to John. please answer the question.

 

[Mjh29]

To be honest, I dont even see the relevance of the question at hand. Jesus IS God, yet he is a separate person. So one could say that Jesus sent the angel or that God sent the angel, either way. But that does not prove or disprove that God and Jesus cant be one and yet exist in separate persons. Who was God talking to when He said "Let US make man in OUR image?" Himself? In the plural?

 

[101G]

To be honest, I dont even see the relevance of the question at hand. Jesus IS God, yet he is a separate person. So one could say that Jesus sent the angel or that God sent the angel, either way. But that does not prove or disprove that God and Jesus cant be one and yet exist in separate persons. Who was God talking to when He said "Let US make man in OUR image?" Himself? In the plural?

No it is relevant to the question at hand, because you said, "but would this not make Jesus quite scizophrenic? I mean, He does talk to, pray to, reference, cry out to, and praise the Father quite often, would this not make Him either crazy or very arrogant?". well let's see if this is true. because you said that the Lord Jesus is a separate PERSON from the father. and the Revelation 1:1 question will prove that he is not a separate PERSON from the Father. now your answer please. understand there is no math involved.
is it A. the Father who sent his angel. or B. the son Jesus.
if you cannot answer just say so.

 

[Mjh29]

On the contrary, I have answered many times, just not in terms a finite, time-space centered mind like our tends to like to accept. Jesus is God, yet incomprehensibly separate from him in person. This is why Jesus is not a schizophrenic. He is God, yet separate in person, as is the Trinity. If you would like to shake this doctrine that has stood for hundreds of years, i would suggest using more than one verse.

 

[Mjh29]

Your disagreement is not just with me, it is with church leaders the world over for the whole history of christianity. And as i previously said, anyone can quote one or two verses and make them say what they want.
"David had an affair with Bathsheba, yet God blesses her with Solomon, so that must mean God is ok with affairs, right?"
Of course we'd say wrong because God clearly judges David for his sins, and saying otherwise would be taking verses out of context. We need to look at the bible as a whole to gain firm doctrine, not ride on 2 or 3 verses.

 

[101G]

On the contrary, I have answered many times, just not in terms a finite, time-space centered mind like our tends to like to accept. Jesus is God, yet incomprehensibly separate from him in person. This is why Jesus is not a schizophrenic. He is God, yet separate in person, as is the Trinity. If you would like to shake this doctrine that has stood for hundreds of years, i would suggest using more than one verse.

seeing that you cannot answer the Revelation 1:1 question, ok, how about Revelation 1:4 & 5, Revelation 1:4 "John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; 5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood"

so Mjh29, is this three persons that this letter is from or one person?. please answer

 

[Mjh29]

This is God in the Holy Trinity, 3 persons in 1 being, to whom be power and glory forever and ever Amen.
Why?
( btw Revelation is known to be pictural literature )

 

[101G]

Your disagreement is not just with me, it is with church leaders the world over for the whole history of christianity. And as i previously said, anyone can quote one or two verses and make them say what they want.

again ERROR on your part. no scripture is to anyone's interpretation. 2 Peter 1:20 "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation".

I'll be waiting for your answer to Revelation 1:4 & 5. and please note Revelation is prophecy, so NO INTERPERTATIONS

 

[Mjh29]

This is God in the Holy Trinity, 3 persons in 1 being, to whom be power and glory forever and ever Amen.
Why?
( btw Revelation is known to be pictural literature )

 

[101G]

This is God in the Holy Trinity, 3 persons in 1 being, to whom be power and glory forever and ever Amen.
Why?

Glad you said that. let the scriptures tell us if it's one person or three as you say is a trinity. remember your trinity states that the Father is not the Son and not the holy Spirit, and vice versa.
in your doctrine, you would believe this,
Person #1. “from him which is, and which was, and which is to come”. most would say this is the father, right.
Person #2. “from the seven Spirits which are before his throne”. most would say this is the Holy Spirit, right.
Person #3. “from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness”. this is a no-brainier here, the Son, right, let's see what the bible say.
A. “he who which is, and which was, and which is to come”, is the Alpha and Omega, Revelation 1:8 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
so the "which is, and which was, and which is to come" is the Alpha and the omega
well let's see who this Alpha and Omega is Revelation 22:13 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last". well you have a problem right now. because the "which is, and which was, and which is to come" is the Alpha and Omega, who is the "First and the Last". and the First and the Last is the Lord Jesus let's see. Revelation 1:17 "And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death".

Person #one is eliminated, because the "which is, and which was, and which is to come" is the First and the Last who is the Lord JESUS.

now let's eliminated your PERSON #2. Revelation 3:1 "And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead". who is the "HE" here? the Lord Jesus. he have the seven Spirits of God, let's be sure, Revelation 5:6 "And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth". that's the Lord Jesus.

Person #two is eliminated, because the seven Spirits of God is the Lord Jesus. and to be sure, notice every letter written to the seven churches is from the Lord Jesus right. well see how each letter end. " He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches", yes the Lord Jesus is the Holy Spirit.
just read those letters for yourself.
and Person #3 the Faithful witness that is left. which is the the seven Spirits of God
and is the which is, and which was, and which is to come" who is the Alpha and Omega, who is the "First and the Last".

so this letter is from ONE PERSON ONLY. so your answer is in ERROR, and a false doctrine. now if you need to go to the OT for proof I can do that too.

PS, since you could not answer the Revelation 1:1 question I'll do it for you. it is the Lord Jesus who sent his angel to John. as the angel said in Revelation 22:6 it5 was the Lord God of the holy prophets who sent him. and the holy prophets are in the OT as well as the NT. the Lord Jesus is the ONLY GOD in the OT and the NT. in the OT he was not diversified yet, until he came and manifested himself in flesh. so yes I refute your doctrine, but not you the person, because I know you're still in darkness. hope this have been some light to you.