If all children go to Heaven and if Hell is forever then it seems that it's GOOD when children die, right?
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Don't think! God, Himself said it in Psalms 58:3-8.
Or, are you saying you know more than God?
Hahaha, God and I will be laughing, together.
To God Be The Glory
Saving a child, due to future condemnation, would provoke the child to wrath - we are told not to do that (letters, from memory).
You sound like you want an intellectual way to understand Salvation - I'm not saying you're wrong, but the Bible does say God makes the wisdom of Man look foolish.
face2face
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No, God didn't say babies burn in Hell forever and ever. You're making it up!
No, I'm saying YOU don't even know what God said.
You'll be laughing with God while babies are in Hell? If your God is so WICKED that He burns babies in Hell forever and laughs about babies in Hell then He wouldn't hesitate to LIE to you!
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Lambano
Well-Known Member
I agree.
Think about it.
35 They built the high places of Baal that are in the Valley of Ben-hinnom to make their sons and their daughters pass through the fire to molech, which I had not commanded them, nor had it entered My mind that they should do this abomination, .... (Jeremiah 32:35)
All human beings are born enslaved to the power of Sin. The Psalm 53 and Psalm 58 references make that clear, as does Romans. "The doctrine of Depravity is the one Biblical dogma that is empirically verifiable" (G.K. Chesterton). So, somewhere along the way, the concept of eternal burning transitions from repugnant when applied to babies (and children) to acceptable when applied to a man. This makes the concept of "Reaching the age of accountability" logically necessary. One second before, it's an abomination. One second afterwards, it's "justice".
Now, maybe you can understand where Patrick is coming from?
I quit taking Patrick seriously when he said Jesus isn't coming back.
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Hobie
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Not all children will be saved, the scriptures does not have that. The faith of the believing parents, in the mercy and grace of God, will cover the children, as when God sent His judgments upon the first-born of the Egyptians. He will differentiate between the children of the wicked and those that are the children of His saints as He knows all and His judgement is true.
Exodus 11:1-7
1 And the Lord said unto Moses, Yet will I bring one plague more upon Pharaoh, and upon Egypt; afterwards he will let you go hence: when he shall let you go, he shall surely thrust you out hence altogether.
2 Speak now in the ears of the people, and let every man borrow of his neighbour, and every woman of her neighbour, jewels of silver and jewels of gold.
3 And the Lord gave the people favour in the sight of the Egyptians. Moreover the man Moses was very great in the land of Egypt, in the sight of Pharaoh's servants, and in the sight of the people.
4 And Moses said, Thus saith the Lord, About midnight will I go out into the midst of Egypt:
5 And all the firstborn in the land of Egypt shall die, from the first born of Pharaoh that sitteth upon his throne, even unto the firstborn of the maidservant that is behind the mill; and all the firstborn of beasts.
6 And there shall be a great cry throughout all the land of Egypt, such as there was none like it, nor shall be like it any more.
7 But against any of the children of Israel shall not a dog move his tongue, against man or beast: that ye may know how that the Lord doth put a difference between the Egyptians and Israel.
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
St. SteVen said:
1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
And the NIV translators put in the verse, that's not my doing.
1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
From my perspective, Jesus paid the death penalty on our behalf. The term, "atoning sacrifice" is fine by me,
And the NIV translators put in the verse, that's not my doing.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
Never said the above. It was your assunption. However; all babies unsaved end up in hell just as He said in Psalms 58:3-8. Notwithstanding, that hell is NOT a place of torment that burns forever and ever (Revelation 20:12-21:4).
To God Be The Glory
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
Interesting comment.
Does that make you an Annihilationist, or a Christian Universalist?
You have obviously abandoned Damnationism. Kudos.
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Lambano
Well-Known Member
Limbo?
“Limbo, in Catholic theology, was believed to be the border place between heaven and hell where those souls who died without being baptised, though not condemned to punishment, were deprived of eternal happiness with God in heaven…. the supposed abode of the souls of unbaptized infants, and of the just who died before Christ's coming.”
“Limbo, in Catholic theology, was believed to be the border place between heaven and hell where those souls who died without being baptised, though not condemned to punishment, were deprived of eternal happiness with God in heaven…. the supposed abode of the souls of unbaptized infants, and of the just who died before Christ's coming.”
You can take Revelation 20:12-21:4 for what it's worth. I was merely tying the terms, "for ever" to mean "condition" which would been a better translation than "annihilation," "universalism," or "damnation" as you have suggested. I've also said that there will no one be in "hell" and the "lake of fire" since God will destroy both at the end....Revelation 21:4.
YOU said, "Then you can't trust such a wicked God!"
ONLY to your "mind's-eye." What audacity to speak of a Holy God!!!
After all what he has done for you that is if you are His child.
To God Be The Glory
Our belief that infants go to heaven is not a guarantee. Pastor's use that viewpoint to help partents during child loss.
Aren't you one who believes God burns babies in Hell?
Before I answer, please ignore the "LIKE."
Now, read and weep: Romans 9:9-27....
09 For this [is] the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.
10 And not only [this]; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, [even] by our father Isaac;
11 (For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14 ¶ What shall we say then? [Is there] unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 [What] if God, willing to shew [his] wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
26 And it shall come to pass, [that] in the place where it was said unto them, Ye [are] not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:
To God Be The Glory
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